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Thread: More Govt Crap

  1. #11
    Apple free in Appleby KarameaDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Heavy vehicles could use air/aluminium cells with an appropriate recycling facility (cough cough Tiwai Point)
    They are primary cells so non-rechargable.
    Energy density compares favourably to fossil fuels.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumin...%93air_battery

    Any thoughts?
    FTW

  2. #12
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300...-work-vehicles

    Fewer than 10 per cent of utes registered as work vehicles

    er...yes. Husbands was for a time, but then wasn't. He still used it for work though. I suspect a fair number pay less road tax than they should too.

    Whatever....we can't change it, they're getting into electric planes too, so says the news article today about that.
    Domestic obviously, international, well, I wonder how many batteries they'd need to make that work?

    Utterly stupid idea, batteries will save the environment to a standard we can live in it...(The planet doesn't need saving), but there you go. Humans are dumb, we make lame gestures.
    Ex-pctek

  3. #13
    Soaring like an Eagle gary67's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Supposedly 10% are registered probably is because only 10% own their own business.

    If you are not self employed you can't register your ute as a work vehicle as such.

    Vans are better for tradies but they are inherently more dangerous in a crash and they get stuck so easily in mud and lets face it this time of year all building sites are muddy.

  4. #14
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by gary67 View Post
    Supposedly 10% are registered probably is because only 10% own their own business.

    If you are not self employed you can't register your ute as a work vehicle as such.

    Vans are better for tradies.
    You can and for a while, he did.
    For depreciation and tax (ongoing).

    He hated vans, couldn't fit as much in for one thing.
    I know other tradies with utes, some flatdeck some covered.
    Ex-pctek

  5. #15
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by KarameaDave View Post
    Heavy vehicles could use air/aluminium cells with an appropriate recycling facility (cough cough Tiwai Point)
    They are primary cells so non-rechargable.
    Energy density compares favourably to fossil fuels.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumin...%93air_battery

    Any thoughts?
    Well for my worth the fact that they are “Primary Cells” disqualifies them from being any use in a EV.

    However, if we’re going to discuss batteries, I’ll suggest a Nickel-Iron.

    Haven’t seen one in 50+ years but they were near indestructible. I remember them being used on forklifts in fruit packing sheds. The cells were actually the counterweight on the forklift. As I recall the reason they were used in Packing Sheds and Cool Stores was that the nasty exhaust gas from ordinary Forklifts ripened the fruit and they didn’t want it ripened until it arrived at the overseas market. Dairy Companies also used them, but I can’t recall why.

    Another peculiarity was that as I recall, they were stored with a bar between the Positive and Negative Poles which was also used for lifting them.

    I think the problem was their weight, all good in a Forklift, but times change, so I wonder if that technology should be revisited?
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  6. #16
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Well for my worth the fact that they are “Primary Cells” disqualifies them from being any use in a EV.

    However, if we’re going to discuss batteries, I’ll suggest a Nickel-Iron.

    Haven’t seen one in 50+ years but they were near indestructible. I remember them being used on forklifts in fruit packing sheds. The cells were actually the counterweight on the forklift. As I recall the reason they were used in Packing Sheds and Cool Stores was that the nasty exhaust gas from ordinary Forklifts ripened the fruit and they didn’t want it ripened until it arrived at the overseas market. Dairy Companies also used them, but I can’t recall why.

    Another peculiarity was that as I recall, they were stored with a bar between the Positive and Negative Poles which was also used for lifting them.

    I think the problem was their weight, all good in a Forklift, but times change, so I wonder if that technology should be revisited?
    a quick google shows other issues like poor charge and discharge currents. poor power retention. also high cost. so battery wise its crap, but its robust.
    we have an older electric forklift but its lead acid.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  7. #17
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    a quick google shows other issues like poor charge and discharge currents. poor power retention. also high cost. so battery wise its crap, but its robust.
    we have an older electric forklift but its lead acid.
    Could you please link your information tweake?

    My recollection was quite the opposite.

    I think I'd better check Google myself to see what I'm missing.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  8. #18
    Apple free in Appleby KarameaDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Well for my worth the fact that they are “Primary Cells” disqualifies them from being any use in a EV.
    I don't agree, these could be designed as a standardized quick change form factor to be used in conjunction with a lithium battery.
    The truck could use the lithium battery for short range trips and as the regenerative braking accumulator, then if further range and/or power are needed
    the air/aluminium cells would come on-line, once depleted they could be rapidly exchanged at fuel stations and the exhausted cells shipped to Tiwai for reprocessing.

    This would not only allow heavy vehicles to be electric and practical, but would allow fuel stations to remain in business as well as provide Tiwai with a new revenue stream, preventing closure of the plant and protecting several hundred rather well paid jobs, and contractors livelihoods.

    Win/Win all around and smiling faces in Southland (a rare sight these days )
    FTW

  9. #19
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    Quote Originally Posted by KarameaDave View Post
    I don't agree, these could be designed as a standardized quick change form factor to be used in conjunction with a lithium battery.
    The truck could use the lithium battery for short range trips and as the regenerative braking accumulator, then if further range and/or power are needed
    the air/aluminium cells would come on-line, once depleted they could be rapidly exchanged at fuel stations and the exhausted cells shipped to Tiwai for reprocessing.

    This would not only allow heavy vehicles to be electric and practical, but would allow fuel stations to remain in business as well as provide Tiwai with a new revenue stream, preventing closure of the plant and protecting several hundred rather well paid jobs, and contractors livelihoods.

    Win/Win all around and smiling faces in Southland (a rare sight these days )

    I remain unrepentant.

    Here’s the simplest explanation I could come up with to explain my scepticism.

    As I recall there are 746 Watts in a Horsepower.

    Watts = Volts X Amps. So, if we connect 622 of these 1.2v batteries in series we would produce only one HP by drawing 1 amp.

    If we parallel 10 Banks of these batteries we have 6220 batteries just to produce 10hp of power.

    You can juggle the figures for different scenarios, but the other thing one must remember is that if one cell goes Open circuit the whole Bank that it’s in is kaput.

    Moving along. The post I made last night about Nickel – Iron batteries has been bothering me because it was all off the top of my head and I wondered why I hadn’t heard of one mentioned in the last 50 odd years.

    Curiosity got the better of me and Google was my friend. THIS I really must keep up.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
    .
    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  10. #20
    Apple free in Appleby KarameaDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Govt Crap

    I understand what you are saying B.M but these days we have boost conversion circuits that are remarkably efficient.
    So running cells as a massive serial array is not really necessary provided the battery produces sufficient current.
    They would be in parallel so a failed cell would not have such a major effect.
    Last edited by KarameaDave; 12-07-2021 at 04:33 PM.
    FTW

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