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  1. #111
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    So by reducing the number of these guns those who already have them illegally will somehow have more and be more dangerous than they are now? how does that work pray tell?
    There may be some of what you say that happens, but I think you are overestimating it.

    Sometimes all you can do is cut the supply of something off at the source and then let time and attrition do what it can about the rest. I also said this once before, the less of them in circulation the less chance the wrong person ends up with one.
    It's not a 100% fix, some will end up where they shouldn't be. But to my mind it's still an improvement.
    But you're not cutting off all the supply; you're cutting off part of it, to the people who almost always never misuse them, and then you're driving the other part of it towards the black market.

    One side shrinks and the other inflates, guess where the weapons would have been safer originally? It's not like the guns are going to magically disappear over time.

  2. #112
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Yes you are cutting it off, unless you are saying the criminals are importing or manufacturing them most illegal guns did get here legally. And don't forget this horrible event happened with a legally purchased weapon. It might have happened anyway but we can't know that for sure either way.
    And no it's not magic, a gun confiscated here, another damaged there, and slowly the numbers reduce. Same as anything once you stop bringing more in the numbers start to dwindle, things don't just stay in circulation indefinitely.
    It will take a long time, but if you can't get these weapons here eventually they become rare.

    Of course the crims will just use other weapons, but hopefully less effective ones.
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  3. #113
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    Yes you are cutting it off, unless you are saying the criminals are importing or manufacturing them most illegal guns did get here legally. And don't forget this horrible event happened with a legally purchased weapon. It might have happened anyway but we can't know that for sure either way.
    And no it's not magic, a gun confiscated here, another damaged there, and slowly the numbers reduce. Same as anything once you stop bringing more in the numbers start to dwindle, things don't just stay in circulation indefinitely.
    It will take a long time, but if you can't get these weapons here eventually they become rare.

    Of course the crims will just use other weapons, but hopefully less effective ones.
    It doesn't mean these guns aren't going to be supplied, it just means they won't be legally supplied. In the so called mean time those who don't hand their guns in will be able to sell them on the black market which inflates it. Out of 1.25 million registered guns and god knows how many unregistered guns, that's going to be a whole lot.

    Eventually they'll find ways of getting around the law and the flow will start again, if not just illegally importing them just like drugs and other illegal items make it across the border every day. Short of being backed up by a giant army and invading people's privacy and rights constantly, prohibition doesn't work, it just causes the trade to go underground.

    Failing that, they'll just start making them themselves. It's not that difficult.

    But at least we're doing something! Yep, something dumb, impatient and ineffective. The government knee jerking to this means the criminals will as well.

  4. #114
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    It's a lot harder to smuggle guns into the country than drugs.
    And do you really think the criminals will start making their own MSSAs?
    If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it.

    I posted a link to an article on another thread, where a security expert said that it's most likely the nutter chose New Zealand for the attack due to our gun laws.
    If we'd had stronger laws in place then he probably wouldn't have done it here.

  5. #115
    Senior Member baabits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by CYaBro View Post
    It's a lot harder to smuggle guns into the country than drugs.
    And do you really think the criminals will start making their own MSSAs?
    If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it.
    They will find a way to smuggle them in. They always do. It's just that this time there's more motivation to do so because they're illegal and the value is higher.
    No one ever had to do it because they could go down and buy them. When they buy them, they're registered and need to be licensed.
    Quote Originally Posted by CYaBro View Post
    I posted a link to an article on another thread, where a security expert said that it's most likely the nutter chose New Zealand for the attack due to our gun laws.
    If we'd had stronger laws in place then he probably wouldn't have done it here.
    I seriously doubt he chose NZ because of our gun laws. He chose NZ because he doesn't need a visa to come here and gets full rights like an NZ citizen. Coming here, he barely goes through any checks, doesn't need a visa to work, to stay an indefinite time or to get a gun license.

    Regulating those things would be more effective than banning weapons, no matter how good it feels to say yes we banned them.

  6. #116
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    ......................... they really focused on domestic abuse and removing guns from people when they might do stupid things.
    something i think the usa could learn from.

