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  1. #11
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    pre-release / insider versions may have relaxed requirements .

    You tried a pre-release/insider version . Not the same as what the final retail version will be. Its a test version .
    The Insider Versions do have the restrictions ( if you download the actual ISO) , BUT at the moment the "fixes / Work arounds" are still active. How long for -- Who knows.

  2. #12
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    I think this whole system requirments thing is been blown out of proportion... Windows 10 will still be around until 2025... so why stress about being able to run Windows 11 on current hardware... 2 things are likely to happen...

    1) Microsoft will change the requirements for TPM to be at a minimum the TPM included on most modern CPU's - ergo by the time we get to 2025... the tech and its implementation for this is likely to be a far bit better than it is today.
    2) Desktop motheboard manufacturers (and I'm not talking about System Intergrators such as Dell HP etc) will likely start including onboard TPM chips for their motherboards in future in which case we will see a price hike but that would also help the transition Windows 11 is hailing. So unless you're a die-hard custom PC builder i.e. you typically buy pre-built brand name computers/laptops you probably don't have anything to worry about... another thing to also keep in mind is that for System Integrators/OEMs (HP/Dell etc) their OEM licensee "conditions" require them to ensure that MS Windows is installed and works...they cannot sell a system without an installed copy of the OS because that is what's required under their OEM license.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnz View Post
    I think this whole system requirments thing is been blown out of proportion... Windows 10 will still be around until 2025... so why stress about being able to run Windows 11 on current hardware... 2 things are likely to happen...

    1) Microsoft will change the requirements for TPM to be at a minimum the TPM included on most modern CPU's - ergo by the time we get to 2025... the tech and its implementation for this is likely to be a far bit better than it is today.
    2) Desktop motheboard manufacturers (and I'm not talking about System Intergrators such as Dell HP etc) will likely start including onboard TPM chips for their motherboards in future in which case we will see a price hike but that would also help the transition Windows 11 is hailing. So unless you're a die-hard custom PC builder i.e. you typically buy pre-built brand name computers/laptops you probably don't have anything to worry about... another thing to also keep in mind is that for System Integrators/OEMs (HP/Dell etc) their OEM licensee "conditions" require them to ensure that MS Windows is installed and works...they cannot sell a system without an installed copy of the OS because that is what's required under their OEM license.
    I think it's more than we have small generational increments in performance to the point where even 2nd and 3rd gen core processors are still perfectly fine for average use today and will be for the foreseeable future. They run 10 great and have shown to run 11 just as fast.

    I doubt Microsoft will lower the TPM requirements but they might allow in 7th gen CPUs.

    Even by the time we get to 2025 those older machines would still be perfectly adequate for day to day web browsing, word processing, watching netflix, listening to music, etc, Ivy Bridge can even play 4K video fine. They might break by then but being old isn't a reason to lock them out and that has been true for all of Windows history. This isn't like Vista and our PC's aren't powerful enough to run it, it's more like forced obsolescence. It's understandable why people would be upset over the requirements. PC's that we have built since the Core i series have been out are much faster, more reliable and have better longevity than what previous generations of CPUs have been and there's a limit to how much power most users need.

    The TPM 2.0 requirement also seemed to be last minute- they initially said that TPM 1.2 would be fine and then back tracked.

    It's hard not to see this as them forcing people to eventually upgrade for no reason at all.

    But this is crappy Microsoft messaging as per normal. They can never seem to get it right no matter which department it is.
    Last edited by baabits; 16-07-2021 at 01:31 AM.

  4. #14
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    This isn't like Vista and our PC's aren't powerful enough to run it,
    Interesting comment that Yesterday I supplied a low Spec laptop to a customer, I advised it was low but she said its fine for her and what she wanted.

    Ran the W11 Checkers - and it passed with flying colors, 100 % Compatible. Its basic Specs -- Pentium 1.1 CPU, 4GB Ram, 128SSD Drive.

    So its not how much grunt the PC's have.

  5. #15
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Please , lets stop this conspiracy nonsense . The Hardware Requirements is not a plan to force us to buy new PC's
    Its about making Win less of a malware magnet , and more reliable
    Should we still allow old CPUs that had known security issues . ?
    Should MS do what it used to & allow hopelessly under specced hardware ?

    so, take a deep breath , take off the tin foil hats

    https://blogs.windows.com/windows-in...-requirements/

    "Security. Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.

    Reliability. Devices upgraded to Windows 11 will be in a supported and reliable state. By choosing CPUs that have adopted the new Windows Driver model and are supported by our OEM and silicon partners who are achieving a 99.8% crash free experience."


    These I dont like
    720p Monitor. Just why ?? There will be instances when a older lower spec monitor would have been all thats needed (eg , a PC that just runs in the background & ONLY use monitor when starting it)

    "Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to complete device setup on first use."
    This is MS telling us We dont own the software , we ONLY bought a license to use it. So its follow MS's way or bugger off .
    No internet when 1st setting up, then you can can bugger off as well .

  6. #16
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Please , lets stop this conspiracy nonsense . The Hardware Requirements is not a plan to force us to buy new PC's
    Then please explain what needs to be done if someone has a PC that doesn't meet the requirements and wants to use W11 & the hardware / Settings cant be altered to allow it to run ??

    The average user wont have a clue how to bypass restrictions etc. ( even some more experienced wont be able to do it).

    As for the Malware --- That's still not going to stop people clicking things and getting infected, most of the infections dealt with are Software based, not BIOS level. AND to be honest there's very little repairs relating to malware these days, the majority of my work is hardware related.

