[OT] Vodafone

[Lohsing]

Hey guys - I have one of the original Off-Peak advantage plans from the days of BellSouth... This Off-Peak advantage plan allows me to call all NZ phone numbers at no charge while off-peak.

Now, Vodafone are trying to phase out the plan... my question is, "Is this legal??"

What questions do I need to ask Vodafone in order to satisfy whether or not they can legally do this?

Cheers,

Lo.

[Winston001]

Loh - you have a contract with Vodaphone. You need to know the terms. It is fairly safe to assume that they will have the right to make certain changes.

For example, do you think you have a contract to be supplied with telephone services by Vodaphone on that number, for life?

What about on that phone for life?

Would you expect Vodaphone to sue you if you cancelled your connection?
If not, why not?

What do the contract terms say about cancellation by you, and by them?

Telecom did the same to me a few years ago forcing a move to 027. They simply increased the 025 charges to the point where the new connection became more attractive.

[Lohsing]

> Loh - you have a contract with Vodaphone. You need to
> know the terms. It is fairly safe to assume that they
> will have the right to make certain changes.

I'll ask for a copy of the original contract to read through.

> For example, do you think you have a contract to be
> supplied with telephone services by Vodaphone on that
> number, for life?

Yes.

> What about on that phone for life?

No. They have advised me previously that if I bought new phones with no contract, then I would be free to use that phone with my existing number.

> Would you expect Vodaphone to sue you if you
> cancelled your connection?
> If not, why not?

Unsure, as I need to see what the provisions are for cancelling the contract.

> What do the contract terms say about cancellation by
> you, and by them?

Unsure. I need to get the contract.

> Telecom did the same to me a few years ago forcing a
> move to 027. They simply increased the 025 charges to
> the point where the new connection became more
> attractive.

Hmmm... I see... but you didn't have the carrot of unlimited off peak minutes in NZ.

Also, if your contract continued to roll through on the existing terms and conditions once its period had elapsed, I don't know how they could increase the 025 charges??

Lo.

[Winston001]

>
> > For example, do you think you have a contract to
> be
> > supplied with telephone services by Vodaphone on
> that
> > number, for life?
>
> Yes.

It would be an unusual contract where one party had the right to services from the other for an indefinite time. Yet that one party (you) could cancel when you felt like it.


> > Would you expect Vodaphone to sue you if you
> > cancelled your connection?
> > If not, why not?
>
> Unsure, as I need to see what the provisions are for
> cancelling the contract.

I suspect Vodaphone will not have the right to your contract for life - you can cancel at any time. It will be an open contract determinable at will. Cancellable at any time. By either party.

> Hmmm... I see... but you didn't have the carrot of
> unlimited off peak minutes in NZ.
>
> Also, if your contract continued to roll through on
> the existing terms and conditions once its period had
> elapsed, I don't know how they could increase the 025
> charges??

From about 1995 I have had 180 minutes/month free off-peak cell-phone use on my Telecom plans. The contract terms allow them to change the rental and daytime call charges once the initial 24 months passed. Thus 025 was deliberately priced above 027 a few years ago and most people moved. Some probably just wanted to text.

Hope this helps. You can probably get your contract terms from Vodaphone's website.

Cheers
Winston

[Winston001]

It has just occurred to me that I've made an error.

"Never assume" is what I tell people, yet I've done exactly that!

Even large companies make mistakes with their contracts. You should find your original contract terms - Vodaphone may resist but they'll have them.

Make Vodaphone justify their position but do not take their word for it. Read the contract and subsequent changes over the years. You may find a good argument.

[Lohsing]

> It would be an unusual contract where one party had
> the right to services from the other for an
> indefinite time. Yet that one party (you) could
> cancel when you felt like it.

Yes, but remember Bellsouth were keen on getting people signed up just to build a customer base... desparate times means desparate acts!

> I suspect Vodaphone will not have the right to your
> contract for life - you can cancel at any time. It
> will be an open contract determinable at will.
> Cancellable at any time. By either party.