    Why don't youse guys just pass a law making it illegal to be bad?
    ........huh? That's too simple huh?

    .... and since that would thereby cover all the possibilities of getting shot, or.....
    driven over,
    knifed
    pick-pocketed;
    over taxed (the govt doesn't like competition)
    hit by a drunk driver,
    robbed at knifepoint,
    thrown out of a bar,
    people won't speed any more,
    they won't take your parking place,
    they won't litter,
    they won't beat their wives,
    they will all go to school in an orderly manner and respect their teachers,
    they won't riot,
    throw pr build bombs,
    drive semi-trucks through crowded streets and alleys,
    make bombs to strap around little kids and women,
    won't sell little girls for sex,
    kill the whales (or ducks-platypus-spotted owls-egrets-koi-whatever endangered species hits the 6 o'Clock News this week);
    won't use drugs,
    won't sell narcotics,
    won't traffic in narcotics,
    won't cheat on their taxes and/or their wives;
    won't squeeze the grapes and tomatoes... or the bread;
    won't spit on the sidewalk or into the wind;
    cheat at cards, dice or Monopoly;
    won't steal pencils and pens from work;
    won't defend themselves even if it means the lives of their children,
    wife
    or dog
    or even themselves.

    Gack! What a perfect place you'll have there - a real tourist's mecca!

    Ahhhh.... but there are some new odious laws here that we call: Red Flag Laws. You'll notice YOUR RED FLAG passing by on your left side as you slide down the slippery slope on which you now are damned-well gonna ride since you bought the ticket already and got in the gondola.

    ____________________________________________

    Back to the Red Flag Laws subject.......These allow a snarky ex-spouse to call the cops and say that their ex threatened her (true or not) with a gun (true or not) and he has guns (true or not) in his house" (true or not) ...........and the cops visit one night and issue a 'no-knock' warrant which means they smash down the front door at 2AM and arrest the poor guy.

    Remember that this is on a 'say-so' word from a bitter ex-wife who just wants to cause trouble ..... and so they knocked this guy's apartment apart.

    If he has a weapon (true or not) or even a replica,(true or not) they can STILL haul him off to jail without a legal search warrant nor a legal warrant to arrest him and hold him in jail for 'way more than the old law said is limited to 72 hours - and it's all perfectly legal.

    Days - weeks - months - years - all without a stinking warrant!

    Search warrants in the US always require a judge to sign off on it. That's the way it WAS until this feel-good stuff that makes no-one responsible and everyone is guilty. The old assumption of not guilty until proven otherwise has been put on permanent hold.

    No judges are required for these Red Flag Warrants. I bet that everyone can see the implications in that --- right?
    This law passed rather majestically in New Jersey just a month or so ago and so far a couple of cops died serving the no-knock when the guy shot from reflex and killed two before they could arrest him. TWO COPS DIED for an illegal law.

    That's totally against the 'Illegal Search And Seizure' laws in the US Constitution. Next they'll want private homes to house soldiers and cops like in the days of the King of England as he did to the colonists.

    If youse guys like the police visiting you without warrant nor logical reason some Early:AM and searching your place while they put you in cuffs and haul you off, just remember that they are doing it here first..... well, New Jersey really.

    This was what they did to the Jews in Russia, the Jews in Germany and Italians in Mussolini's Italy before Martial Law was declared.

    But if Martial Law is OK with youse guys - go for it.

    (The) West and the East are often compared and contrasted by many, and are often polar opposites in terms of culture, in spite of sharing the same technologies. The West values individualism, while the East values collectivism. The West values personal liberty, while the East more strongly emphasizes the rule of authority. Therefore, it is no secret why so many Asian countries have a long and recent history of tyrannical, despotic, and oppressive regimes, which of COURSE do not allow civilian firearm ownership. Not only that, Asian parents are infamous for being strict and pushy, in contrast to the more lenient Western parents.

    Taiwan, Korea (both North and South), Japan, China, and Singapore are perhaps the only nations on Earth which outright (or nearly outright) prohibit firearms ownership. All these nations have had a long and recent history (or even current status, as in the case of China, North Korea, and Singapore) of oppressive regimes.

