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  1. #51

    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    I read that article and, in particular, they mentioned macrons and showed the many words where macrons were used, but what it failed to say is what a macron does to the pronunciation in the word that it is used so macron or not, I'm still none the wiser as to the pronunciation of those words.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  2. #52
    Bleakly Optomistic
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    the Macron or overhead line thingy, basically makes the vowel more heavily pronounced/draws it out.

  3. #53

    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by the_bogan View Post
    the Macron or overhead line thingy, basically makes the vowel more heavily pronounced/draws it out.
    Thank you for that, Bogan. I've never heard anyone explain it before.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  4. #54
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    Very well said. I quite agree. I'm certain you are correct. It is only the very few - usually the ones that make the most noise - that are proficient in maori, but the majority are not. And you may think that the white man is responsible for that, but there was a time when the maori elders told their youngsters not to speak maori because if they wanted to get ahead in a European world they would have to speak english.

    And you are right. "The use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness." I think it is like whispering in front of someone - it's discourteous and impolite.

    A few years ago I was a continuity announcer on Access Community Radio (Auckland) now known as Planet FM. It is a radio station where anyone can air a programme in their own languague for a small fee. While one programme was going to air there would often be a group of people in the lobby waiting to go on air and they would be talking among themselves. It was an unwritten rule that if they were in the same room as someone else (for example, myself) who did not speak their languague they were told - to be polite - to speak in english. Most complied, although there was the occasional person whose english was limited or non existent and an exception was made for them and they would usually tell me if that was the case in the way of an apology.

    I am the same as you, Blue Druid, I am NZ European and I am at loss as to why my grandson is taught a language and culture that is not his own. When I was at school in the late 50s - early 60s, english was very important, so much so, that it was a compulsory subject and if you were sitting the top annual exam of the day - School Certificate - you had the choice of subjects that you could study and sit an exam on and english had to be one of those subjects. That's how important the education authorities thought that english was.
    It wasn't not to speak Maori, most said not to speak Maori in front of pakeha people because they would judge them for it. Which was true then and judging by the tone of your complaint might even be true today, whether you admit it or not. I'm speaking as one who was told the same thing.

    Maori culture is part of New Zealand culture whether you like it or not. Until recently (30-40 years or so) New Zealand Europeans did their best to try and stamp it out and it was only a movement towards a more passionate approach in dealing with cultural issues that saw the government and relevant institutions make more of an effort to try and integrate Maori history, culture and such in to our identity as a country. I'm sorry you don't feel any connection to it, but there is absolutely no harm in learning a language and culture that is considered to being core to New Zealand identity, even if you don't like it.

    Cave man language? He hamupaka o korero, you should be ashamed of yourself. Reading some of the responses in this thread make me even more ashamed to call myself a Kiwi. I'm not sure if you were just being an ass or were deliberately trying to stir the pot with a title like that, but consider the pot stirred. Whatever made you so miserable that you take either offense or can be annoyed just by hearing the language and having others learn about it, I wish you godspeed in dealing with because being such a hateful person isn't good for anyone.

  5. #55
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    It was a figure of speech. Anybody with any nous would have realised what I meant - uncivilised.
    Yes, kind of the equivalent of saying "I don't objectify women, I just don't think they're really people".

  6. #56
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    I read that article and, in particular, they mentioned macrons and showed the many words where macrons were used, but what it failed to say is what a macron does to the pronunciation in the word that it is used so macron or not, I'm still none the wiser as to the pronunciation of those words.
    Thankfully there's this wonderful invention called the internet, where, in the time of writing this message to complain about someone not serving you up every piece of information on a silver platter, you could search and learn it for yourself. But why take any initiative? Being a derogatory fool who complains about nothing seems much more constructive.

  7. #57

    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    Whatever made you so miserable that you take either offense or can be annoyed just by hearing the language and having others learn about it, I wish you godspeed in dealing with because being such a hateful person isn't good for anyone.
    I was not saying that I was miserable and no I did not take offence. What I was saying - if you had read my post - is that I object to TVNZ - Simon Dallow in particular - saying something in maori that few people understand. I said, "English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them."

    I think that, before you comment on a post, you need to read it and absorb it otherwise you will be making a fool of yourself.
    It is better to wear out than to rust out.
    - Richard Chamberlain, Tour of the Hebrides

    Us husbands are a sorry lot.

  8. #58
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post
    I was not saying that I was miserable and no I did not take offence. What I was saying - if you had read my post - is that I object to TVNZ - Simon Dallow in particular - saying something in maori that few people understand. I said, "English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them."

    I think that, before you comment on a post, you need to read it and absorb it otherwise you will be making a fool of yourself.
    You've said a hell of a lot more than that, much of which is antagonizing and disgusting.

    But at the end of it all, you don't need to describe what is some of our mother tongue and everyone's national language, whether you recognize it or speak it or not, as a cave man language, or uncivilized.

    Shame on you. You sound pretty damn miserable to me.
    Last edited by baabits; 29-04-2021 at 05:47 PM.

  9. #59
    Ancient Member Blue Druid's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    I have no problem with Maori retaining and using their culture and language if that is what they want to do.

    What I object to is having it foisted on me as a non-Maori. If people want to communicate in a language that is incomprehensible to the rest of the world, so be it. But I have no aspirations to do so. If I must learn another language, it will be one that has far more global relevance.

    There are two dedicated Maori TV channels which feature everything Maori for the benefit of Maori. Why does it have to be injected into supposedly English language channels when it is only understood by a tiny percentage of the population?

    'And don't get me started on the Maori naming of Government departments in that language which is not understood by the majority of New Zealanders, regardless of race. Now I have no idea which department does what.

  10. #60
    Member Zippity's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have no use for a cave man language

    Blue Druid +1
    A married man should forget his mistakes. There's no use in two people remembering the same thing!

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