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  1. #61
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Yes, a good comparison is the murder of 4 Million jews. ( sarcasm )
    You should be ashamed to even compare to that .

    So in the past when TB was an real issue , we shouldnt have isolated them either I guess.

    Look at the measles outbreak quite recently , all because too many wouldnt vax their kids .
    So we had a 3rd world desease rear its ugly head in NZ because of antivaxers. And then it spread to the small Pacific Is nations . Because of NZ anti vaxers

    So , when you cant get an emergency operation after a stroke, head injury or heart attack , because all the ICU beds are full, you'll be OK with that .
    When you cant get you chemo therapy.....oh wait , thats allready happening because of covid
    You'll be OK giving your place in the hospital to someone who wouldnt get vaxed.

    And no one has EVER included the very few who CANT get vaxed for medical reasons. Of course they get an exception & ARNT lumped in with the anti vaxers

    AND , the issue is 2 sectors of the population who simply wont get vaxed . Wont , not cant.
    The sectors of society who are holding the whole population in Lockdown.

    Jacinda has stated the these minorities "wont be left behind"
    so we stay in lockdown until these minorities get to the 90% vax rate . We are waiting on them .
    I was not comparing the murder of Jews but the sick attitudes of some individuals who would be quite ok with helping to load them on the trains to be gassed if it was to their own perceived personal benefit.
    Not being vaccinated does not mean diseased.
    In no way did I suggest that diseased individuals should not be kept isolated from the general population.
    I am totally against the selfish attitude that anyone should be refused the appropriate treatment for any illness or injury whether or not caused by their own behaviour just in case I should happen to require treatment at the same time.
    Just in case it has not been noticed we are not tripping over bodies on the way to the Supermarket just yet and of the 94 new community cases we have today 92 of them where not aware they had it and the other 2 thought they had a slight cold (yes I am in jest)
    I do not, as of right, own a place in hospital and should I ever require one I am quite OK with taking my turn regardless of who is there before me.

  2. #62
    C64 Rules
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by kenj View Post
    Still waiting for you to answer my question Jeff.

    Ken
    You mean this question

    "On a separate issue Jeff, you say...

    "They don't care about the people who around the world who have lost their lives or had their lives destroyed by the covid vaccine, as long as they feel safe"

    Where do you get this information from?"

    You have read this thread and the Anti-Vax thread?
    People in both these threads have made it quite clear that they don't care about the unfortunate few people who have lost their lives to the covid vaccine.
    Vaccines, etc are suppose to save lives, not take them.
    The comments left in these threads just show how uncaring some people can be when they are living in fear of their lives.
    You may not care about these people but I and others do. We all can't be uncaring bastards.

    Didn't our beloved Jacinda say to everyone to "be kind". Don't see much kindness these days.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  3. #63
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    A classic straw man argument. You usually do better than that
    It wasn’t a argument Clive, it was assumption I made having read Jeff's post.

    But it gets worse.

    Our intrepid leader instructs us to go and get a Jab!

    THESE looser’s interpret that as setting up an Orgy.

    Meanwhile, the police are called and they all stand around with their tongues hanging out.

    Give me strength!
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  4. #64
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    You mean this question

    "On a separate issue Jeff, you say...

    "They don't care about the people who around the world who have lost their lives or had their lives destroyed by the covid vaccine, as long as they feel safe"

    Where do you get this information from?"

    You have read this thread and the Anti-Vax thread?
    People in both these threads have made it quite clear that they don't care about the unfortunate few people who have lost their lives to the covid vaccine.
    Vaccines, etc are suppose to save lives, not take them.
    The comments left in these threads just show how uncaring some people can be when they are living in fear of their lives.
    You may not care about these people but I and others do. We all can't be uncaring bastards.

