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  1. #1
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    Default Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    This is a cut and paste from Kiwiblog.nz which is generally a pro vax slightly right of centre site and although written in the USA is very close to describing what has/is happening here.

    Why Don’t They Believe Us?
    Konstantin Kisin writes:

    You’re struggling to understand where all this vaccine hesitancy comes from. Let me help you.

    I was interested in this because I am puzzled by the level of vaccine hesitancy in the community. This is a US piece, but relevant elsewhere.

    You’re more concerned with how best to protect yourself and your family from this deadly disease than with its origins at this point anyway. You consider buying surgical masks, or using homemade ones—you’ve seen visitors and tourists from Asian countries wear them, and they’ve been through things like this before, so maybe it’s best to follow their lead.

    But the country’s chief medical experts tell you not to wear masks, and to focus on washing your hands instead. As lockdowns are introduced around the world, you diligently follow all the rules. You stay at home. You only go out once, and live off savings or government grants. You do your best to keep your hands clean, to not touch other surfaces that other people touch. Some political representatives make the solemn decision to shut down beaches, parks, and playgrounds, encouraging everyone to stay indoors.

    You are proud to be doing your part. Thanks to you and millions of your fellow citizens, the first wave of the pandemic overwhelms certain hot spots, but it does not devastate the health care system at a national level. While thousands sadly die, you’ve helped to protect those around you.

    Imagine your confusion as the same people who spent three months telling you not only that masks don’t work, but that there are several reasons you shouldn’t wear or purchase them, suddenly introduce mask mandates. We’re “following the science,” they tell you. This seems to make little sense, but a pandemic is no time for questions. And who knows, maybe our understanding of the science evolved?

    As you cautiously go to the supermarket, you notice that masks have made people less likely to socially distance. You remember reading somewhere that bicycle helmets work similarly: They give the wearer more confidence, and the result is often more accidents and injuries, not fewer. “Silly people,” you say to yourself. “If only they would follow the experts.”

    You turn on your TV and learn that shoppers at your local supermarket aren’t the only ones who have been ignoring the rules. Nancy Pelosi arranged for a salon, shutdown by government decree, to open privately for her—then publicly blamed the business owner for violating the lockdown. California Gov. Gavin Newsom is seen eating dinner at one of the most expensive restaurants in America with a large group of unmasked people indoors. In the U.K., Neil Ferguson, the epidemiologist whose projections were used as the basis for lockdowns, appears to have broken his own rules to get some action with his married lover. Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s chief adviser, Dominic Cummings, drove halfway across the country to ensure he had a better place to isolate. The journalists who berate him for this are later found to have attended an unmasked, indoor birthday party in breach of the rules. The lockdowns continue.

    And in NZ the then Minister of Health broke the rules.

    While the lockdown rules remain in place, the protests against injustice spill out into public spaces. Tens of thousands of people crowd into the streets of major cities. Few of them wear masks, and social distancing is nonexistent. Clashes with police ensue, and in the United States, protesters loot stores, destroy businesses, attack residents, and start fires. A retired African American police officer from St. Louis named David Dorn is among dozens of people who are murdered in the chaos.

    The media describes these events as “mostly peaceful protests,” as broadcast reporters stand in front of burning buildings.

    This actually happened.

    After months of harsh restrictions, the media and political class offer no criticism of protests that violate every element of lockdown policy.

    Same in NZ. Anti-racism protests are good during a lockdown, but anti-lockdown protests are bad.

    It is at this point that vaccines become the main focus of government policy and media commentary.

    The same people who told you Brexit would never happen, that Trump would never win, that when he did win it was because of Russian collusion but also because of racism, that you must follow lockdowns while they don’t, that masks don’t work, that masks do work, that social justice protests during pandemic lockdowns are a form of “health intervention,” that ransacking African American communities in the name of fighting racism is a “mostly peaceful” form of protest, that poor and underserved children locked out of shuttered schools are “still learning,” that Jussie Smollett was a victim of a hate crime, that men are toxic, that there is an infinite number of genders, that COVID couldn’t have come from a lab until maybe it did, that closing borders is racist until maybe it isn’t, that you shouldn’t take Trump’s vaccine, that you must take the vaccine developed during the Trump administration, that Andrew Cuomo is a great leader, that Andrew Cuomo is a granny killer, that the number of COVID deaths is one thing and then another … are the same people telling you now that the vaccine is safe, that you must take it, and that if you don’t, you will be a second-class citizen.

    There is a reason trust in traditional authority figures has declined

  2. #2
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    You consider buying surgical masks

    But the country’s chief medical experts tell you not to wear masks, and to focus on washing your hands instead.

