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  1. #1
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Changes to the Firearms Act

    The last thread I started on this - To arm our Police. Or not. - came to an inescapable demise after the horrific events of last Friday in Christchurch. It seemed pointless to argue the case either for or against as opinion was seemingly for.

    Our government has (in my opinion) given in too readily to the anti gun lobby with a knee jerk reaction, ill considered, and without appropriate consultation.

    To kick this new thread off, here is the text of today's press release from Commissioner Mike Bush:

    [emphasis mine]

    "Police announce process to hand over reclassified MSSAs"
    Please attribute to Police Commissioner Mike Bush


    Last Friday, our country was shocked by a brutal and senseless attack. We recognise our world has changed.

    Police focus is on ensuring the immediate safety and peace of mind of our communities.

    Today, the Government has made immediate changes to classifications in the Arms Act which will mean some firearms are going to be reclassified as military style semi-automatic firearms (MSSAs).

    At 3pm today, changes have been by an Order in Council under section 74A(c) of the Arms Act came into force adding two more groups of semi-automatics under the MSSA definition:

    • a semi-automatic firearm that is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine (other than one designed to hold 0.22-inch or less rimfire cartridges) that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges; and
    • a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun and is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges.

    As a result of these changes many people who, up until now have owned these firearms legally, will no longer be able to possess them on their current licence conditions.

    This means for many people, you will now be in unlawful possession of your firearm. Given this is an immediate change, there is an amnesty to allow the notification and hand in their firearms to Police.

    To organise the hand in of your firearm, you will need to complete a form on the Police website. Those who are unable to do so can call Police on 0800 311 311. When the form is submitted Police will be notified you are in possession of a firearm that needs to be handed in.

    We will contact you to organise a suitable time and place for you to hand over your firearm.

    This may mean you bring it to Police at an allocated time, or a Police employee comes to you directly to collect the firearm.

    I can’t emphasise enough that in the current environment, it is important you do not take your now-unlawful firearm anywhere without notifying Police.

    It is absolutely vital that we manage the safe and organised transport of all firearms into Police custody.

    There is clear information on our website around what firearms are affected by the change and what to do if your firearm if affected.

    The Government has signalled there will be further changes made over the coming weeks to ban all military style semi-automatics and assault rifles permanently.

    While legislation is being finalised, the Government in the interim has acted to restrict the potential stock-piling of these guns, parts and high-capacity magazines, prevent additional purchases and encourage people to notify Police about their intention to hand in their firearms.

    We will continue to update the public and especially the firearms community as required.
    ENDS
    So I invite anyone with an interest in this subject to join the debate and have their say. Please keep your responses focused on our country, our laws, our customs, and our history.

    The floor's open ...

    To kick off, here's Mike Loder, an Auckland based campaigner for reform in the sentencing of firearm crime. He has researched internal gun control systems for 25 years.

    ]he prime minister has boasted that she will have new gun laws to be forced through parliament within ten days of the Christchurch horror. The Pike River report took two years. However, Jacinda apparently has all the answers right now. Before any formal enquiry even has asked the questions to ascertain what caused this terrible event.

    For many ‘Getting tough on guns’ is an easy option. They often have little affinity with the quarter of a million gun license holders; this is largely due to urbanisation. In their minds, new law changes may work and if they don’t, that’s no great loss.
    Only weeks ago, Quebec’s administration panicked at the realisation that less than 20 per cent of long guns had been registered ahead of the deadline. So they loosened the rules. Then the deadline passed and 75% of Quebec’s long guns still aren’t registered.

    This is the cost of treating people with contempt. Of doing an end run around democracy. This government has developed new restrictions in secret meetings. With unknown advisors. With unknown agendas. Then the rushed changes are to be shoved down the throats of New Zealand.
    Out of the frying pan and into the fire ...

    Last edited by WalOne; 21-03-2019 at 04:57 PM.
    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

    Dr Lester Levy


    I've studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

    Leonard Cohen

  2. #2
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Good Job
    Most kiwis dont care if guns owners get clamped down on.

    The type of person who feels the need to own these sort of weapons, just for the sake of having them, isnt the sort of person I want to have them.
    Its the need to protect the many, even if that upsets the very few .

    We cant just sit back and do nothing . Even if we we do has zero immediate effect . Long term it will make a difference .

    There are plenty of dangerous things we arnt allowed to have , why should guns have a special privilege
    We'll be getting the same type of arguments we hear about Pit Bull ownership , same mentality.

    You said to keep it to NZ only, so why the quotes regarding other countries ?
    Last edited by 1101; 21-03-2019 at 05:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    1st
    The floor's open ...
    Cover the open floor -- OSH will have you for unsafe floors someone may fall through and get hurt

    On the Semi-Automatic ban --- Looks like all the people who rushed out earlier in the week are going to be spewing, they are now in possession of illegal firearms.

    Whether its a knee jerk reaction - Depends on how you look at other countries as well, Aussie have far stricter laws than NZ, basically the Laws in NZ were open.

    The changes:

    • a semi-automatic firearm that is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine (other than one designed to hold 0.22-inch or less rimfire cartridges) that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges; and

    • a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun and is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges.

    As a result of these changes many people who, up until now have owned these firearms legally, will no longer be able to possess them on their current licence conditions.
    https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firearms-and-safety/changes-firearms

    While this wont stop the unregistered or illegal ownership, at least it will make it harder to obtain.
    Last edited by wainuitech; 21-03-2019 at 05:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    More from Mike Loder:

    he Police union told shooters to stay out of the debate. Then Jacinda doubled down on that. Our subject-matter experts would only ‘dilute’ her intentions.

