Mac or PC

[winmacguy]

Funny, I never have that problem. I also do not believe that Macs are 100% bug free.





And besides, when my rellies have problems and I fix them, I get shouted to a free lunch.

They aren't.

I think it is the fact that computers are not built for dummies is part of the reason that a lot of people regard a PC as being a tool that they have to use as part of their day job as opposed to a something that they want to use in order to create stuff on - which you might notice has suddenly become part of the new Vista PR blurb.

[Metla]

So what additional software choices are you referring to Metla (aside from games) ?

I think it is the fact that computers are not built for dummies is part of the reason that a lot of people regard a PC as being a tool that they have to use as part of their day job as opposed to a something that they want to use in order to create stuff on - which you might notice has suddenly become part of the new Vista PR blurb.

Alright, You have to be taking the piss, no one with an ounce of intelligence would utter either of these comments.

You not going to suck me into pointing you at any of the download sites with their hundreds of thousands of PC titles (excluding games) let alone a price list from a software supplier.

As to the second comment, For every Mac being used to "create stuff on" there are multiple thousands of PC's being used for the same task, whether it be amateur or professional output.

[winmacguy]

http://www.versiontracker.com/windows/
Mac version on the site as well.
I know you can create as much "cool" stuff on a PC in any particular field of Design, engineering, TV etc It is just that a lot of designers and a growing number of home users prefer Macs and the bundled software that they come with. (as well as the 3rd party Mac software)

[motorbyclist]

Dells are not real computers? why is that they feel real, they look real.
would you like your prices compared to what little 17 year old johnny can put together in there back yard.
No I wouldn't expect many people on this forum to buy a mac and there is a few reasons
1) they still live at home with mummy and daddy and still like sniffing there older sisters knickers
2) Build and service computers for a living and they most probably still live with there mother lives on coke and fries and never see the light of day.
3) those forum members that probably don't have much time left before they meet there maker (you know who you are).
Face it not all people use a forum like this when buying a computer. most of them buy from major retail outlets and for those people I recommend a mac

well i happen to be 17 (for the next week, anyway) and my pc is cheaper and more powerful than any Dell deal i've seen. i do it as a hobby, not for money, i have plenty of spare time for motorbikes/parties, and don't have an older sister

now why take my dell comment so seriously, i didn't even think it was possible to defend dell, and you really didn't

Why do Mac users (who also happen to be PC owners) feel the need convert PC users into becoming Mac users?

we dont

Because aside from gaming, when we sit back and read about all the of the endless networking/software/malware/formatting/3rd party video editing problems that you guys have - well you must do because that is 99% of what makes up this forum.

it is a PC HELP FORUM, where we discuss those issues, so what do you expect to find? it's like looking at a car wrecker and saying "man there's alot of broken cars, they must all break really often, but no bike, so they must be reliable" well perhaps it's because there's less bikes out there to break - DUH

Mac users don't suffer those problems and I have never heard a PC user talk passionately about the stuff that they can do on their computer apart from the enjoyment that they get from gaming.

because we dont give a **** aboput photos, i'd rether make memories rather than sit on my pc filing/editiing them. again this sounds like mac marketing (and vista is doing it too)

Everybody on this forum gets pissed of/annoyed/frustrated from hearing about how a Mac is the solution to every problem (apart from gaming) and then they tell us to go elsewhere when we get to be too much. Why? Because they don't believe that careful computing without frustration and the need for addtional antivirus/malware protection actually exists, they consider it to be "normal".

because when we post an issue for windows and/or 3rd party software, "buy a mac" does NOT help. i avoid viruses, and if apple got a big enough market share mac would start seeing viruses too

Why do Macs look the way they do compared to PCs?

Because that was part of the DNA that Steve Jobs founded the company on. A home computer is supposed to be simple to use and aesthetically pleasing to look at both on the outside and on the inside, and, it should just work. Well since Steve's return to Apple in 1997 they do. The head of Industrial Design at Apple is a Brit by the name of Jonathan Ive DSO who is responsible for the design of everything Apple has put out since Steve signed off on the first gumdrop shaped G3 iMac.

did you cut that straight from their marketing campaign or what? PCs can look good too you know, no-one sets out to make an ugly product. the colour/shape of a car has no bearing of the condition of the motor

If everybody converted to Macs over the next 3-5 years or so, the amount of spam from botnets would drop dramatically. Why? Well that was pretty much answered earlier on a few posts back.

where? look, if apple got a larger market share, two things would happen:
1: programmers would make more games etc available for mac as the market would be big enough to provide a profit
2: hackers etc would do the same, for similar reasons; no matter how good mac (or windows) security gets, it is still a human system and still has flaws.