    Few other countries in the world ban guns. Even the UK and Australia permit firearms ownership, and there is still a rather large selection of firearms available to civilians in those countries. Australian civilians can own any rifle that is not fully automatic or semi-automatic, any shotgun that is not full-auto, semi-auto, or pump action, and handguns are subject to barrel length and caliber restrictions. The UK permits ownership of any rim-fire rifle (except full auto), any center-fire rifle (minus full auto, pump, and semi-auto), and shotguns are subject to magazine capacity. Handguns are banned.

    Although Venezuela recently banned guns (completely), the violent gun crime problems have not alleviated, and criminals have no qualm about showing their guns in public (due to lack of sufficient law enforcement).
    .... and another screw up:
    There have been established "Gun Free Zones" that prohibit carrying, even legally, any firearm into an area such as a zone around- and including- a school, a public building or places like banks or theaters, etc.

    What is the outcome? There are more crimes of opportunity in these areas by roving gangs and thieves since they know that a legally bound person will accede to the law and NOT carry into that area. That means the people INSIDE these zones are without any protection. Crime spikes that way.

    I have only the one Glock,
    ...........but I have more than 5000 rounds of 200 gr 1150 fps FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) ammo;
    ...........2000+ rounds of 180 gr 1550+ fps FMJ +P ammo;
    ...........300 rds Underwood 140gr Extreme Penetrator Super Vel 2200+ fps 100% pure copper ammo: this is my anti-bear round
    ...........I also have about 300 160gr 2200+ fps HP (Hollow Point) +P rds

    ..........and as my Glock cannot shoot soft lead bullets, I have just recently purchased a drum of 5000 rds of 240 gr 1300 fps Hardcast Lead for wadcutter duty. ...................they were very cheap at $95.00 including shipping.

    I also have some kinda-sharp screwdrivers in both Phillips and the slotted style.
    Some are long handled and others vary down to pocket-sized.

    In the spirit of full disclosure, I might have a pocket knife around here somewhere. I don't like to carry them as they slap on my thigh when they are in a pocket.

    Ohh! Ohh!
    - can't forget that I have some very sharp fish hooks too. And a few hammers. And a soldering iron with a solder sucker - that I may have to register any day now.

    All I want is to be unafraid of bears. That's all.

    This will be my last post here.


    Warum werden wir so früh alt und klug so spät?

  7. #117
    Apple free in Appleby KarameaDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Upset much?
    FTW

  8. #118
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    I think we can safely say it is all over bar the shouting here in NZ.

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    When all the major political party’s agree, along with other non affiliated other organisations, then Automatic & Semi-automatic weapons have had their day in NZ.

    I just hope they also reintroduce a gun register, like we used to have, so a gun can be traced to its owner.
    Global Warming is Mann made.
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  9. #119
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    I think we can safely say it is all over bar the shouting here in NZ.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When all the major political party’s agree, along with other non affiliated other organisations, then Automatic & Semi-automatic weapons have had their day in NZ.

    I just hope they also reintroduce a gun register, like we used to have, so a gun can be traced to its owner.
    not sure where you got that, but there is no new guns laws yet.
    there is the "order" but its not passed into law.
    you can't say they support the law when they havn't even decided on the law yet.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  10. #120
    Soaring like a chicken prefect's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changes to the Firearms Act

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    I think we can safely say it is all over bar the shouting here in NZ.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Guns3.png 
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    When all the major political party’s agree, along with other non affiliated other organisations, then Automatic & Semi-automatic weapons have had their day in NZ.

    I just hope they also reintroduce a gun register, like we used to have, so a gun can be traced to its owner.
    Well Autos were never legal here only countries they are is Yemen and Somalia
    Still allowed large calibre semi autos with non detachable magazines max 5 rounds and they have not banned speed clips. So really all that is happened is the magazine capacity (was 7) and type of magazine has changed. They havent banned 10 round mags for bolt action rifles or their speed clips.
    Its amazing how Potatoes give us chips,fries and Vodka.

    Get your s*** together every other vegetable.

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