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Thread: ANti-Vax

  1. #71
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post

    you already know millions upon millions have already had it with no issue and the risk is so low thats its not worth even worrying about.
    you will be absolutely fine, so lets get it done.
    Got to correct the "millions" bit. Now up to 6.1 billion doses. That means 1. nearly half the world's population has had 1 dose, or, 2, a quarter of the world population has had ,2 doses or, 3. Somewhere in between 1 & 2

    And yet people are saying that it's not been fully tested yet. I would have thought anything would have shown after that many vaccinations.

    Go get it folks!

    Ken
    Corgi Ben Kenobi.......Related by Corgi to the Queen

  2. #72
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    this is not about a belief. its about science and getting the job done.
    you need to put yourself aside for a moment and do whats best for everyone.
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    "Beyond their substantial protection of individual vaccines, coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines might reduce viral load in breakthrough infection and thereby further suppress onward transmission. In this analysis of a real-world dataset of positive severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) test results after inoculation with the BNT162b2 messenger RNA vaccine, we found that the viral load was substantially reduced for infections occurring 1237 d after the first dose of vaccine. These reduced viral loads hint at a potentially lower infectiousness, further contributing to vaccine effect on virus spread."

    I note they use the word "might" and "hint at", they do not say that the vaccine definitely reduces the spread of the virus.
    Mine you as there are very few studies in to this at present there will not be enough information for them to make a definitive statement. They are also most likely covering their asses if they are wrong.

    What do you think the effect of a reduced viral load will ultimately be? Most studies use language like this, using possibility for a prediction and definitives for the data.

    Did you only read the first one?

    Second one:

    We used a definition of vaccination status of the index case as having been vaccinated 21 days or more prior to testing, as a summary measure for both vaccines. Three different analytical approaches (logistic regression, matched case-control and stratified cohort) compared index cases vaccinated 21-35 days before a positive test with index cases vaccinated 1-10 days before positive test; all 3 methods showed reductions in transmission for vaccination 21-35 days before a positive test with both vaccines in keeping with their previous ORs. These results lend confidence to the overall conclusion that vaccination reduces transmission, as the comparison is restricted to index cases that have received a particular vaccine, varying only in the timing of vaccination before testing positive.
    Fourth one:

    Evidence suggests the U.S. COVID-19 vaccination program has substantially reduced the burden of disease in the United States by preventing serious illness in fully vaccinated people and interrupting chains of transmission. Vaccinated people can still become infected and have the potential to spread the virus to others, although at much lower rates than unvaccinated people. The risks of SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people are higher where community transmission of the virus is widespread. Current efforts to maximize the proportion of the U.S. population that is fully vaccinated against COVID-19 remain critical to ending the COVID-19 pandemic.
    But alas, you see and emphasize what you want to see.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    tweak'e you better hope science has gotten it right. You will look a bit silly if in the future it gets shown we have gotten it wrong. It is not like science has gotten it wrong before.
    You say "you need to put yourself aside for a moment and do what's best for everyone." Everyone or you?
    It seems you don't give a damn about what other people might want or what's best for them as long it is what you want. Where do you get to decide what is best for others?

    As for you claiming I'm anti-vax because I am using "ant-vax arguments", boy what a stretch. Have I told you or anyone not to get vaccinated? No I haven't.
    All I have argued for is people check with their doctors before getting vaccinated and for people not to be ostracized because they have decided, for whatever reason, not to get vaccinated. At least I know enough that I don't know everything about this virus, so I have not told anyone to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.
    You seem to have decided you know what's best for everyone. I just hope there is no one close to you that has an adverse reaction to the vaccine because they didn't get proper medical advise.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  4. #74
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    tweak'e you better hope science has gotten it right. You will look a bit silly if in the future it gets shown we have gotten it wrong. It is not like science has gotten it wrong before.
    Science gets it right far more often than it gets it wrong. When the science behind something is wrong it is usually quickly pointed out and corrected due to the fact that data is open and everyone can see it. This is a common anti-vax argument and is kind of pathetic to be honest- if you think the data, conclusions and predictions are wrong then it's there for you to make your case instead of trying to poke holes in everyone's argument and ignore common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    You say "you need to put yourself aside for a moment and do what's best for everyone." Everyone or you?
    It seems you don't give a damn about what other people might want or what's best for them as long it is what you want. Where do you get to decide what is best for others?
    You keep saying you're not a medical professional and that people should consult their doctors- no one here is saying that you shouldn't. But the vast, vast majority of medical professionals recommend getting vaccinated as soon as possible, the amount of cases where people have had a serious adverse reaction here are very, very low (15596 AEFI reports of adverse reactions, 602 of which medsafe considered serious, out of 3,857,146 total jabs, so about 0.4% total reported adverse reactions and 0.01% serious).

