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  1. #11
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by barryk View Post
    All four elements working

    There is now excessive power consumption occurring.. Iím guessing itís the hot water cylinder thatís using too much electricity because the pipe coming out of it feels a bit too hot to the touch. Could the problem be caused by a faulty element inside the cylinder or something else?

    No. Faulty elements stop working, not get hotter. The pipe is SUPPOSED to be hot. It's hot water.
    Do NOT turn it now, it leads to Legionnaires....

    Maybe it's just you can now cook.
    Ex-pctek

  2. #12
    Old guy
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by barryk View Post

    There is now excessive power consumption occurring. Donít know why. Iím guessing itís the hot water cylinder thatís using too much electricity because the pipe coming out of it feels a bit too hot to the touch. Electrician looked at and tested the thermostat with a multimeter, replaced the very old power supply cord to it with a new one but the high electricity consumption is still occurring, to my frustration. Could the problem be caused by a faulty element inside the cylinder or something else? Is it possible to find out the cylinderís electricity consumption with something like a multimeter?
    Have a look at the pressure relief drain from the cylinder. Normaly it is a pipe sticking out of the wall outside in most houses. A bit of water drips out to relieve presure when the water in the cylinder heats up after hot water is used. If it is dripping continusly you have a plumbing problem and will use more electricity as it is heating water all the time. If you look at the cylinder you will see a pipe coming from it with a Nefa valve about a metre from the top that pipe should not be too hot to hold onto down by the valve if it is you are loosing hot water and need to get that sorted out.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Yes you can, google it to see precisely how. Short story you turn off the power to the cylinder, remove the front cover at the bottom of the cylinder, look inside and you should see a calibrated wheel. In the older ones you use a screw driver to turn the dial to the temp you need. Be careful as 65C is very hot. If you have kids, I wouldn't do it. Check and see what the dial is set to. Replace the cover and turn the power back on. 55C is the accepted temp.
    Thanks Bryan. Do you happen to have a link to a video that shows how to adjust the thermostat to change the temp to 65C or 55C? Only someone who knows what theyíre doing will get to take the cover off and work with the thermostat. I saw the electrician removing the cover to show the thermostat and he used tools with the thermostat such as a multimeter and screwdriver and a plastic looking thing that looked like very big pliers (but these arenít pliers). The cylinder looks like it is at least 20 years old, the thing he took out had a date in 1982. Electricity consumption looks slightly lower than yesterday but still high. Iím guessing the culprit is the cylinder but it could be an inaccurate power meter or something else in the house thatís wasting electricity?
    Last edited by barryk; 06-05-2021 at 09:37 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    to be honest, if you have to ask these questions , you shouldnt be attempting this yourself.

    just twiddling a temp knob , how are you going to check the ACTUAL water temp afterwards ?
    do you have 240v insulation rated screwdrivers


    If you think you are using too much power
    1) start taking dayly readings off the meter to look at your actual usuage
    look at some old power bills to compare usage
    ring the power company , see if there was price increase, ask them to look at past few months usage to see if usage has really gone up that much
    Was the last bill an actual meter reading , or their approximation .
    2) are you just being overcharged by your provider
    3) is this just normal additional winter increase in usage
    4) get the electrician in if you think your usage is excessive due to some fault . (He may not be able to do much though)
    5) do you have a hot water system leak somewhere , get a plumber to check the hot water system .
    *** 4 & 5 will cost $$ and may not achieve anything

    Electricity isnt cheap btw

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    to be honest, if you have to ask these questions , you shouldnt be attempting this yourself.

    just twiddling a temp knob , how are you going to check the ACTUAL water temp afterwards ?
    do you have 240v insulation rated screwdrivers


    If you think you are using too much power
    1) start taking daily readings off the meter to look at your actual usuage
    look at some old power bills to compare usage
    ring the power company , see if there was price increase, ask them to look at past few months usage to see if usage has really gone up that much
    Was the last bill an actual meter reading , or their approximation .
    2) are you just being overcharged by your provider
    3) is this just normal additional winter increase in usage
    4) get the electrician in if you think your usage is excessive due to some fault . (He may not be able to do much though)
    5) do you have a hot water system leak somewhere , get a plumber to check the hot water system .
    *** 4 & 5 will cost $$ and may not achieve anything

    Electricity isnt cheap btw
    Thanks 1101 for your post. For electrical safety reasons, only someone qualified, such as a certified electrician, will get to work with the thermostats.

    Agree electricity isn't cheap nowadays at 33c per kWh compared to 10c/kWh back in 1999. Blame the expensive power grid :-* Average incomes have gone up since then however.

    To answer the above questions, yes I've been taking daily readings off the actual meter and compared them to electricity usage data from past years and they show daily electricity usage has jumped from 10kWh to 18-23kWh since late March. In short, a doubling of electricity consumption. I don't think it is higher charges from my provider nor normal winter increase in usage as it isn't even wintertime yet.

    Today I compared hourly usage with the hot water cylinder turned off against when it's turned on. When it's off, hourly usage is 200W or 0.2kWh. When it's on, it's 900W or 0.9kWh. In past years, the normal hourly usage was 0.291kWh (7kWh divided by 24 hrs). So it's my strong guess that the hot water cylinder or the hot water system is the cause of the high electricity usage problem.

