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Thread: Pandemics...?

  1. #1
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Pandemics...?

    In early January, three Americans proposed a plan for the “new normal”: that is, life with Covid-19.

    The coronavirus, they wrote, should be seen as another circulating respiratory illness - like influenza or respiratory syncytial virus (RSV).

    Eradication or elimination of Covid-19 is impossible given immunity imbued by the current vaccines do not protect against infection in the long-term. Frankly, it means there’s no practical way right now to expel this bothersome newcomer.

    Spain’s prime minister Pedro Sanchez has suggested it’s time to treat Covid-19 like the flu. Bill Gates has said similar. Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla has said the coronavirus will circulate for years to come.

    In the UK, Labour leader Keir Starmer has outlined a plan to coexist with the virus where people can “live their lives as normal” and never again face “tough restrictions on our lives, our livelihoods and our liberties”.

    Professor David Heymann of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has said the virus will soon be endemic.



    The great parrot fever outbreak of 1930 has slipped from our collective memory. But at its peak, it was the stuff of panicked headlines .

    It is easier to generate panic than to disseminate real information.

    Richard Neustadt and Ernest May spelled out the dangers of epidemics when they looked at the 1976 swine flu debacle. Swine flu was then seen as an imminent danger to people.

    The CDC then, and recently, used the horrors of 1918 as their “worst case scenario”.

    George Bush announced, in 2005, having read John Barry's history of the 1918 pandemic, that avian influenza was the equivalent of the 1918 influenza epidemic and posited it as the world's greatest risk—replacing international terrorism.

    Avian influenza in the 21st century triggered international responses greatly out of scale to its actual danger.

    When it first arose in southern China in 2003, SARS was called “severe acute nervousness syndrome” because it was accompanied by almost paranoid fear. Here the model of an infection was manifest. The new disease was seen with much the same anxiety and paranoia in the West as a new cholera or Black Death .

    By June 11, 2009, H1N1 was a designated pandemic.

    Everyone was hyper-aware of H1N1 influenza from the city health officials who met you at the airport wearing masks and brandishing thermometers to the city's inhabitants, hidden behind their masks on the trams.
    SARS was set to invade and destroy “civilization”. And the people in Hong Kong and south China were blamed for this.

    Our ignorance about pandemics tends to swing to dangerous panic.

    The germ theory of disease and other scientific advances in the 19th century fostered a sense of mastery over the microbial world. But pathogens have continued to crash our species barrier despite those advances — H.I.V. from chimpanzees, influenza from birds, Zika from monkeys, to name just three.

    Fear has played a particularly vital role in coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

    To put these observations into perspective, it is instructive to look to a comparison to coverage of seasonal influenza, which is estimated by the World Health Organization to kill 290,000 to 650,000 people around the world every year. Since January 12 2020, world newspapers have published just 488 articles on the seasonal influenza without mention of the coronavirus.

    In sharp contrast to coverage of this novel coronavirus, fewer than one in ten stories about flu (37 of 488) mentioned fear or similar phrases.

    And panicking that new diseases will unfold like previous ones generates inaccurate history and unnecessary fear in the present, sometimes with serious consequences.

    Since the mid-1990s the media, scientists, the government, the security apparatus and eventually historians began to perpetuate an “outbreak narrative” about pandemic disease typified in popular culture, for example, by the 1995 movie “Outbreak.”

    Each of these groups had its own reasons — whether generating more stories, fundraising or identifying new national security threats.

    The result was a feedback loop: Studies emphasized potential dangers from infectious diseases, and it led to more research, preparedness exercises and media attention to infectious diseases, which in turn led to more research funding.

    Once the pathogen’s identity is revealed to the public, a new name will become commonplace. The government will reassure the public that everything is safe (until it isn’t). Dissenters will critique the government for failing to prepare adequately.

    The media will publicize the identity of the source (almost always foreign), trace the pathogen’s transmission and headline the number of infected and dead.

    Doctors will heroically risk their lives to fight the disease and cure the pandemic.

    Or consider traffic accidents, which kill about 1.25 million people every year yet seem to have little impact on people’s behavior, either good and bad.

    Yet, despite the likelihood that the majority of people will never get the virus and that the vast majority who do will survive, people and governments are reacting in some extreme ways.

    The global COVID-19 pandemic has resulted in soaring infection rates, widespread lockdowns, record-shattering declines in output, and spiking poverty.

    The coronavirus feeds into this expectation by presenting it like an inevitable comeuppance. As Barkun put it, “We live in a time of apocalyptic motifs.” Or as a friend said to me, “Even if it’s not this one that ultimately gets us, it hardly matters. The next will or the one after that.”
    Ex-pctek

  2. #2
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Is this what we want to happen here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...t-who-is-dying
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #3
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    In early January, three Americans proposed a plan for the “new normal”: that is, life with Covid-19.

