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  1. #21
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Shouldn't really be a problem, think about it, theres Hybrids in cars where the engine actually charges the battery, the neighbours have two electric, one a Leaf they have to charge nightly, the hybrid never gets charged as its engine can charge when its moving, so shouldn't be that hard to have a Airplane generate the forward motion and the few hundred km of wind into a generator that recharges the batteries.
    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    if your going to start throwing insults thats fine, But READ THE TITLE -- IN THE NEAR FUTURE. ( Define the exact time - NEAR) Cars can already self charge (neighbours does) so why cant Planes IN THE FUTURE. Can you actually see the future ? No -- didn't think so.

    As for generating power by air flow they do ALREADY do it in a small scale in an emergency. They are called Ram Air Turbine's.
    i thought you where joking.

    hybrid cars have a petrol engine charging the battery. so they are not much different from a normal car.

    they (and ev's) also use regenerative braking to charge the battery. ie when they go down hill or slow down, they get about 30% of the power back that they used to go up the hill. but if the hybrid only ever drives on the flat at constant speed (like an aircraft) the regen and battery do absolutely nothing.

    for aircraft, there is no hills to climb up and down like a car, so recharging is not useful. the biggest problems is simply weight vers the amount of power storage, vers how many paying passengers you can carry. plus weather factors and safety issues.
    also the only time aircraft go "down hill" is when they go to land. charging up the battery doesn't help extend the range of the trip because the trip has ended.

    yes you can charge by air flow, such as the RAT, but your trading air speed for battery power, so you keep going slower until you crash.
    you can't fly along and recharge at the same time, thats perpetual motion.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  2. #22
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    i thought you where joking.

    hybrid cars have a petrol engine charging the battery. so they are not much different from a normal car.

    they (and ev's) also use regenerative braking to charge the battery. ie when they go down hill or slow down, they get about 30% of the power back that they used to go up the hill. but if the hybrid only ever drives on the flat at constant speed (like an aircraft) the regen and battery do absolutely nothing.

    for aircraft, there is no hills to climb up and down like a car, so recharging is not useful. the biggest problems is simply weight vers the amount of power storage, vers how many paying passengers you can carry. plus weather factors and safety issues.
    also the only time aircraft go "down hill" is when they go to land. charging up the battery doesn't help extend the range of the trip because the trip has ended.

    yes you can charge by air flow, such as the RAT, but your trading air speed for battery power, so you keep going slower until you crash.
    you can't fly along and recharge at the same time, thats perpetual motion.
    Exactly correct in all regards.

  3. #23
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    you can't fly along and recharge at the same time, thats perpetual motion.
    No Not joking, obviously I'm thinking a lot further ahead than most others here in the future. Not next Week, or month but years away.

    Using the Ram Air Turbine's example of whats currently capable, they are described as:
    A ram air turbine (RAT) is a small wind turbine that is connected to a hydraulic pump, or electrical generator, installed in an aircraft and used as a power source. The RAT generates power from the airstream by ram pressure due to the speed of the aircraft.
    Now WHO is to say that IN THE FUTURE something along those lines cant be designed and able to recharge a battery that powers a plane ???

    In the FUTURE there will be "items" or ways of doing things that have not even been thought of today. So unless someone is able to time travel forward then come back and say it hasn't worked, NO ONE knows what will be developed.

    Only people with closed minds hold up progress.

    Just did a search for "Self charging batteries in Planes" for all the experts here dont google it you'll be shot down in flames, they are in development already.

    Self Charging in Development https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...power-aircraft

    This says it all
    Since the battery is self-charging, which requires only exposure to natural air, any excess charge can be stored in capacitors, super-capacitors, and secondary cells. It does not require any external power source and also incorporates a DC-to-DC converter to control the current.
    Small beginnings will develop to larger things.

  4. #24
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Sorry WT, not possible.

    This kind of machine is impossible, as it would violate either the first or second law of thermodynamics or both.

    The ISS needs to boost height at fairly regular intervals as well.

    Your neighbours car is obviously a hybrid and as such you are right. But, only if you take away the petrol engine. That, then mucks it all up.

    Ken
    Last edited by kenj; 14-05-2022 at 03:25 PM.

  5. #25
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Oh Dear, this thread has all the “Hallmarks” of one years ago involving an Aeroplane taking off on a conveyor Belt.

    As for this Thread, honestly Wainui you cant be serious.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Paul.Cov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Surely Wainui is too intelligent to believe his own BS. He's got to be yanking someones chain.

    Your neighbours hybrids are not 'self charging'. They drink fossil fuels and chunder out CO2 in order to charge those batteries.

    So the same tech (or lack of tech) might indeed be the solution to long haul planes... use renewable energy to power the electrolysis/pumps/processes of making a high energy density fossil fuel from scratch, and use that to fuel the planes. It's inefficient, but can indeed be carbon neutral. It just won't be cheap any time soon.

  7. #27
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    I'm sure he is having us on The laws of physics apply exactly the same everywhere in the Universe. Except, maybe inside a black hole because I don't think anyone knows what goes on in there.

    Ken

  8. #28
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Oh Dear, this thread has all the “Hallmarks” of one years ago involving an Aeroplane taking off on a conveyor Belt.

    As for this Thread, honestly Wainui you cant be serious.
    yes serious, links provided to what's already in development relating to self charging batteries and still the Closed minds wont read.

    Glad there's so many EXPERT Aircraft Engineers and Battery EXPERTS here LOL.

    Funny how the EXPERTS only read snippets of what's posted and pick and choose how to read it. Certain mentions are ONLY REFERANCES / Examples -- Read whats written not what you THINK is written.

    All the Experts are here, and we all know what Expert is short for in slang
    Last edited by wainuitech; 14-05-2022 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #29
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    The batteries you linked might be able to power an aircraft for a very long time, but they won't be getting their charge from any aircraft mounted generators they already contain it in the form of radioactive material.
    It might work, but it doesn't resemble what you actually said very much.

    "so shouldn't be that hard to have a Airplane generate the forward motion and the few hundred km of wind into a generator that recharges the batteries." Describes perpetual motion and is what I personally was commenting on as impossible
    The link you provided https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...power-aircraft talks about batteries powered by radioactive isotopes, entirely different thing and yes it might happen in the near future

    No I'm not an expert on this, neither are you so what makes your proposal any more valid than my rebuttal. Yes I did read your comments and links, did you really read all the ones explaining why you were wrong ?

    In the PC repair field I will bow to your knowledge but this Idea is bonkers and I'm not sure I believe the Diamond Batteries are what you were originally referring to, if it was you explained it poorly.

    Still awaiting the part where you shoot us down in flames.
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  10. #30
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Electric aircraft in the near future? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post

    Just did a search for "Self charging batteries in Planes" for all the experts here dont google it you'll be shot down in flames, they are in development already.

    Self Charging in Development https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...power-aircraft

    This says it all Small beginnings will develop to larger things.
    to quote that article, "The power source for the nano-diamond battery is intermediate- and high-level radio isotopes ".
    so really its more like a fuel cell. which charges up a battery when you expose the fuel to air.
    its basically a nuclear powered aircraft. very cool but its not charging itself by its movement in the air as you claimed previously.
    its like a hybrid car burning petrol to charge a battery, or a fuel cell reacting hydrogen to charge a battery.
    Tweak it till it breaks

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