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  1. #1
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Thumbs up For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Extract from an E-Mail.

    "My name is Terence Cardwell. I spent 25 years in the Electricity Commission of NSW working, commissioning and operating the various power units. My last was the 4 X 350 MW Munmorah Power Stations near Newcastle.

    Terence says this about Coal fired power plants:

    · First coal fired power stations do NOT send 60 to 70% of the energy up the chimney. The boilers of modern power station are 96% efficient and the exhaust heat is captured by the economisers and reheaters that heat the air and water before entering the boilers.

    · The very slight amount exiting the stack is moist as in condensation and CO2. There is virtually no fly ash because this is removed by the precipitators or bagging plant that are 99.98% efficient. The 4% lost is heat through boiler wall convection.

    · Coal-fired Power Stations are highly efficient with very little heat loss and can generate a massive amount of energy for our needs. They can generate power at efficiency of less than 10,000 b.t.u. per kilowatt and cost-wise that is very low.

    · The percentage cost of mining and freight is very low. The total cost of fuel is 8% of total generation cost and does NOT constitute a major production cost.

    As for being laughed out of the country, China is building multitudes of coal-fired power stations because they are the most efficient for bulk power generation.

    We have, like the USA , coal-fired power stations because we HAVE the raw materials and are VERY fortunate to have them. Believe me no one is laughing at Australia – exactly the reverse, they are very envious of our raw materials and independence. The major percentage of power in Europe and U.K. is nuclear because they don't have the coal supply for the future.

    Yes it would be very nice to have clean, quiet, cheap energy in bulk supply. Everyone agrees that it would be ideal. You don't have to be a genius to work that out. But there is only one problem---It doesn't exist

    Yes - there are wind and solar generators being built all over the world but they only add a small amount to the overall power demand.

    The maximum size wind generator is 3 Megawatts, which can rarely be attained on a continuous basis because it requires substantial forces of wind. And for the same reason only generate when there is sufficient wind to drive them. This of course depends where they are located but usually they only run for 45% - 65% of the time, mostly well below maximum capacity. They cannot be relied on for a 'base load ‘because they are too variable. And they certainly could not be used for load control.

    The peak load demand for electricity in Australia is approximately 50,000 Megawatts and only small part of this comes from the Snowy Hydro Electric System (the ultimate power Generation) because it is only available when water is there from snow melt or rain. And yes, they can pump it back but it costs to do that. (Long Story).

    Tasmania is very fortunate in that they have mostly hydro-electric generation because of their high amounts of snow and rainfall. They also have wind generators (located in the roaring forties) but that is only a small amount of total power generated.

    Based on an average generating output of 1.5 megawatts (of unreliable power) you would require over 33,300 wind generators.

    As for solar power generation much research has been done over the decades and there are two types.

    Solar thermal generation and Solar Electric generation but in each case they cannot generate large amounts of electricity.

    Any clean, cheap energy is obviously welcomed but they would NEVER have the capability of replacing Thermal Power Generation. So get your heads out of the clouds, do some basic mathematics and look at the facts, - not going off with the fairies (or some would say the extreme greenies).

    We are all greenies in one form or another and care very much about our planet. The difference is most of us are realistic. Not in some idyllic utopia where everything can be made perfect by standing around holding a banner and being a general pain in the backside.

    Here are some facts that will show how ridiculous this financial madness is that the government is following. Do the simple maths and see for yourselves.

    According to the 'believers' the CO2 in air has risen from .034% to .038% in air over the last 50 years.

    To put the percentage of Carbon Dioxide in air in a clearer perspective;

    If you had a room 3.7 x 3.7 x 2.1 metres the area carbon dioxide would occupy in that room would be .25 x .25 x .17m or the size of a large packet of cereal.

    Australia emits 1% of the world's total carbon Dioxide and the government wants to reduce this by 20% or reduce emissions by 0.2 % of the world's total CO2 emissions.

    What effect will this have on existing CO2 levels?

