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  1. #41
    Ancient Member Blue Druid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

    I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

    I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.

  2. #42

    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayess64 View Post
    A detail that has not been mentioned so far: Maori are not, and never were, "cavemen".
    It was a figure of speech. Anybody with any nous would have realised what I meant - uncivilised.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by gary67 View Post
    Nope British sign language, which just like speech has many local interpretations and accents
    Correct. So does NZSL which has regional dialects and signs. Ive used BSL in the UK in 2002, BSL has taken me a long way as well as written and typed English and the then UK Disability Discrimination Act (now called the Equality Act). It enabled a crucial wall to come down enabling me to quickly find employment in London (by using the telephone network through the UK relay service) to make calls in my successful search in a then booming London when the pound was strong. Hows that for being treated equally to others? There was no relay service in NZ till around 2004 when the Helen Clark Labour Govt made it happen.

    Cheers.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Information on the UK’s Equality Act 2010 is at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance.

  5. #45

    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Druid View Post
    I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

    I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

    I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.
    Very well said. I quite agree. I'm certain you are correct. It is only the very few - usually the ones that make the most noise - that are proficient in maori, but the majority are not. And you may think that the white man is responsible for that, but there was a time when the maori elders told their youngsters not to speak maori because if they wanted to get ahead in a European world they would have to speak english.

    And you are right. "The use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness." I think it is like whispering in front of someone - it's discourteous and impolite.

    A few years ago I was a continuity announcer on Access Community Radio (Auckland) now known as Planet FM. It is a radio station where anyone can air a programme in their own languague for a small fee. While one programme was going to air there would often be a group of people in the lobby waiting to go on air and they would be talking among themselves. It was an unwritten rule that if they were in the same room as someone else (for example, myself) who did not speak their languague they were told - to be polite - to speak in english. Most complied, although there was the occasional person whose english was limited or non existent and an exception was made for them and they would usually tell me if that was the case in the way of an apology.

    I am the same as you, Blue Druid, I am NZ European and I am at loss as to why my grandson is taught a language and culture that is not his own. When I was at school in the late 50s - early 60s, english was very important, so much so, that it was a compulsory subject and if you were sitting the top annual exam of the day - School Certificate - you had the choice of subjects that you could study and sit an exam on and english had to be one of those subjects. That's how important the education authorities thought that english was.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Druid View Post
    I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

    I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

    I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.
    I actually know from my 2002 visit to Scotland from London that Gaelic came to Scotland in its early history, maybe around the 4th or 5th century. My surname Kirkland is Scottish. My Victorian Scottish ancestors came on the ship ‘Maori’ in 1852 to Dunedin, Otago and settled there. I was told by Margaret Forrest in Lochlane, a member of the Kirkland family tree about the Gaelic language in Scotland. She, her partner, my cousin and I went to visit a whiskey factory in Crieff which we all enjoyed . I was very surprised to find that Lochlane is just like Otago terrain.

    My own view is that TVNZ is showing bold and great leadership with Te Reo being used in the six pm news. Perhaps Roscoe might not like it but I do. I guess many others agree with Te Reo words being used in these bulletins and we might form a majority successfully pushing for bilingual bulletins and modifying rules about who can communicate and when. I think Te Reo needs to be much more visible on our TVs and NZSL too as NZ has become multicultural these days and NZ has two official languages and English is a de facto official language. I too learnt English in my school days and passed my School Cert exam in it and went as far as studying it at first year university level. Times change and people may need to catch up or risk being left behind.
    Last edited by barryk; 18-04-2021 at 04:51 PM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member fred_fish's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by barryk View Post
    Times change and people may need to catch up or risk being left behind.
    Seems the cavemen prevalent in this thread are happy to stay huddled around their dwindling colonial fire, shaking their fists and mumbling dead cliche's as the world passes them by.
    Lay me down the long white line
    Leave the sirens far behind me
    Paint my name in black and gold
    My heart my flame my heart my road

  8. #48
    Ancient Member Blue Druid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by barryk View Post

    My own view is that TVNZ is showing bold and great leadership with Te Reo being used in the six pm news. Perhaps Roscoe might not like it but I do.
    I can accept that you like it but do you understand it? I have a limited grasp of Te Reo but I seldom understand a word of My Dellow's cultural contribution. The key to communication is that the message being received and understood is the same as the message being transmitted. Anything less is the equivalent of liking a song to which you do not know the words.

    And if we want the news to be truly multicultural, why not read it in Urdu, Chinese, Cambodian, Swahili, Tongan, Samoan and all the plethora of languages that are represented in our 21st century New Zealand. The majority will not understand a word, the advertisers will pull their support and we can all derive our amusement from watching back-to-back episodes of "The Chase."

  9. #49
    Its ok I am from Motueka. prefect's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by fred_fish View Post
    Seems the cavemen prevalent in this thread are happy to stay huddled around their dwindling colonial fire, shaking their fists and mumbling dead cliche's as the world passes them by.
    We can kick the fire back into life.
    Its amazing how Potatoes give us chips,fries and Vodka.

    Get your s*** together every other vegetable.

  10. #50
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te...-off-the-grass

    I wonder if Jenny Nicholls is a member here....

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