    Everyone is free to do whatever they want. One is free not to get the vaccine if they don't want to, and if one chooses not to without a good reason (which is most people who refuse to get vaccinated considering the polling data vs the above reports) then I'm free to think they're *******s who are selfish and irresponsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    As for you claiming I'm anti-vax because I am using "ant-vax arguments", boy what a stretch. Have I told you or anyone not to get vaccinated? No I haven't.
    All I have argued for is people check with their doctors before getting vaccinated and for people not to be ostracized because they have decided, for whatever reason, not to get vaccinated. At least I know enough that I don't know everything about this virus, so I have not told anyone to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.
    You seem to have decided you know what's best for everyone. I just hope there is no one close to you that has an adverse reaction to the vaccine because they didn't get proper medical advise.
    I think you just don't like people telling you what to do. If someone doesn't have a valid prior reason not to get inoculated then as a society we should be pressuring them to do so.
    Last edited by baabits; 26-09-2021 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    Science gets it right far more often than it gets it wrong. When the science behind something is wrong it is usually quickly pointed out and corrected due to the fact that data is open and everyone can see it. This is a common anti-vax argument and is kind of pathetic to be honest- if you think the data, conclusions and predictions are wrong then it's there for you to make your case instead of trying to poke holes in everyone's argument and ignore common sense.
    Science has avery long history of getting things wrong usually as time goes by further study does produce a correct version of whatever but even then it is only the best known at that point in time. It is not achieved by consensus but by verifiable results. There is also the problem that if you pay enough you can find an expert to say anything you desire especialy so when their reputation is at stake.

    Do not take this the wrong way Babbits but are you in some way connected to our current government? Ignore that if you think it inappropriate.

  6. #76
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    Science has a very long history of getting things wrong usually as time goes by further study does produce a correct version of whatever but even then it is only the best known at that point in time. It is not achieved by consensus but by verifiable results. There is also the problem that if you pay enough you can find an expert to say anything you desire especially so when their reputation is at stake.
    while our science procedures are substantially better than they where 100 years ago, yes you do get fake studies from time to time. generally they get condemned by other scientists.
    actually my industry is effected by one. one faked study out of 5 good ones. guess which one all the greenies jump on. then all the sheep bleat at govts, then decision get made due to political pressures not science, and we end up products being banned and having to use untested 2ndary products which can have who knows what results. product substitutions is a risky game to play.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  7. #77
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    tweak'e you better hope science has gotten it right. You will look a bit silly if in the future it gets shown we have gotten it wrong. It is not like science has gotten it wrong before.
    You say "you need to put yourself aside for a moment and do what's best for everyone." Everyone or you?
    It seems you don't give a damn about what other people might want or what's best for them as long it is what you want. Where do you get to decide what is best for others?

    As for you claiming I'm anti-vax because I am using "ant-vax arguments", boy what a stretch. Have I told you or anyone not to get vaccinated? No I haven't.
    All I have argued for is people check with their doctors before getting vaccinated and for people not to be ostracized because they have decided, for whatever reason, not to get vaccinated. At least I know enough that I don't know everything about this virus, so I have not told anyone to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.
    You seem to have decided you know what's best for everyone. I just hope there is no one close to you that has an adverse reaction to the vaccine because they didn't get proper medical advise.
    no one likes to admit they have been had., unfortunately you have gone down the anti-vac rabbit hole, sucked in hook line and sinker.
    but thats ok, everyone gets it wrong now and then, thats all ok.
    fortunately its not to late, we can get this job done so we can get back some sense of normality without turning into the horror shows thats overseas in many places.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  8. #78
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    tweak'e you are must have clairvoyance being able to see that things are going to work out the way you want them to. Can you tell me what this weeks winning Lotto numbers will be.

    So it is clear you are just going reject out of hand any argument that goes against your narrative.

    I hope at least that I have got some people to do their homework before they make their decision, either way. And that they are comfortable with their decision and are not the one of the few people who have an adverse side effect.
    Last edited by Jeff; 26-09-2021 at 08:37 PM.
    Carlos maybe king, but Merts is God!!

  9. #79
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveM View Post
    Science has avery long history of getting things wrong usually as time goes by further study does produce a correct version of whatever but even then it is only the best known at that point in time. It is not achieved by consensus but by verifiable results. There is also the problem that if you pay enough you can find an expert to say anything you desire especialy so when their reputation is at stake.

    Do not take this the wrong way Babbits but are you in some way connected to our current government? Ignore that if you think it inappropriate.
    No- I read the data and come to conclusions based on it and based on the various arguments that people smarter than I am put forward.

    Given how often you've made statements about covid that fly flat in the face of obvious truth I don't expect you to understand this though, and riding straight down the conspiracy hole is not unexpected.

  10. #80
    Old guy
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    Default Re: ANti-Vax

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    No- I read the data and come to conclusions based on it and based on the various arguments that people smarter than I am put forward.
    Well if you were a government spin merchant you would say that wouldn't you? As does tweak'e you do appear to suffer from the god like delusion that you can see inside others heads and know exactly what they think and or believe. You cannot!

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