    This is MS telling us We dont own the software , we ONLY bought a license to use it.
    We DONT own the software, its always been that way you are only licensed to use it.

    from the terms and conditions:
    License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement.
    heres what you agree to when clicking "I Accept" https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...10_English.htm
    Last edited by wainuitech; 16-07-2021 at 11:00 AM.

  7. #17
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    All good points Wainui...

    I think they pulled the trigger too soon on "announcing" Windows 11 and then made things worse by stating the "requirements" which has no caused an unneccessary uproar.

    As per my previous post... This is a storm in a tea cup...by the time Windows 11 goes mainstream the so called "fears/complaints" people have now will be a moot point.

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  8. #18
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Then please explain what needs to be done if someone has a PC that doesn't meet the requirements and wants to use W11 & the hardware / Settings cant be altered to allow it to run ??

    The average user wont have a clue how to bypass restrictions etc. ( even some more experienced wont be able to do it).
    If someone has a PC that dosnt meet system requirements , they keep using Win10. Its that simple.
    My fax machine doesnt meet requirements , I dont expect MS to drop requirements for my old hardware .
    Sure , I was annoyed that my Ryzen didnt originally meet spec, but thats really just too bad (for me). I didnt HAVE to have Win11 on that PC .

    For the average user..
    Bypassing hardware requirements via some ~hack~ is just asking for future problems (unless you know what youre doing or dont really care )
    So the average user should never have that done on their PC's , as they might one day find Win refusing to load.
    MS has a recent history of closing off hacks to do things that MS didnt want : eg , all the update disabling ~hacks~ that were one by one negated by MS .

    Win11 should be about moving forward into the next 5 years , not looking back and being cobbled by old hardware .
    If Win11 is designed to use features only found in recent CPU's , why is that so bad ?

    Do we go back to allowing 2Gb of RAM, so my old laptop can run it ?
    MS should be Congradgulated for not having hardware specs so low that it runs like a dog.
    Perhaps they should have made SSD's a requirement .
    Last edited by 1101; 16-07-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    If someone has a PC that dosnt meet system requirements , they keep using Win10. Its that simple.
    My fax machine doesnt meet requirements , I dont expect MS to drop requirements for my old hardware .
    Sure , I was annoyed that my Ryzen didnt originally meet spec, but thats really just too bad (for me). I didnt HAVE to have Win11 on that PC .

    For the average user..
    Bypassing hardware requirements via some ~hack~ is just asking for future problems (unless you know what youre doing or dont really care )
    So the average user should never have that done on their PC's , as they might one day find Win refusing to load.
    MS has a recent history of closing off hacks to do things that MS didnt want : eg , all the update disabling ~hacks~ that were one by one negated by MS .

    Win11 should be about moving forward into the next 5 years , not looking back and being cobbled by old hardware .
    If Win11 is designed to use features only found in recent CPU's , why is that so bad ?

    Do we go back to allowing 2Gb of RAM, so my old laptop can run it ?
    MS should be Congradgulated for not having hardware specs so low that it runs like a dog.
    Perhaps they should have made SSD's a requirement .
    And once Win 10 goes out of support, the machine stops getting security updates, and according to Microsoft's messaging isn't safe to use anymore even though it is perfectly capable of running Windows 11 fine. That's literally forced obsolescence. It's not tin foil hat nonsense, what the hell are you talking about? The 4GB of RAM barrier is a reasonable one. Forcing out generations of CPUs that have otherwise proven to run Win 11 perfectly fine for the sake of a TPM that most of the users who are being forced to upgrade won't utilize outside obscure features is not reasonable

    And I don't care about your rant about not owning the software either- when a company starts pulling bullshit tricks like this then you call it out, and it's certainly not tin foil hat nonsense. Don't make me out to be a conspiracy theorist just because you disagree.

  10. #20
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    ....
    when a company starts pulling bullshit tricks like this then you call it out, and it's certainly not tin foil hat nonsense. Don't make me out to be a conspiracy theorist just because you disagree.
    Not entirely sure what you mean by "BS tricks" - Microsoft's move into TPM is actually a valid and very sensible one... I work in the IT industry and you'd be surprised how many users in a corporate environment click on things they shouldn't... I have dealt with situations where ransomeware got through a number of countermeasures and was actually stopped because of the TPM chip on the machine blocking the ransomware from writing to the boot sector... so the use case is certainly there.

    Now take that same scenario into a home user environment, no firewalls/no proxy/no IDS/no IPS etc... just standard Anti-virus/Internet Security...the chances of ransomeware infecting more machines is a lot higher...

    TPM makes the OS more resiliant to "unathorised changes" from malicious sources so that's not a bad thing...

    People have jumped to silly conclusions in regard to Windows 11 without actually truly understanding what is actually behind the step change... this was not helped by Microsoft's poor messaging as usual.

    As for the argument of just wanting to run things on a lower spec machine because "that's all you need" that's fine too... but at some point that hardware just like the OS it runs is going to go end-of-life.

    3rd time I'm going to say this... by the time Windows 11 goes mainstream... the so called "unsupported" hardware is going to be a moot point... the only real group of people who are truly going to be "affected" by the requirements of Windows 11 (TPM in particular) are custom PC builders/tinkerer's/overclockers etc. but if TPM in particular is going mainstream the motherboard manufacturers are going to start including TPM modules as part of the package. So unless you buy new CUSTOM stuff as soon as it comes out things will be the same but slightly more secure...

    Of course the other option is to move to Linux... so there are options if you are really against Microsoft's path forward.

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