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  1. #11
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW_Po9XNSxk

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  2. #12
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_24 View Post
    Electric cars are great but they just move the pollution from the exhaust pipe to the power stations and lithium mines.

    Perhaps something like hydrogen fuel cell vehicles + power generation by fusion reactor would actually reduce pollution, but we'll probably all blow ourselves up before we get there...
    Unless a new way to produce, store, and transport hydrogen is invented it uses much more electricity than a battery electric vehicle does. You would end up having to generate a lot more electricity and lose any imagined environmental advantage.
    At the moment hydrogen is mainly being pursued because it has the same convenience as petrol, that's its only advantage.

    It's true electric cars move the pollution but even so the net amount of pollution is less than current fossil fuel cars produce even when coal is used to generate the power. Add to that that any improvement made to power generation automatically applies to the entire fleet of vehicles and doesn't need to wait for older technology to naturally fade away like improvements in combustion engine efficiency does. Lithium can be recycled from old batteries, if we do that it greatly reduces the impact but Ideally we need battery technology that uses safer materials. It's being worked on on several fronts and looks likely to become a non issue eventually. Toyota for example claim their solid state battery tech will be used in a prototype this year and put into mass production in the next 5 or so years.

    Electric cars are far from perfect but for the moment they are the best option available unless we all forgo our personal transport or buy bicycles. There are many hurdles to be overcome along the way. I myself am optimistic we will get there.
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  3. #13
    Computer "Specialist" Agent_24's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    That's why I mentioned fusion power. If they ever get that working...

  4. #14
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Hydrogen is actually derived from fossil fuels .

    Burning hydrogen is not actually all clean & green, it creates nitrogen byproducts that are quite nasty .

  5. #15
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Hydrogen is actually derived from fossil fuels .

    Burning hydrogen is not actually all clean & green, it creates nitrogen byproducts that are quite nasty .
    ?? Please explain the second part. I understand the thing that Hydrogen is produced by the extraction method but they are working on finding clean methods which will make it the best form to use.

    Ken
    Last edited by kenj; 12-02-2021 at 08:53 AM.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenj View Post
    ?? Please explain the second part. I understand the thing that Hydrogen is produced by the extraction method but they are working on finding clean methods which will make it the best form to use.

    Ken
    my bush science answer , so not 100%

    If you use hydrogen as a fuel : its burning hydrogen in the engine that gives the power .
    Because our air is mainly nitrogen , the high temp combustion also creates NOx gases

    Long term effects of those NOx gasses : who knows .
    I suspect so few vehicles will be H powered it may not matter .
    less polluting than petrol cars, but not emissions free .

    H fuel cells are something different again though.

  7. #17
    Retired old codger kenj's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    I always thought the byproduct of a Hydrogen powered car was just water?

    Ken
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  8. #18
    Computer "Specialist" Agent_24's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenj View Post
    I always thought the byproduct of a Hydrogen powered car was just water?

    Ken
    It is, in fuel-cells.
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  9. #19
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Let me suggest to you:

    Modern cars with Catalytic Converters are actually cleaner (in the big picture) and much cheaper than any EVís.
    Global Warming is Mann made.
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  10. #20
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Long Will EV charging Remain At A Low Price?

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Let me suggest to you:

    Modern cars with Catalytic Converters are actually cleaner (in the big picture) and much cheaper than any EV’s.
    Cheaper yes, cleaner sometimes. The price will come down eventually, the cleaner part will continue to improve with better battery technology.
    Some manufacturers make batteries that can last the life of the car, this tech already exists. Others currently become uneconomical to repair once the battery degrades below a useful level which is the only reason ICE vehicles might be better in some cases.

    Once there are enough cars around to support a healthy second hand parts market and battery tech gets cheaper it's really not going to be close, that's my suggestion.
    Most of the claims about how bad for the environment EVs are compared to ICE can be traced back to the oil companies and their cronies.
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