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  1. #1
    VoidMaster
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    Default Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    They have accepted blame:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/11/i...nes/index.html

    No thanks to all those that contested me and said it was a conspiracy theory and the thread was closed prematurely.

    So in summation, the planes (737Max) were not airworthy and it was Boeing who was to blame.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #2
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Good on them, at least they stepped up for the families.

    I still prefer Boeing to Airbus.

    Humans don't make things well, planes have improved a lot and continue to do so...we risk our lives getting in cars...especially with ourselves in control of them.
    Ex-pctek

  3. #3
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    They wouldn't have done, it was just that they were badgered into having to hold inquiries where they did their best to blame everybody except themselves, the pilots mostly, however the faulty arrangements of the components going to make up the modified plane coupled with terrible software and hardware kludges was their undoing.

    A combination of trying to save money and beating out the competition (Airbus) who had got ahead of the game with a design from scratch whereas Boeing tried to modify a end of life design (737) to do the job.

    A typical upper-level management over-riding engineering staff to shortcut the necessary and required work, ie a re-design from scratch.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #4
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    They have accepted blame:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/11/i...nes/index.html

    No thanks to all those that contested me and said it was a conspiracy theory and the thread was closed prematurely.

    So in summation, the planes (737Max) were not airworthy and it was Boeing who was to blame.
    you seam to have things mixed up a bit.

    Boeing was always at fault, which i recall was mentioned in that thread (and others), and thats been known for a rather long time now.

    the conspiracy bit was that the Boeing 737 is a flawed design, which it certainly is not.
    it still is one of the safest planes around and is still being ordered and produced today.
    its been around so long that its a very well sorted aircraft (series). going to a completely new aircraft has a higher risk of making mistakes as it takes time to sort out any bugs.
    in fact the thing that caused the 737max crashes was an addon, the new bit was the problem not the old plane.

    just because its an old design does not mean there is anything wrong with it.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  5. #5
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    They wouldn't have done, it was just that they were badgered into having to hold inquiries where they did their best to blame everybody except themselves, the pilots mostly, however the faulty arrangements of the components going to make up the modified plane coupled with terrible software and hardware kludges was their undoing.

    A combination of trying to save money and beating out the competition (Airbus) who had got ahead of the game with a design from scratch whereas Boeing tried to modify a end of life design (737) to do the job.

    A typical upper-level management over-riding engineering staff to shortcut the necessary and required work, ie a re-design from scratch.
    don't forget airbus had issues with its fly by wire computers which could have easily crashed the plane. new stuff always has issues to work out, thats the problem with "design from scratch".
    Tweak it till it breaks

  6. #6
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    The Boeing 737 MAX is a flawed design which meant they had to make up a system which corrected for too large engines being mounted higher up on the wing for ground clearance, this caused the planes flight characteristics to be altered to the extent that it would have to be re-certified but rather than do this which would be expensive and take a longer time Boeing tried a hardware and software kludge called MCAS which they neglected to let the pilots know all they should do, lol.

    Nothing wrong with the Boeing 737 series but the MAX was a step too far on and old airframe like this to compete with Airbus.

    Boeing entirely and completely in the wrong from the stat of the MAX to the finish and then tried to avoid responsibility by blaming the pilots.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 12-11-2021 at 05:40 PM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #7
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    The Boeing 737 MAX is a flawed design which meant they had to make up a system which corrected for too large engines being mounted higher up on the wing for ground clearance, this caused the planes flight characteristics to be altered to the extent that it would have to be re-certified but rather than do this which would be expensive and take a longer time Boeing tried a hardware and software kludge called MCAS which they neglected to let the pilots know all they should do, lol.

    Nothing wrong with the Boeing 737 series but the MAX was a step too far on and old airframe like this to compete with Airbus.

    Boeing entirely and completely in the wrong from the stat of the MAX to the finish and then tried to avoid responsibility by blaming the pilots.
    yeah sort of.
    except the 737 max flies perfectly fine without the MCAS system.
    even with the bigger engines making it pitch a bit more, the plane is stable and flies perfectly fine.

    the mcas system is to get around recertification and retraining of pilots, the plane flies perfectly fine without it. not only was recert an extra cost to boeing but the training cost to the airlines.
    if i recall correctly it currently doesn't require recertification and training for the mcas is an addon. so that part really hasn't changed afaik (i would have to go check as its been a while).
    the real issue is that they botched the mcas system, didn't train pilots for the upgrade and then hid it from FAA.

    you keep trying to make out that the plane is a flawed design, which simply is not true.
    its only the MCAS addon which was flawed.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  8. #8
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    How Boeing’s 737 MAX Failed:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-boe...ed-11553699239

    The replacement engines more powerful and more fuel efficient and physically larger could not be mounted correctly and were placed further forward and higher up on the wings to increase the ground clearance this caused the aircraft to exhibit a stalling characteristic which was compensated for by a modified MCAS which was not engineered correctly and was a disaster waiting to happen as we have seen.

    The engines being too large and too powerful mounted differently to previous engines in the 737 series caused the MAX version of 737 to be inherently unstable.

    The combination of MCAS, the engine positioning and pilots trying to intervene caused the planes path in the sky to be like a huge roller coaster before diving into the ground.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 12-11-2021 at 06:35 PM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #9
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    How Boeing’s 737 MAX Failed:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-boe...ed-11553699239

    The replacement engines more powerful and more fuel efficient and physically larger could not be mounted correctly and were placed further forward and higher up on the wings to increase the ground clearance this caused the aircraft to exhibit a stalling characteristic which was compensated for by a modified MCAS which was not engineered correctly and was a disaster waiting to happen as we have seen.

    The engines being too large and too powerful mounted differently to previous engines in the 737 series caused the MAX version of 737 to be inherently unstable.

    The combination of MCAS, the engine positioning and pilots trying to intervene caused the planes path in the sky to be like a huge roller coaster before diving into the ground.
    not true at all, completely false, total misinformation. no doubt why your thread got deleted last time.

    the 737max is inherently stable.
    the ONLY reason for the MCAS system is the new engines cause it to be slightly different in handling (5% i think and only at extreme AOA) which means it fails FAA specs and would mean it would have to be classed as a new aircraft type. so basically a paper work issue.
    a simple fix is to throw MCAS out and cert it as a new aircraft, as its a STABLE aircraft and flies perfectly fine.

    with MCAS fixed, its all approved and back in the air. FAA and their overseas counterparts are not stupid enough to let an inherently unstable plane in the air.

    remember the MCAS system doesn't actually do anything whatsoever until the plane is at the limit of AOA and if the plane is at that limit the pilots have screwed up something major.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  10. #10
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Do You Remember The Previous Post About Boeing Plane Crashes

    Boeing have admitted they were to blame, the plane was faulty.

    This is fact, the details can be found on the internet including details of how and why the two 737 MAX's crashed with the same characteristic roller coaster motion seen on the radar following the flight path after take off.

    The combination of all the factors introduced by Boeing made it inevitable that sooner or later the plane would crash and it did more than once with Boeing still denying responsibility until now.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 13-11-2021 at 09:06 AM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

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