    By their own figures they state the CO2 in air has risen from .034% to .038% in 50 years.

    Assuming this is correct, the world CO2 has increased in 50 years by - .004%.

    Per year that is .004 divided by 50 = .00008%. (Getting confusing - but stay with me!).

    Of that, because we only contribute 1%, our emissions would cause CO2 to rise .00008 divided by 100 = .0000008%.

    Of that 1%, we supposedly emit, the governments want to reduce it by 20% which is 1/5th of .0000008 = .00000016% effect per year they would have on the world CO2 emissions based on their own figures.

    That would equate to an area in the same room, as the size of a small pin.

    For that, they have gone crazy with the ridiculous trading schemes, Solar and Roofing Installations, Clean Coal Technology, Renewable Energy, etc, etc.

    How ridiculous it that?

    The cost to the general public and industry will be enormous and cripple, even closing some smaller businesses.

    T. L. Cardwell"
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  2. #2
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    I've seen this cut and pasted about 3 times now, each time with different names and locations. It's fabricated and the maths is bad. There may be some valid points hiding in there but due to the dodgy nature of the delivery I won't be putting any stock in it.
    La
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  3. #3
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    "Tasmania is very fortunate in that they have mostly hydro-electric generation because of their high amounts of snow and rainfall. "

    And NZ.

    And in any case this is why?

    Something to do with the article in the news about the gas mask lady?
    Coal in fireplaces is disgusting...it pollutes the air, it cause soot all over the house and is bad for the breathing.

    Power stations, well that's another matter.
    https://www.ge.com/power/transform/a...or-high-water#
    Ex-pctek

  4. #4
    Old dick-head
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Neither will I.

    Solar/Wind/Battery (SWB) is already the cheapest marginal supplier in parts of the USA. and is getting even cheaper.

    Coal is a dead industry despite what Mr Cardwell says or even Mr Trump.

    This is a good read - and Figure 6 shows the decline of coal.

  5. #5
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    sounds like the coal industry is crapping itself due to the new govt. not only will they loose out to renewable sources, which previous govts did nothing, they may even be force to pay some tax in aussie.
    a lot of corporations are making big dollars out of aussie fossil fuel. no doubt they do not want the gravy train to stop.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  6. #6
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Looking at various comments, then thought hmmmm -- searching google, the article is old, 13 YEARS old. One instance shows the same article, as its been mentioned with a few words changed.

    The opening page says it all, look at the date So its nothing new.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Looking at various comments, then thought hmmmm -- searching google, the article is old, 13 YEARS old. One instance shows the same article, as its been mentioned with a few words changed.

    The opening page says it all, look at the date So its nothing new.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I’m afraid it eludes me how the age of the article effects the validity of its contents?

    I mean Ohm’s law has been around a couple of hundred years and is as valid today as it ever was.

    So which of the authors claims do you have an issue with?
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  8. #8
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by decibel View Post

    This is a good read - and Figure 6 shows the decline of coal.

    I got to page 6 and found an extensive disclaimer which started off:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I read all the disclaimer and figured the rest wasn't worth reading.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  9. #9
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    I’m afraid it eludes me how the age of the article effects the validity of its contents?

    I mean Ohm’s law has been around a couple of hundred years and is as valid today as it ever was.

    So which of the authors claims do you have an issue with?
    I don't have a issue with any of it, Where did I say I did ? All I said was its nothing new.

    The problem about the validity of it since you asked is on the internet there are countless number of articles that have been reposted on many different places and some seem to think they are new. While in fact, some of the content ( depending on what the subject is) could be out of date, or in some cases proven as incorrect when it was written.

    You asked for comments and you got them, so maybe you should be careful what you ask for because you may not like what you get.

    If you're going to be picky reread your own very next post #8. You explained it perfectly
    Last edited by wainuitech; 23-06-2022 at 09:01 AM.

  10. #10
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: For Your Consideration and Comment.

    We import most of our coal from Indonesia don't we?

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