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  1. #1
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    Default Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

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    Soaring like an Eagle gary67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Yep creating a cross between racism and apartheid, the two things the party was formed to stop.

  3. #3
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Anti-vax.

    Yes two classes. The well and the soon to be dead or very sick.
    Ex-pctek

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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    Anti-vax.

    Yes two classes. The well and the soon to be dead or very sick.
    Yes, I don't understand it. Why would they not want to be vaccinated? Are they quite happy to catch the virus and die? Are they the sort of people that won't wear a mask either?

    Interestingly, there seemed to be no objection to 'flu, polio, TB and other vaccinations. I wonder what is different about the covid vaccination?
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  5. #5
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Don’t worry about the them, they will soon be vaccinated whether they like it or not because if you survive Covid you are considered Vaccinated.

    If they don’t survive it doesn’t matter.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    piroska and Roscoe how do you know those who have not been vaccinated are anti-vax? They may not want to take just this vaccine.
    The only people I see calling these people anti-vax are the media, the government and those like your self.
    You don't know why these people haven't taken the vaccine (neither do I), maybe they know something you or I don't, some are medical professionals who know more about the vaccine and virus than you or I.
    Have you asked these people why they don't want to take this vaccine? It would be best you find out why they don't want to take this vaccine before you make wild assumptions these people.
    You are going to look a bit silly if they prove to be right about the decision they have made.
    Maybe find some time and look on the internet and see what is happening in other countries that are highly vaccinated before you start having a go at people who have not been vaccinated.
    The biggest concern I am hearing from people I meet is how the government and the media are creating an environment that is forcing people to get vaccinated, not the vaccine itself, they have been willing to take the risk of taking a vaccine that has not been fully tested. They are concerned with what else may be forced on us. But that seems to not concern some people.
    You maybe willing to give up your freedoms but their are others who don't.
    From what I have heard them say it looks like Jacinda could unemployed after the next election.
    Last edited by Jeff; 06-11-2021 at 09:57 AM.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Jeff, I'm not having a go at people who have not been vaccinated. I don't really care if they catch covid and die. That's their choice - I just don't understand why they would not want to protect themselves and their loved one against a disease that can kill. It beggars belief.

    What is of concern, though, is that they are convincing others that may have been going to be vaccinated, not to have the jab.

    But you could be right. Perhaps they are just against this particular vaccine, although I can't understand why. If they are happy to have other vaccines ('flu etc) why not this one? Covid is deadly! I would have thought that is a very good reason to be vaccinated.

    You say that I might be willing to give up my freedoms but there are others who are not. Well, I don't see it at as a choice. Would you rather be free than safe? Me? I'd rather be safe. I'm looking forward to a few more years yet.

    So yes. I am vaccinated against covid, as well as a few other diseases as well. It does not make sense to be otherwise.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  8. #8
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    Jeff, I'm not having a go at people who have not been vaccinated. I don't really care if they catch covid and die. That's their choice - I just don't understand why they would not want to protect themselves and their loved one against a disease that can kill. It beggars belief.

    What is of concern, though, is that they are convincing others that may have been going to be vaccinated, not to have the jab.

    But you could be right. Perhaps they are just against this particular vaccine, although I can't understand why. If they are happy to have other vaccines ('flu etc) why not this one? Covid is deadly! I would have thought that is a very good reason to be vaccinated.

    You say that I might be willing to give up my freedoms but there are others who are not. Well, I don't see it at as a choice. Would you rather be free than safe? Me? I'd rather be safe. I'm looking forward to a few more years yet.

    So yes. I am vaccinated against covid, as well as a few other diseases as well. It does not make sense to be otherwise.
    Well put!

    There are surveys showing the data of reasons that people don't want the vaccination as well; this one from August from the Ministry of Health:


    20% of respondents not already vaccinated say they are unlikely to have a vaccine, the same figure as July. Of that 20%, 10% will “definitely not” get a vaccine (11% in July).
    Respondents aged 45-54 years who have not yet been vaccinated are the least likely to get a vaccine.
    The main reasons for being unsure or unlikely to get a vaccine continue to be concerns about:
    • long-term effects
    • safety
    • the vaccine not being effective against new variants
    • adverse reactions
    • whether the vaccine might affect their health in other ways - waiting to see if others have side effects.



    So we actually have a fair idea of why people say no and most of them sound ridiculous. 3.9 Billion people worldwide have had their first dose and of that 3.04 billion are fully vaccinated with the amount adverse reactions being absolutely tiny- in NZ we've given 7M+ doses total and out of that there have been 30,251 AEFI reports- of which only 1050 that Medsafe considered serious. That's a 0.015% rate of serious reports to doses.

    The vast majority of hospitalised cases are unvaccinated as well.

    If you're able to pass on some of the bullshit anti vax conspiracy theories that some members here spread, the facts explicitly state that:

    • You can still catch the virus being vaccinated but have are much less likely to have serious effects;
    • You are more likely to spread the virus being unvaccinated and pass it on to others;
    • Reports of adverse events occurring after a shot are rare;


    Short of having an exemption why wouldn't you vaccinate at this point? Those who don't are putting others at risk, with misinformation and bullshit fearmongering contributing a lot to this issue.

    You're also free not to take the vaccine- no one can force you to take it, that's your human right- but if you're willing to put the rest of us at higher risk for mostly unfounded crap reasons then it seems reasonable that society would judge one harshly. You're not free from responsibility and judgement for your decisions.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    baabits you say "You're also free not to take the vaccine- no one can force you to take it", I say threating to take away peoples livelihoods is a way forcing them to take it.
    If the government thought it was totally safe and could prove it to everyone's satisfaction then they would not need to make threats to get people to take it.

    It amazes me how other people think they can dictate to other people what they can do with there bodies. Also how willing they are to give up their rights at the first sign of trouble.
    It is at time like this where you find out what people are really like. We are told to be kind and respect other people, but I guess that it only when it suits them.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this how the rest of the world sees our beloved leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    baabits you say "You're also free not to take the vaccine- no one can force you to take it", I say threating to take away peoples livelihoods is a way forcing them to take it.
    If the government thought it was totally safe and could prove it to everyone's satisfaction then they would not need to make threats to get people to take it.

    It amazes me how other people think they can dictate to other people what they can do with there bodies. Also how willing they are to give up their rights at the first sign of trouble.
    It is at time like this where you find out what people are really like. We are told to be kind and respect other people, but I guess that it only when it suits them.
    You must have missed the last part- you're still responsible for your decisions. Why should the majority of society who are vaccinated be forced to take on the risk of those who refuse to? They put others at risk, they have a higher chance of getting sick and adding to the strain of the hospital system, cost the taxpayers more money and for what? Just so they can have their freedom of choice?

    The government could come out with a thousand studies showing how safe it is and many of these people would still say it's unsafe or find some other crazy dumbassery excuse not to take it. They've already shown statistic after statistic and study after study that the vaccine is safe, not to mention over half the world having taken it and all the statistics being public and it's still not enough.

    It is your body your choice- and if you choose not to take it don't expect any sympathy from me. I'm not dictating what you can do with your body, but I will sure as hell support any effort that pushes people who have no excuse not to be vaccinated to do so.

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