    Didn't our beloved Jacinda say to everyone to "be kind". Don't see much kindness these days.
    At the end of August, Message (NZ) posted the following figures after 2,188,771 Pfizer injections. Way past that now.
    .........,........................................ .....
    Summary of reported deaths
    Up to and including 7 August 2021, a total of 26 deaths were reported to CARM after the administration of the Comirnaty vaccine. Following medical assessments by CARM and Medsafe it has been determined that:

    17 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine
    4 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
    5 cases are still under investigation.
    By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly. Therefore, part of our review process includes comparing natural death rates to observed death rates following vaccination, to determine if there are any specific trends or patterns that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. There are currently no indications to suggest that the vaccine caused the deaths.

    To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths.

    Mortalities by age group up to and including 7 August 2021
    Age Mortalities
    10 - 29 years 0
    30 - 59 years 4
    60 - 79 years 10
    80+ years 12

    ,...............................................

    I do understand the pain of losing someone, and pretty well in any vaccine there are side effects. The price of 26 deaths, mainly elderly of which I am part of is a price we have to pay. When you look at the deaths, only 4 under the age of 60 and none under the age of 30. My doctor, who is a friend of mine tells me that because of my lungs, if I get the breakthrough Covid which is usually no worse than a really bad cold I could possibly die. Not because of the jab but that my lungs couldn't even possibly handle that. Co-morbidity it is called. Such is life! A young person would probably not even notice any problems.

    The benefit of vaccinations to me is that the more that are vaccinated the is a decreasingly less chance of being affected. For everyone!

    The thing I see happening, even in my own extended family is the Trumpian method of belief where they say "Of course it's true, it's all over the internet and Twitter. Idiots!

    Ken

    My information source. Please look at it. I was only interested in the deaths which seems to be the problem. Lots of other side effects.

    ... https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19...-report-23.asp
    Corgi Ben Kenobi.......Related by Corgi to the Queen

  5. #65
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    Jeff

    I absolutely hate injections, blood tests, needles etc, knowing I have to get one spoils my life for days before worrying and visualizing the event, also I am allergic to lots of things so quite worried about vaccines in general, I still went and got my vaccination, now double vaccinated because I knew that my friends and close associates, as well as myself, would be at risk if I didn't.

    As for bad vaccine reactions, life is a lottery, you have to take chances, no such thing as 100% safety, whereas the virus almost guarantees that if you are older and not in the best of health you stand a good chance of getting very sick maybe even dying without the vaccine.
    that sums it up pretty well.

    people complain about risk of dieing from vaccine, but we have people every week dieing from car crashes yet we still drive.
    the most risky part of the vaccine is driving to the vaccination centre.

    interesting on the news today that so many that are catching covid are under 40, and the amount of under 40's in critical care. so much for elderly people being high risk.
    its the unvaccinated that are high risk, and also the main spreaders of covid as well.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  6. #66
    Member Zippity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    dieing = dying

    there is no such word as "dieing"

    just thought you would like to know


  7. #67
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post

    people complain about risk of dieing from vaccine, but we have people every week dieing from car crashes yet we still drive.
    the most risky part of the vaccine is driving to the vaccination centre.

    its the unvaccinated that are high risk, and also the main spreaders of covid as well.
    But do we vaccinated care? They can spread it, but if you are unvaccinated, you're the ones likely to suffer, not the vaccinated.

    It's getting stupid, let them suffer, the rest need to resume their lives.



    Epidemiologist Tony Blakely says he's confident Auckland will be out of its COVID-19 lockdown by Christmas.

    The super city has now been in lockdown for 63 days.

    "You're nearly at 70 percent double vaccination - already in Melbourne, for example, at 70 percent we're starting to release," he told The Project.

    "For places like New Zealand or WA [Western Australia] for example, who haven't been living with the virus, you'd probably hold on to 80 percent before you let the lockdowns go - and then you'll ease out of them - still aiming for 90 percent [vaccination] by Christmas."

    Prof Blakely also said Aucklanders will be sick of lockdown.

    "They need to be let out at some stage - I don't think they can just hold on and on and on for the benefit of the rest of New Zealanders but, at the same time, if they come out at, say, 75 to 80 percent vaccination coverage - yes, it is likely to leak down to Waikato, then down to Wellington and it could spread. That is just the reality."

