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  1. #11
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    I treat National, Labour, Greens in the same boat. Good or as bad as each other in power.

  2. #12
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    This is a cut and paste from Kiwiblog.nz which is generally a pro vax slightly right of centre site and although written in the USA is very close to describing what has/is happening here.

    Why Don’t They Believe Us?
    Konstantin Kisin writes:
    problem is thats a modified version of the original. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...nstantin-kisin

    its basically a mix of UK and USA wide range of non-covid related issues, with some bits missed out.
    it really doesn't apply to NZ and its basically anti-vax in itself.
    its anti-vax dressed up to look like "normal" then modified to address NZ issues.



    but one thing worth addressing is the mask usage.
    first of all no one here said masks don't work.
    however the understanding at the time was that the droplets that you breathe out that contain the virus is to big travel through the air.
    hence the 2m rule as those droplets fall to the ground. however that was incorrect and it took some scientists a bit of work to prove that.
    hence why there was a sudden change from hand washing to mandating the use of masks. it also means the 2m rule is not that big a deal.
    also keep in mind the supply chain of masks, there wasn't all that many available at the start. the only stockpiles was for hospitals (and nz stuffed that up).

    the "masks don't work" came from the anti-vax crowd. the same people who said vaccines could not be made, you all have to "live with it".
    but we can "protect our elderly", which the covid cases in the retirement home disprove.
    they wanted to let covid rip through the country to save our businesses, yet we end up with one of the best economies because we locked down and got rid of it.

    its the same people spouting the same antisocial nonsense. now they are trying make excuses to make them look like "disbelievers" and how its not their fault, as society turns against them.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  3. #13
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    2 things
    yep, I shudder to think what it would have been like under national . Open the boarders from day1 , before vaxs where available . We all know how that would have ended

    Labour have done a terrible job. Stumbling from one stuff up to another . Zero planning in advance .
    And its been recently leaked that labor honestly believed we wouldnt have a bad outbreak here, hence zero planning for that .

    Yes , covid is a no win situation for any govt, but thats not an excuse for lack of planning ahead .
    Not getting supplies of PPE, not getting our ICU capability ramped up, waiting 1year plus to do something about the shortages of nurses, doctors & specialists, not ordering enough vax (because they didnt think we needed it yet) , not having enough quarantine spaces : leaving many thousands of kiwis stuck overseas .
    They certainly havnt gotten the current Auckland outbreak under control.

    Hardly a great job , is it.
    yes, i don't think any govt would have done it any better.
    to many issues from previous govts.
    i'm no jacinda fan thats for sure (wasting millions on buying us new guns while people in their homes get shot at) but i can't see anyone else doing any better.
    covid is a unique situation thats caught a lot of countries off guard.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  4. #14
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    It will be interesting to look back in, say 10 years time, an see just who was right and who was wrong.

  5. #15
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    It will be interesting to look back in, say 10 years time, an see just who was right and who was wrong.
    the catch is people only remember the history they want.
    for eg its interesting reading some of the USA history and how much of what is commonly known today, is in fact inaccurate.

    no doubt that anti-vaxers will claim they where right, as many already do so. thats easy to do when you make it all up.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  6. #16
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Guess all the antivaxers are going to be screwed.

    When someone gives Blood are they going to have to confirm they have had the vaccine ?? If not - just tell any antivaxer that the blood products they are receiving contains the Covid vaccine. With 90% ( aiming for) of the population being vaccinated their option to get a vaccine free person is very slim

    What a shame

  7. #17
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post

    Konstantin Kisin writes:

    But the countryís chief medical experts tell you not to wear masks, and to focus on washing your hands instead.
    And the credibility of the whole article ends right there.

    What Country's Chief Medical Experts tell us not to wear masks, and to focus on washing your hands instead?
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  8. #18
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    And the credibility of the whole article ends right there.

    What Country's Chief Medical Experts tell us not to wear masks, and to focus on washing your hands instead?
    Read the whole thing BM. It is disingenuous to pick out one little bit and then quote that out of context. And if you are loosing your memory our NZ experts claimed exactly that anyway.

  9. #19
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    And if you are loosing your memory our NZ experts claimed exactly that anyway.
    Name them.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  10. #20
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    for eg its interesting reading some of the USA history and how much of what is commonly known today, is in fact inaccurate.
    .
    That's been true of all of history.
    Things said about Nero.
    The Neathanderthal.

    All sorts...winners write history.

    The US make movies about WWII events and attribute things the Uk did to themselves.

    Etc.
    Ex-pctek

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