So what additional software choices are you referring to Metla (aside from games) ?

you're kidding right? i remember someone mentioning 15000 programs for mac, i'm sure windows is well into the millions, as due to the world being 90% windows, mac programming just isn't as economical (and no-one cares)



well that should stir things up a bit

[winmacguy]

With regards to Apple and the gaming market, I don't actually think the issues lies solely with the lack of game developers for Macs. I gather from what I have read that it is more of an Apple HQ decision either not to enter the gaming market or they possibly have something secretive up their sleeve- probably more of the first point though.

With regards to programs/applications for the Mac platform, there are countless freebee and shareware sites around as long as you know where to find them. In terms of applications for job related software in the fields that Apple covers, well they have a pretty good general coverage. It is a lot better now than it was in the dark days of the early 90's. Apple has a developers section with all the necessary stuff on its site 3rd party developers, as does Intel for the Universal Binaries.

You say no one sets out to make an "ugly" product. I am sure they don't. The difference with Apple is that they care about the look and feel of a product from the initial inception to the time it is signed off for manufacture by Steve Jobs, and, funnily enough in todays highly competitive market where hardware margins are being shaved to the bone, a lot of other hardware manufactures are actually starting to give their design teams a lot more say in what the product looks like and how it operates so that they can have a point of difference and better profit margins.

Some recent obvious examples of this would be the difference between Microsofts first and 2nd? Xbox and the most recent Xbox which was lead by Robbie Bach who charged a design team to create the whole experience, also the Zune music player which is currently languishing at 21st place on Amazon behind most of the iPod range which is in 1-9 place. Why does the latest Nintendo Wii look like it does compared to previous models?

With regards to hackers and Mac well I think this comment from Slashdot

"I haven't heard about all those Mac exploits he's referring to, have you?

I have. They exist. (Most of) The exploits themselves would take a phenomenal amount of knowledge about the entire underlying OS to turn them into a full-fledged rootkit installation exploit but they do exist."


Lots of people love gaming on their PCs, some families like to have a fun time organising their photos from holidays, road trips, making a video or two from that surfing trip and mixing some music into the who thing. You may have noticed that this feature has now been made easier in Vista....
Have you seen HP's new ads with the guy talking about all the cool stuff he is doing with his friends and "shuffling" his photo collection with his hands, making some skate movies with friends because the PC has become "personal" again...

How do you think YouTube got started? Two guys who used to work for PayPal in SF decided they wanted to share some really mundane photos and video of some party with each other over the internet... go figure.

[motorbyclist]

all mainstream products are designed with aesthetics in mind, mac is nothing special - but it is pretty silly to spend money soley on what looks best, rather than what works best for you.

for gamers, that's windows, and for mac not to try to attract gamers is just thick. they aren't stopping game developers, game developers just dont see the point.

can you build your own rig and run mac? (serious question) because if not that's a pretty big deterrent. i wouldn't buy a machine for which there is no serious upgrade space, so you wont see me buy a machine where it's all in the monitor. just a gamers perspective

[plod]

Well I spent 1 hour using vista last night( I would say playing but I will get accussed of something).
First impressions are good. I set up a network for a mate at his workshop. 2 xp machines and 1 vista. Lets just say setting up vista was a breeze which was good since it was the first time I set eyes on it.
I got the pop up asking me about the changes I was going to make, but no request for password which makes the first step pointless IMO.
Overall it looks good, I will be putting this on my next pc which should be in about 6 months.
hopefully I will get to spend some more time on it to get a better feel

[01soft]

I think this depends on which is your biz.

[motorbyclist]

I think this depends on which is your biz.

what?

welcome to PF1's most controversial thread, now could you rewrite that please?

[winmacguy]

all mainstream products are designed with aesthetics in mind, mac is nothing special - but it is pretty silly to spend money soley on what looks best, rather than what works best for you.

All I can say is that the bulk of Apple's new customers are PC users who want to try a new/alternative platform and none of them are going back to the PC.

On your comment regarding Apple's attitude towards gamers and catering for gamers your probably quite right. Although the only people who know why that is work at Apple HQ.

If you could build your own Mac for gaming that would defeat the purpose of buying the whole package from Apple since they would have no control over where you sourced the hardware from and no control over how it runs on the machine. It is not right or wrong although it probably seems strange from a gamers perspective, it is just the way that Apple thinks.

In terms of Apple making more money, they made just over 1 billion dollars in the last quarter and currently have about 11 billion cash in the bank so for a company with about 5% market share that is nothing to be sneezed at.