    ....................................

    The coronavirus feeds into this expectation by presenting it like an inevitable comeuppance. As Barkun put it, “We live in a time of apocalyptic motifs.” Or as a friend said to me, “Even if it’s not this one that ultimately gets us, it hardly matters. The next will or the one after that.”
    while that all looks nice, all it really says is "ignore it and let it kill off millions of people because we don't care about anyone else".
    its the same BS that "plan b" proposed at the start. turns out they where totally wrong, we beat the first wave and didn't loose money like most others did.

    its also doing the classic anti-vax argument of taking results where measures where used and claiming that it would be like that with no measures used. which of course is complete nonsense.
    like road deaths. yes there is a lot but we also spend a huge amount of time/money keeping road deaths to a minimum and that has a huge impact on peoples behavior. this is anti-vax trying to claim that all road rules, policing, driver training, road design and building does absolutely nothing to the road toll. which of course we all know is not true. just as we know that covid measures have massively reduced covid illness and death here.

    piroska, its concerning that your going down the anti-vax rabbit hole. these stories are made for the sole purpose to suck people in, try to ignore them.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  4. #4
    Senior Member Paul.Cov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    What also remains to be seen is whether or not Covid will cause cumulative organ damage after repeated (seasonal) infections.

    Imagine if each exposure permanently robs your lungs of 2% of their function... easy to ignore and hard for doctors to pick up initially, but after 2 decades you've lost 40% lung function and can barely cope with the challenge of walking slowly. The potential exists for endemic covid to make invalids of us all over a longer timespan.

    Lung and heart tissues, digestive tract are all known to suffer harm with covid, and there's speculation that the vaccines aren't good for heart tissues either (but less hazardous than the virus).

  5. #5
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Cov View Post
    What also remains to be seen is whether or not Covid will cause cumulative organ damage after repeated (seasonal) infections.

    Imagine if each exposure permanently robs your lungs of 2% of their function... easy to ignore and hard for doctors to pick up initially, but after 2 decades you've lost 40% lung function and can barely cope with the challenge of walking slowly. The potential exists for endemic covid to make invalids of us all over a longer timespan.

    Lung and heart tissues, digestive tract are all known to suffer harm with covid, and there's speculation that the vaccines aren't good for heart tissues either (but less hazardous than the virus).
    true, however keep in mind endemic covid will not be the covid we know today.

    our goal at the moment is to get through this early phase as covid changes. hopefully covid will become more mild and eventually turn into the common cold. as reported today there is omicron 2.0 out now, we shall wait and see whats different with that one.

    the single biggest difference between covid and other major pandemics is we can see whats going on with the actual virus. i think its first world wide new disease that we have been able to track through out all its changes.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  6. #6
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Whole country going to red traffic light from midnight tonight, supermarkets already full of people and of course toilet paper shelves looking depleted already.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    Whole country going to red traffic light from midnight tonight, supermarkets already full of people and of course toilet paper shelves looking depleted already.
    Why the hell
    do people always go mad about toilet paper. I would have thought that there was much more to be concerned about.

  8. #8
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    the silly thing is red traffic light has minimal restrictions to people. it doesn't stop anyone shopping.
    plus people should have stocked up a while ago, its not like this is unexpected.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  9. #9
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    The whole point is it is PANIC CENTURY.
    Nothing, even covid has turned out anything like the Black Plague or even the 1918 flu.

    Hell the UK (among others) is back to normal now, we're all (except for the nutters) vaccinated now.

    But MS Pink Hair and the others are panic mongering still, and the govt is still listening.
    Ex-pctek

  10. #10
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pandemics...?

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    The whole point is it is PANIC CENTURY.
    Nothing, even covid has turned out anything like the Black Plague or even the 1918 flu.

    Hell the UK (among others) is back to normal now, we're all (except for the nutters) vaccinated now.
    thats the standard anti-vac trick of taking results gained from using social measures and claiming it would be the same without.
    while they did do some social measures with spanish flu, they didn't have vaccines, they didn't know exactly what they where dealing with.
    its like your other post saying road deaths would be the same if they had no driver training, no crash barriers, no safety measures. total BS.

    UK is not "back to normal". they have reduced measures at the moment. you also have to remember that they stopped doing anything and just let people die.
    delta cases was steadily increasing before omicron hit. who knows whats going to happen now, they may have delta still circulating.

    we are about to get a reminder of what the world has been going through. pull your head out of the sand, focus up and get your game on.
    Tweak it till it breaks

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