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  1. #1
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    According to a study of 7000 motorists in Europe reported in June last year, people with electric vehicles (EVs) drive more than those in petrol-driven vehicles. Another British study in October showed the same.

    But the British study also found owners of hybrid cars were doing a whopping 57 per cent more driving than their petrol-propelled counterparts.

    Both these studies overturn earlier suggestions that EV owners drive less. The trend seems to be that as electric vehicles become more popular, people are driving them more. This is bad news for road safety, traffic congestion and, counterintuitively, for climate change.

    There are two obvious reasons for the trend. One is that battery range in EVs is growing fast: you can make longer trips more easily now.
    The other is something economists call the Jevons paradox. This occurs when a thing becomes more efficient but the efficiency doesn't lead to savings, because it gets used more. Many owners of heat pumps know it well: your power bill hasn't gone down, but you've got a warmer house.

    Carmakers are busy making their EVs cool so everyone will want one. It sounds like the right thing to do.

    But the Jevons paradox is one reason EVs are not the solution that will save the planet or, for that matter, help much with anything else.

    EV manufacture releases more greenhouse gases and other pollutants than petrol-vehicle manufacture, and their brakes and tyres cause emissions too. But the Climate Change Commission estimates that over the life of an EV, there's a 60 per cent reduction in emissions.
    That's helpful, but it's not a silver bullet.

    Currently in New Zealand, our largely renewable energy is topped up with dirty imported coal, mainly from Indonesia. As the number of EVs grows, so will the need for more renewable power, from wind and the sun. It's already happening, but slowly.

    EVs also need cobalt, which mainly comes from mines in Congo controlled by China.

    More than all this, EVs can't solve the transport emissions issue on their own. Paul Winton, from the 1Point5 Project and a member of the All Aboard Aotearoa coalition of climate-focused lobby groups, has calculated that if half our vehicle fleet was electric by 2030, Auckland would reduce emissions by 1588 kilotonnes of carbon dioxide. That's 44 per cent of the expected emissions level of 3580kt by 2030.

    But it isn't big enough.

    Perhaps the biggest problem of all is that EVs reinforce car dependency. Car makers know this; it's why they're so thrilled.

    EVs will accelerate the trend, because their number grows

    We already know what will happen if we try to accommodate this by building more roads, extra motorway lanes and more car parks. It will siphon resources from alternatives that could do some good.

    We can't solve any of our traffic-related problems unless we reduce the number of cars on the roads.

    Canadian urban planner Brent Toderian puts it like this: "Here's the blunt reality reasonably sized electric vehicles need to be the future of cars, but they can't be the future of urban mobility. Fewer cars. Less driving. Better communities and cities. These are the four pillars of the real solution."
    All Aboard Aotearoa has taken Auckland Council and Auckland Transport to court this week. They're arguing that the Regional Land Transport Plan adopted last year is unlawful because it will, at best, reduce emissions by only one per cent by 2031, compared to 2016 levels.

    The risk is, we'll be told we've got the new technology so the problem is solved. It's simply not true.


    __________________________________________________ ______________

    Have to agree. We need: A)Less people on the planet. A lot less and B: Real public transport, useful public transport.
    Ex-pctek

  2. #2
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    Agree with your comment!

    Ken

  3. #3
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    The are other EV problems to solve as well:

    Video captures driverless Tesla crashing into US$3 million private jet

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300...on-private-jet

    it's worth reading the comments as well.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #4
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    The are other EV problems to solve as well:

    Video captures driverless Tesla crashing into US$3 million private jet
    Thats nothing to do with EV's

    Its an issue with a car company persisting with autodrive tech that simply isnt safe .
    There have been several serious onroad accidents due to Teslas autodrive function .
    Using the phone while driving is nothing compared to drivers having a nap when the cars going down the motorway

    This is scary stuff
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3hrKnv0dPQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFtfJLi2aJA

    https://youtu.be/ovc2axLmzIw
    Last edited by 1101; 27-04-2022 at 11:47 AM.

  5. #5
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    It's interesting but it doesn't really offer any solutions "Fewer cars. Less driving. Better communities and cities" Sure but how do we achieve that.
    Whatever the solution is continuing with fossil fuels isn't it. Regardless of whether EVs will achieve any of the goals suggested for them we still need to move away from fossil fuels.

    We all know the real answers are more to do with population and consumption than any one technology and we all know nobody is going to fix that any time soon.
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    The govt dept heads that keep saying
    less cars, take the bus/train , remove the car parks for cycle lanes .....
    They all drive around in cars themselves . hypocrisy at the highest level . Then they go on overseas junkets every other year, in polluting airplanes.

  7. #7
    Soaring like an Eagle gary67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    We can only achieve those aims if more people work from home or work locally i.e walking or cycling distance, sourcing all of our food from locally grown sources etc, etc. Living in a global world only makes things worse

  8. #8
    Computer "Specialist" Agent_24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    Sure, let's save the environment with vehicles that are unsupported for battery replacement in 5 years and will end up in the junkyard much earlier than they should.

    https://www.ev-resource.com/blog/gm-...ment-available

    "EV Resource has confirmed that GM will no longer be providing replacement battery packs for the Spark EV. This means that when the high-voltage (HV) battery fails, owners will have zero options to repair their car. None. Their vehicle will never drive again."

    How many more makes/models are going to end up like this?

  9. #9
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    Quote Originally Posted by gary67 View Post
    We can only achieve those aims if more people work from home or work locally i.e walking or cycling distance, sourcing all of our food from locally grown sources etc, etc. Living in a global world only makes things worse
    Alot of peoples concept of walking distance is the end of their driveway. Even if it's a block away, they will take the car.

  10. #10
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evs and "saving our environment" in Herald

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    The govt dept heads that keep saying
    less cars, take the bus/train ,.
    Yep. And when does NZ get decent public transport? Look at the US< or UK< subways, Underground as well as above ground. Here, the reduced the stops and frequency and we have no good public trans[port, not even in the 3 main cities.
    Ex-pctek

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