Maybe - but if that were the case, they should have tried it when Vodafone had taken over Bellsouth. The fact they haven't and have allowed me to keep this contract since day zero suggests that they probably would find a lot of resistance to this change.

> From about 1995 I have had 180 minutes/month free
> off-peak cell-phone use on my Telecom plans. The
> contract terms allow them to change the rental and
> daytime call charges once the initial 24 months
> passed. Thus 025 was deliberately priced above 027 a
> few years ago and most people moved. Some probably
> just wanted to text.

I don't have a problem with them to review the daytime amount. I use it simply for night-time off-peak. This effectively means that they can't "price" me out of the plan... If Telecom promised you UNLIMITED off peak minutes, with a provision to vary the daytime peak minute surcharge, I'd bet dollars to donuts that you would simply purchase another phone instead of giving up that lucrative contract!

Lo.

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

> Hey guys - I have one of the original Off-Peak
> advantage plans from the days of BellSouth... This
> Off-Peak advantage plan allows me to call all NZ
> phone numbers at no charge while off-peak.
>
> Now, Vodafone are trying to phase out the plan... my
> question is, "Is this legal??"


Am pretty sure they've been trying to phase it out for some time. I know someone else on that plan (lucky bugger) and every time he calls them they try to get him to change.

I dunno about their legal stance on it though.

[Winston001]

> Now, Vodafone are trying to phase out the plan... my
> question is, "Is this legal??"

Your question, in other words, is "Can Vodaphone cancel my contract without my agreement?"

You need the contract terms to answer this. If you can keep it, good on you.

I changed cos the 027 coverage is digital and better, as well as the price structure. Otherwise, I'd have left it at 025.

[SKT174]

It was a good plan, I mean extra $20 u can talk as much as u like during off peak. I have a friend who has this plan and use an average of 5000 minutes a month.

Practically you can help people on prepaid or any other plans to chat for free. Example he has a friend in Auckland and another in Hamilton, they always called my friend that they want to chat. My friend would frist call the guy in Auckland and then make a call to Hamilton and joined them as conference.

The Auckland guy and Hamilton guys don't pay a dime since they didn't initiate the call. My friend is acting like a bridge between them.

Another amazing feature is that you can have a max of 6 people in conference, and you can choose to have a private channel with anyone in the conference while leaving the other 4 chatting to themselves.

Now do you see why Vodafone wanna stop this service ?

[Lohsing]

The plot thickens... I've been in contact with Vodafone again, and have asked for a copy of the original Bellsouth contract I signed. They have tried to tell me that the new terms and conditions of Vodafone apply to the now non-existent contract.

I asked specifically, "How can you apply different terms and conditions to another contract?" They couldn't answer that one... The customer service rep kept trying to assure me that the contracts were now finished following Vodafone's "No Strings Attached" promotion... I responded by asking him where in the original contract they could vary the terms and conditions with only 14 days notice... He pulled up my original contract (scanned in apparently) and read out the terms and conditions...

Now, here's where it gets interesting... He couldn't read out where it said that Vodafone or Bellsouth could vary any term of the contract with 14 days written notice... So his next tact was to try and tell me that the contract was for 36 months only and that the period had expired... I responded by asking him where it said that once the 36 month period had expired, I would be subject to Vodafone's terms and conditions... he couldn't find it under the original terms... Apparently while I am technically off contract, I am still on a "Month to month" account... once I found that out, I asked him to read the clause where it said I had to re-sign or re-new the contract... he couldn't find it.

My take on the above is that because the contract does not expressly specify what happens or the length of term I can stay on this month to month account, I can have this contract in perpetuity.

I also believe that Vodafone cannot apply their terms and conditions to the Bellsouth contract... Anyone have any thoughts on this??

Watch this space, because I have asked for the scanned original to be sent through to me. I am going to fight this all the way!

Lo.