    New York State had to be sued before they gave up their numbers. Only 23,847 people had registered their so-called “assault weapons” since the 2013 law took effect. So an estimated 976,153 New Yorkers had not.
    This means that nearly one million New York State residents became criminals overnight. They were otherwise law-abiding citizens but are now a new category of people. Ones who live outside of laws and control systems.

    Likewise, the Connecticut legislature hit the same problem. It was reported:
    “They estimated that there were 372,000 rifles in the state of the sort that might be classified as “assault weapons,” and two million plus high-capacity magazines. Many more have been sold in the gun-buying boom since then.
    But by the close of registration at the end of 2013, state officials received around 50,000 applications for “assault weapon” registrations and 38,000 applications for magazines”.

    So again, Connecticut created tens of thousands of ‘newly minted criminals’. With less than 15% of rifles registered. A few months ago in New Jersey, more than a million gun owners also refused to turn in banned magazines.
    California has just managed to record less than 5 percent of the guns required to be registered under their latest gun ban. Using data on gun sales from state records, the state only got about 3.6 percent of the total number of firearms they wanted.

    In Boulder, Colorado, the city council banned the sale and possession of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. They decided to go easy and let people who already had them – keep them. They just had to register them. Going by national averages, the citizens of Boulder had approximately 150,000 firearms in need of “certification” by the deadline. When that date past, the Police Department had certified 85 of them.

    This all ignored the lesson of thirty years before. California in 1990 had an estimated 300,000 guns classified as ‘assault weapons’. Just 7,000 were registered.

    We see the same pattern. In country after country. England. Germany. First there are the press conferences with ministers posing with guns and shaking hands with police. Then the numbers are announced. Then comes the offers of amnesty. Then comes the realisation of the damage done.
    New Zealand can expect similar levels of public disobedience. At best a partial compliance. That means guns going underground – where criminals can eventually get access to them. Then terrorists can as well.
    This is not an ‘If’ – It’s a ‘When’.

    This all assumes that the government merely tampers awkwardly with the categories of our arms. If they attempt an outright ban – it will be chaos.
    The law demands that shooters will require hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation. Then that gets messy. If you buy the gun back at $9000 – then what about it’s $3000 optics? Now useless. Its $3000 reloading package. Now unneeded. All the other investments that our sportspeople have made.


    Shooters recognize that changes will likely need to happen. We support that. But we want them to address the real issues, not invented ones. We want the final result to leave New Zealand safer. Not in even more danger.
    This dreadful attack by a shooter is linked to another terrorist strike. That of a man killing 87 innocents with a truck. After the world was set on fire by other madmen hijacking planes with box cutters. After the federal building was destroyed by a homemade bomb. Before French cartoonists were murdered by smuggled machineguns and on and on it goes.
    You cannot legislate away terrorists. You can however make it easier for them to acquire deadly arms by passing bad law.
    (This article originally appeared in today's Whale Oil)
    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

    Dr Lester Levy


    I've studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

    Leonard Cohen

  5. #5
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    I'd also like to see air rifles requiring a gun licence.
    Why is it ok for my neighbours kid to have one & shoot at my house ? that happened .
    Not needed or wanted in urban areas . I used to have one as a kid, that doesnt make it right. Kids + slug guns : stupidity will reign

    again you said keep it to NZ, yet more quotes re other countries.

    I can see we wont get a sensible debate here. Im out .
    Last edited by 1101; 21-03-2019 at 05:09 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Had a gun license for over 46 years and the grueling I got every time the renewal came up was hectic to say the least, even wife was negative in the family part of the exercise, "girl friend" and branch manager were very favorable as additional witnesses.

    Went through CMT and 3 years after, using most of the fire arms at the time, elder brother and myself were classed as "marksman", I was asked if we would like to remain in the army/police force. I declined as I had a very good accounting position in the private sector.

    Yet someone from o/seas can get access to extreme firepower after only being here for 2 years, wtf is going on with our screening process.

    lurking.

  7. #7
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    You said to keep it to NZ only, so why the quotes regarding other countries ?
    Fair comment, 1101. I was really aiming at trying to reduce tedious page upon page quotes on USA law, and even more tedious amendments to their constitution. No need to stay out, but let's keep it as kiwi as we can, notwithstanding the additional quote from Loder.
    Last edited by WalOne; 21-03-2019 at 05:13 PM.
    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

    Dr Lester Levy


    I've studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

    Leonard Cohen

  8. #8
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Just had a quick look on the Police site, the first part regarding the hand in on the forms will bugger some people

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just seen a comment on Twitter regarding the change:
    Can we return #DonaldTrump to the Dollar Store and trade him for New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Arden?
    Last edited by wainuitech; 21-03-2019 at 05:35 PM.

  9. #9
    Short Member pcuser42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    About time

  10. #10
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Just had a quick look on the Police site, the first part regarding the hand in on the forms will bugger some people
    Ths had me howling

    As much as they have good intentions it probably won't have any effect if some arse decides to do this again in the future. If they're determined to get a weapon like this they will find a way.

    Nevertheless we can pat ourselves on the back for having made it more difficult for people to legally obtain them, don't really have an opinion on this to be honest as it probably won't make a real difference.
    Last edited by baabits; 21-03-2019 at 05:53 PM. Reason: spelling

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