    Imagine your confusion as the same people who spent three months telling you not only that masks don’t work, suddenly introduce mask mandates. We’re “following the science,” they tell you. And who knows, maybe our understanding of the science evolved?

    you notice that masks have made people less likely to socially distance. You remember reading somewhere that bicycle helmets work similarly: They give the wearer more confidence, and the result is often more accidents and injuries, not fewer.

    You turn on your TV and learn that shoppers at your local supermarket aren’t the only ones who have been ignoring the rules.

    And in NZ the then Minister of Health broke the rules.
    Tens of thousands of people crowd into the streets of major cities. Few of them wear masks, and social distancing is nonexistent.

    Same in NZ.

    It is at this point that vaccines become the main focus of government policy and media commentary.

    There is a reason trust in traditional authority figures has declined
    This is because people are idiots and can't do their own research.
    Masks and shutting down things will never work long term. IT screws the economies, especially now e have global trade, might have been OK in medieval villages...

    They never said don't wear a mask, masks were worn during the Spanish Flu...

    NZ plays catch up...the race for the vaccine began, NZ lagged.

    Finally we have it but some of the sheeple feel the need to ignore it and claim god is the answer (especially in the US, Cult Capital of the world) and too many spend their time reading and posting excuses online instead of just GETTING ON WITH getting their vaccine and ignoring the halfwits determined to win the Darwin Awards.

    We don't need some "expert" to tell us vaccines work, we've known this since about the 1300s.
    Ex-pctek

  3. #3
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Early on , for those breaking out of quarantine ,The courts had a harsh sentence rule for Maori (go to jail) and a lesser sentence for all the whites (no jail) . That actually happened, so no surprise maori have some distrust .

    Add to that the number of times the Govt simply lied to us so they wouldnt look so bad on their response & lack of planning.

    Then we have the % who are just conspiracy lovers . They would believe some dude on the internet over many thousands of scientists and medical experts .
    Humans love a good conspiracy it seems .

  4. #4
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    And how much of it is the media, pushing their own agenda? Only reporting half of a conversation, or ignoring stuff that wouldn't be a sensationalist headline?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    CliveM stop with the facts. It makes my brain hurt. Just let us live in our fantasy world where governments never get anything wrong, where media does not lie to us and The Last Jedi was the best movie ever made.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  6. #6
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    CliveM stop with the facts. It makes my brain hurt. Just let us live in our fantasy world where governments never get anything wrong, where media does not lie to us and The Last Jedi was the best movie ever made.

  7. #7
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Thank God we haven't got the plodding dinosaurs of the national party from last century running the show, they are incapable of being able to make good decisions without having the full information at any given time in the dynamic situation which the Covid crisis has presented as a challenge to running a modern economy.

    It is often necessary in emergency situations to have to make decisions over the direction to take with out having the full amount of information you would like to have because it doesn't actually exist as the scientific community is still working its way through the data.

    P.M. Jacinda Ardern and her team have been doing a great job so far in the changing situation which we are in. Needs young switched on individuals able to deal with the requirements presented by the Covid crisis and change direction and think on their feet not old plodding dinosaurs born in the middle of last century.

    This gives a rough ride to the citizens of the country some who put it down to incompetence in the present government but it's just real life at the moment presenting what may be insoluble problems and having to do something or be condemned for doing nothing.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 04-11-2021 at 01:09 PM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    zqwerty "P.M. Jacinda Ardern and her team have been doing a great job so far".



    Oh, your serious.

    even harder.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    Thank God we haven't got the plodding dinosaurs of the national party from last century running the show

    P.M. Jacinda Ardern and her team have been doing a great job so far in the changing situation which we are in.
    2 things
    yep, I shudder to think what it would have been like under national . Open the boarders from day1 , before vaxs where available . We all know how that would have ended

    Labour have done a terrible job. Stumbling from one stuff up to another . Zero planning in advance .
    And its been recently leaked that labor honestly believed we wouldnt have a bad outbreak here, hence zero planning for that .

    Yes , covid is a no win situation for any govt, but thats not an excuse for lack of planning ahead .
    Not getting supplies of PPE, not getting our ICU capability ramped up, waiting 1year plus to do something about the shortages of nurses, doctors & specialists, not ordering enough vax (because they didnt think we needed it yet) , not having enough quarantine spaces : leaving many thousands of kiwis stuck overseas .
    They certainly havnt gotten the current Auckland outbreak under control.

    Hardly a great job , is it.

  10. #10
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Why Some Are Disbelieving But Not Antivax.

    The Delta Plus version put a stop to any coherent strategy, couldn't beat it down to zero, too infectious and too many people breaking lock-down and visiting friends etc.

    So now we ride the tiger, no other option.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

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