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  1. #51
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    CliveM why are you wasting your time arguing with these people. They have made quite clear they are willing to throw their fellow human beings under the bus so they can feel safe.
    They don't care what decision you make about your life as long it is what they deem to be the right one. They don't care that you are the best person to make decisions about your life.
    They don't care about the people who around the world who have lost their lives or had their lives destroyed by the covid vaccine, as long as they feel safe. Anyway it is only a few people, it does not matter that they may have survived having covid. They are willing to ignore the fact that the vaccine has not been fully tested and that no one knows the long term effects of taking the vaccine.

    They don't care that the Bill Rights now appears to be not worth the paper it is written on. What other rights are they willing to lose so they can feel safe?

    There are now treatments becoming available for covid, lets ignore that because Jacinda and Ashley said we must all be vaccinated and they know what is best for everyone.
    Lets ignore the fact that the government is only now starting to increase ICU beds and hopefully making sure we are well supplied with the medications needed to treat the patients.

    Too hell with everyone else as long as I feel safe.
    How pathetic.

    Next thing you’ll be arguing that you should be able to drive on whichever side of the road you choose.

    Bill of Rights you know!
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  2. #52
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    My previous sentence -

    "Set up tent cities in parks close to Hospitals full to the brim with Covid patients to handle the overflow (Hagley Park Chch for instance), surround the tent cities with the Army with orders to shoot on sight anyone who tries to run away and rejoin the "uninfected" public."

    was not posted as a solution to the current problem but as a future vision of what will happen if people don't get vaccinated in a timely way or the virus "breakthrough infections" increase as the virus evolves.

    I can't understand how people can believe that their "rights" over-rule the rights of the majority (greater good) to have their best interests protected by the state even if a minority have to be penalized or forced by carrot or stick to follow the best scientific guidelines.

    If some die because of some complication with the vaccine it is still better than many dying due to the virus over-running us and this is what will happen if there are many anti-vaxers.

    New Zealanders only work well in teams if they are seen from outside and promoted as a special elitist group who surpass the ordinary individuals who are not in the team, ie All Blacks, the sailing team that has just abandoned us (NZ) for better pastures.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 19-10-2021 at 10:18 AM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #53
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    How pathetic.

    Next thing you’ll be arguing that you should be able to drive on whichever side of the road you choose.

    Bill of Rights you know!
    A classic straw man argument. You usually do better than that

  4. #54
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by kenj View Post
    Jeff, I agree that is people's right not to be forced to vaccinate against anything. Those people, in return, who are a minority must respect my rights not to have an illness passed to me.How they work that out is their problem. If necessary, carry a sign that says "Beware, not vaccinated" so that people will know to avoid them. Bit like the Lepers wearing identifiable clothing and rattling wooden clappers.

    This would protect the small % of people who, for various reasons can't be vaccinated.

    That's what it is to me, in a nutshell.

    Ken
    Maybe a Yellow Star Ken. That worked well for the Nazis didn't it.

  5. #55
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Hadn't thought of that. I will put your idea to the Pie Minster at one of her daily blah sessions.

    Ken

  6. #56
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    The needs of the group always over-ride the needs of the individual in order to maintain the`greater good, this is fundamental to a civilized society.

    I'm surprised it's even being questioned.

    All who will not/cannot be vaccinated need to be quarantined for as long as there is a risk to the majority.

    I can't believe people think they can do as they please with some crazy theories to justify their actions.

    Is this what too much American influence brings?
    Last edited by zqwerty; 19-10-2021 at 11:15 AM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #57
    C64 Rules
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    zqwerty

    "I can't understand how people can believe that their "rights" over-rule the rights of the majority (greater good) to have their best interests protected by the state even if a minority have to be penalized or forced by carrot or stick to follow the best scientific guidelines."

    I bet if your rights were being violated we would never hear the end of it.

    "If some die because of some complication with the vaccine it is still better than many dying due to the virus over-running us and this is what will happen if there are many anti-vaxers"

    I bet if you were the one dying because of an adverse reaction to the vaccine you would sing a different song. I am sure the people who have died because of a bad reaction to the vaccine feel reassured that it was good for the majority. It would be interesting to see you say that to the families and friends of the people who have died.

    "Is this what too much American influence brings?"

    Can we guess your political leaning? People shouldn't have freedom should they.

    Even in Star Trek (Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock) they had to admit that "sometimes the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many".
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  8. #58
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Still waiting for you to answer my question Jeff.

    Ken
    Corgi Ben Kenobi.......Related by Corgi to the Queen

  9. #59
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    That is exactly the way the Governments of Germany, Japan, Cambodia, China et al where able to convince their citizens that it was a good idea to wipe out the classes of people they disliked. Jews and Gypsies in Germanys case Intellectuals in others.
    .
    Yes, a good comparison is the murder of 4 Million jews. ( sarcasm )
    You should be ashamed to even compare to that .

    So in the past when TB was an real issue , we shouldnt have isolated them either I guess.

    Look at the measles outbreak quite recently , all because too many wouldnt vax their kids .
    So we had a 3rd world desease rear its ugly head in NZ because of antivaxers. And then it spread to the small Pacific Is nations . Because of NZ anti vaxers

    So , when you cant get an emergency operation after a stroke, head injury or heart attack , because all the ICU beds are full, you'll be OK with that .
    When you cant get you chemo therapy.....oh wait , thats allready happening because of covid
    You'll be OK giving your place in the hospital to someone who wouldnt get vaxed.

    And no one has EVER included the very few who CANT get vaxed for medical reasons. Of course they get an exception & ARNT lumped in with the anti vaxers

    AND , the issue is 2 sectors of the population who simply wont get vaxed . Wont , not cant.
    The sectors of society who are holding the whole population in Lockdown.

    Jacinda has stated the these minorities "wont be left behind"
    so we stay in lockdown until these minorities get to the 90% vax rate . We are waiting on them .

  10. #60
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Jeff

    I absolutely hate injections, blood tests, needles etc, knowing I have to get one spoils my life for days before worrying and visualizing the event, also I am allergic to lots of things so quite worried about vaccines in general, I still went and got my vaccination, now double vaccinated because I knew that my friends and close associates, as well as myself, would be at risk if I didn't.

    As for bad vaccine reactions, life is a lottery, you have to take chances, no such thing as 100% safety, whereas the virus almost guarantees that if you are older and not in the best of health you stand a good chance of getting very sick maybe even dying without the vaccine.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

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