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  1. #11

    Default Re: An interesting read,

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Jeeeez, I am utterly sick of people calling anyone who has an issue with a Maori “Racist”!

    I grew up with them, I went to school with them, I worked with them, and attended their Weddings and Funerals. By and large they are “bloody good people”.

    These Weirdos in Government who think they will get votes for treating Maori as inferior, and needing special privileges, are going to come a cropper because the Maori I associate with don’t see themselves as inferior in any way, and if you do, you tell them.

    The problem at Government level is activists with a drop of Maori blood and ulterior motives.

    So what’s the answer?

    Easy, if you have a New Zealand Passport or are entitled to a New Zealand passport, then you are a Kiwi.

    Colour, Class or Creed are of no interest.

    Now let’s cut the crap.
    I wholeheartedly agree!

    We had maoris at our school in the 50s and 60s and they were treated just the same as anyone else. While we knew that they were maori, we did not treat them any differently and neither did the teachers - they were just another mate.

    So I don't understand why things should be any different now. We also thought - and still do - that they are "bloody good people." We have a maori mate - he married my wife's cousin - and he is really a lovely guy. He smiles a big grin all the time. We really enjoy his company. And yet he is a traditional maori and keeps up the links with his extended maori family, but that does not make him any different from anyone else - he's just one of the guys who happens to be maori - and we love him.

    But that's not all. We also had Chinese boys and girls, and the same as the maoris they were not treated any differently from the rest of us. It did not matter. They were all brought up in the same neighbourhood, spoke the same languague, and we just accepted them as one of us. I don't see why that should be any different now.

    So I agree with you, BM. They are not inferior. Certainly they have their problems, but then doesn't everybody? We all need a bit of help.

    So, as you say, "let's cut the crap" and treat them like the normal lovely people that they are.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  2. #12
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree!

    We had maoris at our school in the 50s and 60s and they were treated just the same as anyone else. While we knew that they were maori, we did not treat them any differently and neither did the teachers - they were just another mate.

    So I don't understand why things should be any different now. We also thought - and still do - that they are "bloody good people." We have a maori mate - he married my wife's cousin - and he is really a lovely guy. He smiles a big grin all the time. We really enjoy his company. And yet he is a traditional maori and keeps up the links with his extended maori family, but that does not make him any different from anyone else - he's just one of the guys who happens to be maori - and we love him.

    But that's not all. We also had Chinese boys and girls, and the same as the maoris they were not treated any differently from the rest of us. It did not matter. They were all brought up in the same neighbourhood, spoke the same languague, and we just accepted them as one of us. I don't see why that should be any different now.

    So I agree with you, BM. They are not inferior. Certainly they have their problems, but then doesn't everybody? We all need a bit of help.

    So, as you say, "let's cut the crap" and treat them like the normal lovely people that they are.
    I think you’ll relate to this Roscoe.

    Many years ago I worked with chap from a highly respected Maori family.

    Now the family was extensive, and the Mother gave each of her children one Maori name and one English name. That was a fine gesture, but on top of that she alternated the order of the names, so if one had a Maori – English name the next child had a English – Maori name.

    You can see you couldn’t call this family Racist and one thing that used to annoy this mate was the Police who would advertise on the radio for an escaped prisoner as a “1/4 Caste Maori”.

    Why aren’t they looking for a 3/4 Caste Pakeha he would demand.

    Because that stupid 3/4 didn’t notice the door was open and is still in jail I’d reply and that would settle things down.

    How things have changed.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  3. #13
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    I can only speak from my own subjective experiences as a Maori child growing up here, but a lot of this is pretty painful to read.

    Just because you, as I'm assuming Europeans, don't see different treatment doesn't mean it wasn't or isn't there. Living proof right here. I still remember the police pulling over and photographing me for walking in town on the weekends but not my white friend who I was with, getting stopped and searched and questioned as a kid for being suspicious (which stopped when mum went down to the station and yelled at them), the librarian not believing me when I said the book in my bag was mine and forcing me to empty my bag to her in front of everyone, and a bunch of other stuff that honestly don't want to get in to. Have even seen news articles that some of this still goes on today. Is it possible it wasn't racially motivated? Sure, but it's still difficult thinking back to see it not being so. Gotta say though once we moved down to the South Island it felt very different. People were a lot more blunt but a lot more outgoing too, and it felt more free to walk around and be treated the same as everyone else.

    That being said I absolutely agree that the activist side of a lot of this stuff sometimes reaches levels of insanity that are cringeworthy. I don't think Maori should be compulsory though am always happy to see people trying to learn it and use it to keep it alive. Also agree that one's best method for getting past them is to put their head down and get on with it, but after going through it, I don't blame people for wanting to try and change it, even if their methods are sometimes misguided.

    I guess that's why, for example, I reacted harshly when I read Roscoe's pot shot at the language by entitling his thread about Simon on TVNZ using Maori as a caveman language- not to say Roscoe wasn't being a dickhead because they were, but different experiences contribute to how you react in different ways.

    Just hope that you realise that this isn't all noise and that you won't just simplify things down to "no one was treated different to the rest of us" because you can't possibly know that.

    2c.

  4. #14
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    And just quickly, none of the above was really meant to offend in anyway- could have written it better, but just wrote it from the heart. Might have gone off topic a little. Just another point of view to consider. Thanks

  5. #15
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    And just quickly, none of the above was really meant to offend in anyway- could have written it better, but just wrote it from the heart. Might have gone off topic a little. Just another point of view to consider. Thanks
    Baabits, may I suggest you don’t sweat on your childhood and adolescence.

    I had my backside kicked by the “Local Police”, “Maori Wardens” and worst of all “My Father”.

    I never considered being thrown out of a Pub by a Maori Warden racist.

    I considered it inevitable.

    Getting older is “Character Building” stuff.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  6. #16
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Baabits, may I suggest you don’t sweat on your childhood and adolescence.

    I had my backside kicked by the “Local Police”, “Maori Wardens” and worst of all “My Father”.

    I never considered being thrown out of a Pub by a Maori Warden racist.

    I considered it inevitable.

    Getting older is “Character Building” stuff.
    I can't really agree with that.

    Building a better society requires reflection on the good and bad parts, but here the toughen up mentality sweeps a lot of things that shouldn't be happening under the rug. Often times we justify things that really shouldn't be happening as it happened to me and I turned out ok so you'll be fine too.

    If I had deserved punishment then sure, but a lot of it was out of no fault of my own. I certainly don't want my own kids to have to experience that, which is the main motivating factor for considering these things.

    Living overseas for an extended period of time, especially in the US (not the southern states) has made me realise that kiwi kindness is often skin deep. A little more empathy in our society would go a long way.

  7. #17
    Seasoned Member allblack's Avatar
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    Default Re: An interesting read,

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    but here the toughen up mentality sweeps a lot of things that shouldn't be happening under the rug
    What toughen up mentality? Everything these days seems about having a cry and getting in touch with your sensitive inner-soul.

    We have the likes of Kirwan wanting us to hug everyone and everything, and the current buzzword 'mental health' is bandied around everywhere.

    There no 'toughen up' anymore. These days it's all about hugs, abdicating personal responsibility, and instead of working through life's challenges and doing the hard-yards, just blame "mental health" and take the easy road.

  8. #18

    Default Re: An interesting read,

    The following is also an interesting read: https://spectator.com.au/2021/10/kiw...nZ9V7pTOFoYCiQ
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

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