    Prof Blakely said the mentality around the vaccine has changed in Australia and believes it will in New Zealand too.

    "You can't just keep Aucklanders locked up in their cage until the rest of the country's got to 90 to 95 percent vaccination, in my view.'"

    Tayla Carpenter is the owner of Tayla'd Styling in Silverdale, on Auckland's North Shore.
    She has owned her salon for almost eight years but, as Auckland's lockdown drags into its 10th week, her financial stability is only getting shakier.

    "It's a huge burden hanging over our heads and not knowing if we can even survive this as a salon and the bills don't stop coming in.

    "it's still a least about $4000-$5000 in debt a week for me to carry on. So that's $35,000 already that I'm up to. It's starting to come out of my personal pockets as well and it's just not stopping. "

    The three-step roadmap out of level 3 for Auckland sees zoos and museums open before hairdressers, which Carpenter said is frustrating.

    "Being able to go to the zoo or the pools in phase two but you can't go to the hairdressers is just silly. "

    Carpenter employs five staff and resurgence payment but it isn't enough for a small business owner.

    "That doesn't cover everything and I'm at $35,000 now and counting and it's just a lot of debt take on. You've got your rates and your utilities and insurances and you know the list goes on."

    Salon owner and chair of the industry association Hair and Barber NZ Niq James said he wants hairdressers to be able to open .

    "You can't click and collect a haircut or Uber a haircut, so we actually can't make any money until we drop down ."

    He said Auckland will undoubtedly see salons close their doors as they struggle to make ends meet.

    When Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced Aucklanders could go on socially-distanced picnics with their friends, hairdressers were flooded with invitations for clients who wanted a cut.
    Ex-pctek

  8. #68
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    But do we vaccinated care? They can spread it, but if you are unvaccinated, you're the ones likely to suffer, not the vaccinated.

    It's getting stupid, let them suffer, the rest need to resume their lives.
    yes the vaccinated certainly do care.
    apart from simple human decently we don't want people to die.
    vaccination is not a cure, vaccinated people can still come down with bad covid symptoms and even die.
    plus clogging up our rather small health system causes problems for people with non-covid related problems.
    then you have the effect of businesses being shut down for cleaning etc.
    so we are very keen not to have covid spread around.
    its still very much in our best interests not to have covid spread around.
    the no1 spreader of covid will be unvaccinated people.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  9. #69
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    But do we vaccinated care? They can spread it, but if you are unvaccinated, you're the ones likely to suffer, not the vaccinated.

    It's getting stupid, let them suffer, the rest need to resume their lives.
    .....................
    He said Auckland will undoubtedly see salons close their doors as they struggle to make ends meet.
    the other thing is more unvaccinated people there is, the more restrictions that will be in place. which means businesses will struggle, people have to put up with restrictions etc.
    that will go on for a very long time. bare minimum of years.

    vaccination just helps a lot, but its not a cure.
    look at UK, they are triple jabbing and asking for Plan B because vaccines on its own doesn't work. it doesn't help that their vaccination rates are not all that high. (UK 1 dose 73%, 2 or more 67%, NZ 70% 55%)
    you need social distancing measures to work with vaccinations. the higher the vaccination rate the less other measures are required.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  10. #70
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Testing Thought Experiment

    Today at 10am the Pie Minster will announce the secret"Traffic Light" system of managing the Delta version of Covid-19. Obviously a PR exercise for her.

    What's the bet on the lack of penalties for passing an orange light or running the red. You only have to see what that totally inept judge did the other day when that useless turd tamaki appeared in her court for breaking conditions of his previous court appearance for organizing a large group of Stupids to protest against what the govt has decided in order to protect the majority of us.

    " Be nice" rings a bit hollow now. "Toughen up" would be far more intelligent....... but, see my other post on intelligence of public servants! Grrrrr!!

    Ken

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