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  1. #31
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Just Curious -- being an Enterprise IT Consultant --- What are you going to tell your clients Who may have perfectly good Hardware and run either W7 or W10 Now, -- What do you think they will say to you if you tell them they have to spend several thousands of $$$ to upgrade their systems (this is beyond 2025 as well) especially if it were a company that had Hundreds of Computers. ?

    Don't think you'd have to be smart to figure out what their response will be
    To be fair, have not encountered this issue... when W10 came out, we were on the front foot with most of our clients with the need to look at moving to Windows 10... but most of them were already ahead of the curve on that. Also, "most" enterprises have a hardware refresh cycle that is between 3-5 years, so for the most part hardware compatibility/currency, is usually not an issue. For most of our enterprise customers, rolling hardware contracts help to keep the cost down...

    I do have one client who is currently running exclusively on Microsoft Surface hardware which is running 6th Gen Intel and they have started upgrading because the suite of applications they use is not running well on their hardware, so they have to upgrade... this goes back to my point that you can't purchase hardware based purely on the OS you're running... what you do with the computer plays just as an important role... if a home user only checks email and brower's the web then maybe something like a chrome book is more suitable rather than a "full blown OS" for lack of a better word.

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  2. #32
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnz View Post
    To be fair, have not encountered this issue... when W10 came out, we were on the front foot with most of our clients with the need to look at moving to Windows 10... but most of them were already ahead of the curve on that. Also, "most" enterprises have a hardware refresh cycle that is between 3-5 years, so for the most part hardware compatibility/currency, is usually not an issue. For most of our enterprise customers, rolling hardware contracts help to keep the cost down...

    I do have one client who is currently running exclusively on Microsoft Surface hardware which is running 6th Gen Intel and they have started upgrading because the suite of applications they use is not running well on their hardware, so they have to upgrade... this goes back to my point that you can't purchase hardware based purely on the OS you're running... what you do with the computer plays just as an important role... if a home user only checks email and brower's the web then maybe something like a chrome book is more suitable rather than a "full blown OS" for lack of a better word.
    Yeah good luck with converting users who get confused when the start menu changes to change to a chrome book. I would disagree, I think people purchase hardware precisely for the OS it comes with. Not everyone is comfortable with change and for those outside of the IT field that discomfort is understandable. Many see computers as advanced pieces of technology and get confused when their desktop icons move around.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnz View Post
    Everyone seems to be complaining about something that is only a problem now... just wait 4 years... and if by then you still haven't bought a new computer which is Windows 11 compatible, then this not "MS just making an OS that is not compatible with old hardware".... but maybe the user deciding to use older hardware.
    It's not really unreasonable for people to use things until they die. If the hardware is still running and the only thing limiting them is a TPM, why should they have to buy an entire new machine? Especially considering how lame the advantages of having one are? The security benefits are negligible at best without full disk encryption which is going to be optional, not compulsory in 11. I've seen people run Windows 10 perfectly fine on old Core 2 Duo machines, and wouldn't be surprised if they continue to work past 2025.

    Edit: my focus here is on home users and consumers, not all of whom can afford to ditch their current machine all in five years. Couldn't really give two stuffs about the enterprise, most lease their equipment and have volume license agreements that covers them for support.

    I still believe this whole thing is MS's cockup. If they were doing this right they would have advised manufacturers years ago that they were planning this and that they'd need to start including TPMs in every system. Five years isn't fair to users, especially when the next version of LTSC will be continued to be supported until 2029.

  3. #33
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Yep, I don't disagree with you on any of that. I just think for the average home user, this TPM thing in particualr is not going to be an issue because they are likely going to purchase OEM laptops and even desktops to a certain degree and TPM will be catered for.

    If you're a custom PC builder then you'd have to put a little more thought into the next "upgrade".

    Bottom line for home users on Windows 11... just wait... there is no rush and if you can squeeze another 2-3 year our of you current hardware, do that and then upgrade to a Windows 11 based system...it's really not worth stressing about whether or not your current hardware can run Windows 11.