    The electrician who came two days ago showed me something dated 1982 he took from the cylinder. I now think it is the element used to heat the water inside the cylinder. He didn't ask me if I wanted the 39 year old part replaced. The tool I said in an earlier post looked like a big pliers is a clampometer (https://www.jaycar.co.nz/tools-test-...ularity-desc&q). I think it is a multimeter that clamps onto something so it can be easily read by an electrician working with an electronic thing like a thermostats.

    I've seen two videos, one of a thermostats being checked and the other talking about how to replace an element inside a hot water cylinder. Now I know the difference between a thermostats and an element. The former is used to regulate the temperature which the element heats the water to inside the cylinder.

    Do you think the element should be replaced by a new, modern one? Is there a way to measure the electricity usage in wattage of the hot water cylinder? I'm thinking I'll call the electrical firm again to ask some questions about what the electrician should have done to solve the high electricity usage problem.
    Last edited by barryk; 07-05-2021 at 03:46 PM.

  6. #16
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    If the hot water tank is leaking or over-flowing you will get big bills, measure the temperature of the water coming out of your hot tap in, say, the kitchen after it has been running for a while, should be around 70 to 80 degC.

    The earthquakes here in Chch caused lots of tanks to crack and leak years later. The adding of chlorine didn't help causing more leaks. This happened to a friend of mine. The bill went up, months later she realized the tank was leaking heaps of water from the bottom, when the fuse blew due to leaking water on the connections after the lock-down.

    Make sure water not leaking out the overflow pipe if you have one on the roof. Thermostat may have gone faulty and over-heating the water.

    Remember if you decide to drain your hot water tank for whatever reason open the hot water taps in your house or you will collapse the inner copper lining in the tank due to lack of atmospheric pressure in the tank as the water drains out if you don't open the taps. Sometimes you can be lucky and the overflow pipe will prevent this mishap but best to open hot taps after turning off cold water into tank.
    Last edited by zqwerty; 07-05-2021 at 04:15 PM.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #17
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by barryk View Post
    For electrical safety reasons, only someone qualified, such as a certified electrician, will get to work with the thermostats.

    The electrician who came two days ago showed me something dated 1982 he took from the cylinder. I now think it is the element used to heat the water inside the cylinder. He didn't ask me if I wanted the 39 year old part replaced.

    Do you think the element should be replaced by a new, modern one? Is there a way to measure the electricity usage in wattage of the hot water cylinder?
    Actually plumbers change them, they have limited electrical.
    If the element is dated 1982, probably your cylinder is that old.
    You don't change elements unless they die. They work or they don't. There are no "modern" ones, they're the same thing as they were.



    Yes, get one of those gadgets that measure usage and plug it in, then plug the cylinder into it. Instead of directly.

    or....have you not got separate unit charges for hot water on your bill? Controlled is usually what it is called. Thats the hot water part of the bill.
    Ex-pctek

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    Actually plumbers change them, they have limited electrical.
    If the element is dated 1982, probably your cylinder is that old.
    You don't change elements unless they die. They work or they don't. There are no "modern" ones, they're the same thing as they were.

    Yes, get one of those gadgets that measure usage and plug it in, then plug the cylinder into it. Instead of directly.

    or....have you not got separate unit charges for hot water on your bill? Controlled is usually what it is called. Thats the hot water part of the bill.
    Thanks piroska for your post.

    Re hot water part of bill question, thatís an easy question to answer. No, my power bill doesnít show the hot water part. I know a well functioning hot water system is a whole system of working parts whose output is the correct hot water that goes to hot water taps and bathrooms.

    Forgive the pun but yesterday I got a big electric power bill shock (for the previous 30 day period) :-0 . Of the financial sort, not the electrical sort.

    I have a device that plugs into electrical sockets and measures things like wattage and voltage. Used that to narrow down the list of heavy electricity using devices to the stove and hot water cylinder. But thereís no socket besides the cylinder to plug the measuring device into for finding out the cylinderís actual electricity consumption :-( . I found out from watching videos that the elements used in hot water cylinders are 3000-4500 watts. That tells me a lot of electricity is needed to heat up water to the set temperature in these cylinders. These elements are like those used in stoves and kettles.

    What Iím doing now is seeking advice from places such as hardware shops and hot water cylinder specialists on how to fix the high electricity consumption problem which Iím guessing is caused by a faulty thermostat.

  9. #19
    VoidMaster
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    This is why I said measure the hot water temperature, if the thermostat is faulty the water will be too hot or, too cold which wouldn't result in high priced bills, so too hot is what you're looking for.
    It's not the least charm of a theory that it is refutable. The hundred-times-refuted theory of "free will" owes its persistence to this charm alone; some one is always appearing who feels himself strong enough to refute it - Friedrich Nietzsche

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Two of the four elements donít work properly on my stove

    Quote Originally Posted by zqwerty View Post
    This is why I said measure the hot water temperature, if the thermostat is faulty the water will be too hot or, too cold which wouldn't result in high priced bills, so too hot is what you're looking for.
    There may be a free and easy option to solve the problem which is just turning the knob to lower the set temperature for the water inside the cylinder and still get the correct hot water coming out. However....

    I was advised today that getting the water temperature too low in the hot water cylinder would risk bacterial growth.

    So Iím thinking that Iíll get an accurate thermometer to measure the temperature of hot water running out of a hot water tap. The thermometer might show a temperature high enough to prevent bacterial growth.

    I donít know the exact temperatures of the hot water coming out of the cylinder through the pipe and out of the hot water taps but the pipe feels a bit too hot compared with past years and the hot tap water feels a bit too hot to me as well.

    Not so free option is to get in the hot water cylinder specialists or plumber.

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