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  1. #121
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    So by reducing the number of these guns those who already have them illegally will somehow have more and be more dangerous than they are now? how does that work pray tell?
    There may be some of what you say that happens, but I think you are overestimating it.

    Sometimes all you can do is cut the supply of something off at the source and then let time and attrition do what it can about the rest. I also said this once before, the less of them in circulation the less chance the wrong person ends up with one.
    It's not a 100% fix, some will end up where they shouldn't be. But to my mind it's still an improvement.
    first of all they don't have them illegal as such. they had them perfectly legally and without fault.

    the side effect of a buy back can be that the govt takes the guns of legal law abiding people who have done nothing wrong and give them to crims to do what they like with.
    as strange as that sounds thats the unintended consequence if they do not get it right.

    its also not about cutting off a supply. the govt will be making the supply, a huge one, which will drive down black market prices so even low level crims can afford to buy them

    you need to remember that black market guns are very expensive and good ones are typically not used for crimes. they are the toys for the guys who can afford them. while the rubbish sawn off shotgun is used for crimes and is disposable. but if prices are driven down because there is a large scale supply, then you will see them used in crimes.

    how many guns will be driven into black market will depend on how well a buy back is done.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  2. #122
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    one thing thats been apparent in the media is the grandstanding.
    everyone is being seen to be supporting the proposed ban simply to appease the ignorant masses.
    when things cool down, get back to normal and people realize that the danger factor has never changed and they do not have to do anything in their lives to counter this "threat", it will all be forgotten.
    then you will see all the varies parties change their tune.

    this is why certain people want new laws rushed through without inquiry or debate and get their personal agendas fulfilled before people come to their senses.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  3. #123
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    first of all they don't have them illegal as such. they had them perfectly legally and without fault.
    I was talking about those who didn't already have them legally, and you are making a lot of assumptions about what will happen based on what exactly? Seems like guesswork.

    The black market prices tend to go up, not down. At least that's what happened in Australia. And they have gone 14 years since without another mass shooting so that's hopeful.
    Can you give me an example of guns being banned and a buyback implemented causing the problems you suggest as a precedent for your concerns?

    Anyway, I've made my view clear and so have you. I don't really have any more to add.
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  4. #124
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Using some of the logic applied above
    Its too late, it will drive the market underground, crims will still get guns , it may not have made any difference

    Using that logic, lets make EVERY type of gun 100% legal. Everything. .5" sniper rifles, sawn off shotguns, machine guns. Because the same arguments apply.

    The reason that guy didnt use a machine guns was ........ thats right, because they were made illegal long ago , so they were hard to get.
    The new law change may not make any difference for another 5-10 years, but in 5-10 years there will be a difference .

    Most kiwi's dont give a rats arse if guns nuts cant get guns that are good for bugger all except shooting people up close .

  5. #125
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Using some of the logic applied above
    Its too late, it will drive the market underground, crims will still get guns , it may not have made any difference

    Using that logic, lets make EVERY type of gun 100% legal. Everything. .5" sniper rifles, sawn off shotguns, machine guns. Because the same arguments apply.

    The reason that guy didnt use a machine guns was ........ thats right, because they were made illegal long ago , so they were hard to get.
    The new law change may not make any difference for another 5-10 years, but in 5-10 years there will be a difference .

    Most kiwi's dont give a rats arse if guns nuts cant get guns that are good for bugger all except shooting people up close .
    The same arguments don't apply because there isn't so many of them in the country.

    We can't say that that's the reason because there hasn't been a full and thorough investigation and inquiry yet and it won't be complete for a long time.

    Most Kiwi's don't give a rats ass about anything until it's too late, and consequently we always end up tripping over rushed legislation that doesn't fix issues and makes things worse in a lot of cases.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Contraband guns will still come ashore, like the $50,000,000 drug hall that got bogged down on the 90 mile beach some time ago.

    NZ has the title of being the 8th longest coastline in the world, so go figure.

  7. #127
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    not sure where you got that, but there is no new guns laws yet.
    there is the "order" but its not passed into law.
    you can't say they support the law when they havn't even decided on the law yet.
    The only thing outstanding is the legalese and the rubber stamp.

    How much will you bet me that doesn’t happen?
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  8. #128
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    The only thing outstanding is the legalese and the rubber stamp.

    How much will you bet me that doesn’t happen?
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  9. #129
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Using that logic, lets make EVERY type of gun 100% legal. Everything. .5" sniper rifles <snip>
    Just as an fyi - it is currently legal to own a Barrett .50 cal rifle in NZ.
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    Thats a good idea,and everybody should be whipped if they disagree.
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  10. #130
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by baabits View Post
    two scoops of chips, crumbed fish and a hot dog.
    Purchased from our PM's previous employer's fish and chip shop in Morrinsville of course, but not personally wrapped by herself.
    Last edited by WalOne; 26-03-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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