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  4. #34
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Wish they had done is taken a more two pronged flexible approach to this. They could have made TPM's compulsory for the Pro/Pro for Workstations/Enterprise versions of 11 and not for Home, so that it could be a longer transition period than the last 4 years of Windows 10's life. That combined with telling manufacturers back in 2019 that this was the direction they were going in would have given ample time for people to transition over.

    As long as NTFS remains the main file system, without compulsory full disk encryption the entire chain of trust is useless. It just seems like too much of a jump to be reasonable (don't mean to beat the drum over and over again but it really pisses me off).

    10 wil be supported until 2029 for the enterprise. Even though it was apparently just a side comment, the belief has been for a long time now that Windows 10 was going to be the last version of Windows and if that was wrong, they didn't do anything to refute it. The least they could do is offer extended support to consumers for the same timeframe.

  5. #35
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Just before I left one of my previous employers 2 years ago they begrudgingly upgraded from XP to windows 7, and allowed a few laptop users to go as far as windows 8 just because they couldn't get suitable laptops with windows 7 support.
    Some big companies really drag out OS upgrades as long as possible and it's common enough that MS offer enterprise support well past the end of life date the rest of us are stuck with. Large companies wont' have a problem with windows 11 support in my opinion, most of them will ignore it's existence for years.
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  6. #36
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Well for those who are game, or Businesses, Windows 11 and existing hardware May be not be relevant -- MS announced at inspire Link >> windows-365 Cloud PC

    Its similar to Azure VM's used them in the past Both Windows and linux, and it was basically the same as using the local PC, speed was not a factor.

    A Person I know very well, their Medical Business uses Azure as a live time backup to their local systems - as he has said their system can go down, within seconds Azure kicks in and they carry on as nothing has happened you cant even tell you're not using local.

  7. #37
    Member mzee's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    I patched the W11 iso, and installed it in the HP Stream which wouldn't have a bar of it before. No problems at all, except I forgot to turn off the Internet & had to do all the Microsoft Login crap. Quite nippy for a N3060 @ 1.6 Ghz CPU. Won't be keeping it as there is only 6 GB free on the emmc drive. Back to MX Linux 19.4

  8. #38
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    Just before I left one of my previous employers 2 years ago they begrudgingly upgraded from XP to windows 7, and allowed a few laptop users to go as far as windows 8 just because they couldn't get suitable laptops with windows 7 support.
    .
    And thats the reality with many businesses in NZ

    I have so many Clients still using Win7 & Server 2008 . They see IT as a cost rather than an asset & wont upgrade untill things fail.
    They talk big regarding IT security but spend small. ( a few exceptions)

    PC'S so slow that its literally costing them money in unproductive staff . They wont replace or fix (often just needing a SSD & more ram)


    With Win11 .
    I think MS made the correct choice with hardware requirements . At least try & make Win11 more secure . Look 5 years into the future, not 5 years into the past
    Otherwise its really just adding lipstick to Win10 .

  9. #39
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    A
    With Win11 .
    I think MS made the correct choice with hardware requirements . At least try & make Win11 more secure . Look 5 years into the future, not 5 years into the past
    Otherwise its really just adding lipstick to Win10 .
    But that's all Win 11 is anyway.

    What the TPM can offer as a full chain of trust is basically destroyed when the disk isn't encrypted by default in the first place, and they have confirmed that it will be off by default.

    Another poorly executed plan by Microsoft... too little notice, not enough flexibility and a poor transition period. Becoming par for the course now.

  10. #40
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: I tried out Windows 11

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post

    I still believe this whole thing is MS's cockup. If they were doing this right they would have advised manufacturers years ago that they were planning this and that they'd need to start including TPMs in every system. Five years isn't fair to users, especially when the next version of LTSC will be continued to be supported until 2029.
    And yet no one complains that Win7 no longer has official support, despite there being support & updates for Win7 for the chosen few .

    All this happens ALL THE TIME with Android . Many Phones loose any support(updates) in 1-3 years , yet no one complains .
    Some of these phones cost more than a PC .

    Most name brand PC's bought in the last 2 years should meet the hardware requirements for Win11 .
    No one is being forced to go to Win11 .

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