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Thread: ANti-Vax

  1. #21
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    tweak'e "herd immunity can be achieved whether the population is vaccinated or unvaccinated." is not bogus. As I stated vaccinated and unvaccinated both can catch Covid and pass it on. This has been reported in the media and I have not seen anyone disputing this.
    To achieve herd immunity the majority of the population has to have antibodies for Covid, either through natural immunity or by vaccination. The present vaccine does not kill the virus, even if everyone has the present vaccine the virus will still be around.

    I see you are assuming that vaccinated people will catch it off unvaccinated people. As I have mentioned vaccinated people can catch the virus and pass it on, even to other vaccinated people. It is known that vaccinated people carry the same virus load as unvaccinated people. Catching and passing on the virus is the same for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

    You may not like the facts but that's how it is.

    Also do you want to explain to me why the government and media don't seem to want to tell us how the research into curing people who have Covid is getting on. There seem to have been successful treatments of Covid patients around the world but we don't seem to be hearing about them. Is our government looking into this? Or are they banking on the vaccine to be the big savior.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  2. #22
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    I am sitting here reading this thread and wondering if any of us would be here to have this discussion if we had relied on “Heard Immunity” to solve the TB problem, let alone the other diseases already mentioned.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  3. #23
    Old guy
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    This subject is becoming like Politics and Religion which as my Grandmother used to say should not be bought up for discussion in polite company. Perfectly rational people can have quite different opinions and there is no way some of them will ever change their minds no matter what evidence is put before them.
    If you can, prove these points wrong.
    Two of the most heavily vaccinated countries in the world, Israel and Iceland still have very high infection rates.
    In no two similar countries or States where one has locked down and the other has not has there been any significant difference in health outcomes.
    No country or State has eliminated the virus.
    Ivermectin which was sneeringly dismissed as a veterinary treatment by our experts is prescribed for human use by doctors here in NZ for some ailments and that treatment is credited, along with others, of stopping wide spread infection and death in India. (there is no way I would recommend importing or self treating with that drug or any other for that matter)

  4. #24
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    CliveM I have heard of a least 1 doctor here in NZ that has proscribed Ivermectin. From what I seen it is proscribed in combination with other drugs, not on it's own.

    My concerns are with people taking medication without consulting their doctors. Like with all medications some people can have bad side effects, I would like it if we don't cause some people unnecessary and avoidable problems.

    Also I don't like the apparent trend to want to ostracise people, who for whatever reason, who have decided not to take vaccine. It is their decision to make not mine or anybody else's. Their medical decisions and histories are personal and private information, also none of my business.

    Those who are out there demanding everyone get vaccinated, what are they going tell the people, their friends and family, if they have adverse reaction to the vaccine.
    For some of these people, oops sorry won't cut it.
    Last edited by Jeff; 24-09-2021 at 08:15 AM.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  5. #25
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    AND from the news -- well this worked out well for her didn't it. NOT !!! Feel sorry for the kids.

    mother-of-four-who-proudly-proclaimed-her-anti-vax-status-dies-of-covid
    Last edited by wainuitech; 24-09-2021 at 08:16 AM.

  6. #26
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    To achieve herd immunity the majority of the population has to have antibodies for Covid, either through natural immunity or by vaccination.
    the catch is that getting antibodies from catching covid is highly variable, including getting so little it gives very little to no protection and it could kill you the 2nd time around.
    one of the key points to a vaccine is to give reliable results.

    I see you are assuming that vaccinated people will catch it off unvaccinated people. As I have mentioned vaccinated people can catch the virus and pass it on, even to other vaccinated people. It is known that vaccinated people carry the same virus load as unvaccinated people. Catching and passing on the virus is the same for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
    "Catching and passing on the virus is the same for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people."
    absolutely not. thats completely false, total misinformation.
    its well proven that the transmission rate drops significantly when your vaccinated.

    think about how vaccines and immunity works.
    unvaccinated people's bodies need to find the virus and then learn how to kill the virus, that takes time. that gives time for the virus to spread to someone else.
    with vaccinated, or natural immunity, the body has a head start, that time is greatly reduced so they have less time to spread it.
    its also the same reason vaccinated people do not get as sick, as their body kills off the virus quickly before it can build up damaging amounts.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  7. #27
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    Perfectly rational people can have quite different opinions and there is no way some of them will ever change their minds no matter what evidence is put before them.

    Therefore....they are not rational.
    Defiance in the face of overwhelming evidence just makes you an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarameaDave View Post
    No one fears smallpox now because vaccination rendered it ineffective.
    True, but they went worldwide, into remote areas....when word of a case popped up they went to this remote village and vaccinated everyone other than the sufferer.
    He did survive but that was the last report of smallpox cases. They hunted it down.
    Ex-pctek

  8. #28
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post

    Those who are out there demanding everyone get vaccinated, what are they going tell the people, their friends and family, if they have adverse reaction to the vaccine.
    For some of these people, oops sorry won't cut it.
    people die from surgery, infections caught in hospitals, meds etc, all the time.
    we don't withhold live saving medicines just because there is a tiny tiny remote chance someone might die from it.
    its always a case of acceptable risk.

    if you happen to be the 1 in 1 billion person who dies from it, it sucks to be you. tough.
    the risk is still lower than dieing from covid.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  9. #29
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post

    True, but they went worldwide, into remote areas....when word of a case popped up they went to this remote village and vaccinated everyone other than the sufferer.
    He did survive but that was the last report of smallpox cases. They hunted it down.
    that may happen with covid, but we are right at the early stages of this so its a wild guess at best on how this will play out.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  10. #30
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    The covid vax significantly lowers the chance of death or hospitalization.
    Thats its , that all you need to know.

    Just look at history, look at what happened when some cities hospitals couldnt cope with major covid outbreaks.
    Thats what NZ should be afraid of. Our hospitals wont cope (they cant cope now)

    If covid gets out of control, When the NZ hospitals run out of beds & ventilators , people will who could otherwise be saved will literally be left to die .
    assuming we dont get vax rates up.

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