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  1. #31
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    OK... I went and pulled down the Montana State Firearms Law concerning barrel total, legal lengths. There's one phrase ... two phrases actually ... that qualifies what both you and I said as being accurate.....


    (1) A person commits the offense of possession of a sawed-off firearm if the person knowingly possesses a rifle or shotgun that when originally manufactured had a barrel length of:

    (a) 16 inches or more and an overall length of 26 inches or more in the case of a rifle;  or

    (b) 18 inches or more and an overall length of 26 inches or more in the case of a shotgun;  and

    (c) the firearm has been modified in a manner so that the barrel length, overall length, or both, are less than specified in subsection (1)(a) or (1)(b).

    (2) The barrel length is the distance from the muzzle to the rear-most point of the chamber.



    ..... remember that there's a distinction between rifled and smooth bore for sake of clarity here.......

  2. #32
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurferJoe46 View Post
    OK... I went and pulled down the Montana State Firearms Law concerning barrel total, legal lengths. There's one phrase ... two phrases actually ... that qualifies what both you and I said as being accurate.....


    (1) A person commits the offense of possession of a sawed-off firearm if the person knowingly possesses a rifle or shotgun that when originally manufactured had a barrel length of:

    (a) 16 inches or more and an overall length of 26 inches or more in the case of a rifle;  or

    (b) 18 inches or more and an overall length of 26 inches or more in the case of a shotgun;  and

    (c) the firearm has been modified in a manner so that the barrel length, overall length, or both, are less than specified in subsection (1)(a) or (1)(b).

    (2) The barrel length is the distance from the muzzle to the rear-most point of the chamber.



    ..... remember that there's a distinction between rifled and smooth bore for sake of clarity here.......
    ok, so you guys do actually have a minimum gun length as well as barrel length. you would think barrel length would be redundant ??
    ours is 30" overall length with the stock collapsed or folded.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  3. #33
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    It says nothing about modifications after sale though.



    (1) A person commits the offense of possession of a sawed-off firearm if the person knowingly possesses a rifle or shotgun that when ORIGINALLY manufactured had a barrel length of:

  4. #34
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Actually Joe modifications seem to be exactly what it's talking about. The first 3 lines set the original conditions and then (c) references the firearm having been shortened from those conditions.
    Well that's how I read it anyway.
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  5. #35
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Yeah -- I was on my tablet when I made that last entry and I couldn't get back to the post to EDIT it in time.

    What I said was incorrect. Shocking as that may be ---> SurferJoe made a mistake for the first time this year.



    I knew about cutting a shotgun to less than 18" barrel length as a federal bust, but I never thought that cutting a rifle down was a problem.

    A rifle is nothing more than a pistol with a really long barrel and some extra hand-hold wood.

    There are legal 'kits' to alter a pistol into a rifle, so I do not understand any prohibition on it going the other way. Meh!


    I figger that as far South as I have gone so far, I may now get a break in bad fortune
    until the rest of the world catches up with me.

  6. #36
    pcsourcepoint
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurferJoe46 View Post

    There are legal 'kits' to alter a pistol into a rifle, so I do not understand any prohibition on it going the other way. Meh!
    What about the addition of a silencer to a pistol? Some seem to be long, from what I seen in movies. Are they included legally as a kit to convert to a rifle?
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  7. #37
    tweakedgeek tweak'e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by kahawai chaser View Post
    What about the addition of a silencer to a pistol? Some seem to be long, from what I seen in movies. Are they included legally as a kit to convert to a rifle?
    no. any attachment to make it longer to make it into a rifle has to be fastened on ie welded or glued on. same as here.
    not uncommon for them to weld a tube on the end to lengthen the barrel so its a legal rifle.
    btw suppessors in usa are the opposite to here. in usa they are restricted items, have to pay a tax on. here theres no law on them at all.

    the usa also has another class called "short barrelled rifles" which i know nothing on. i'm guess their definition of rifle is not just length so it would have to have other features to class it as a rifle.
    i'm not up on the details but they seam to have a thing at the mo called an arm brace which turns a short barrel rifle into a pistol. ie its not a stock its an arm brace. you can have a pistol but not a short rifle sounds kinda werid.

    usa gun laws are stupid.
    Tweak it till it breaks

  8. #38
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna Read: "Crazy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by tweak'e View Post
    no. any attachment to make it longer to make it into a rifle has to be fastened on ie welded or glued on. same as here.
    not uncommon for them to weld a tube on the end to lengthen the barrel so its a legal rifle.
    btw suppessors in usa are the opposite to here. in usa they are restricted items, have to pay a tax on. here theres no law on them at all.

    the usa also has another class called "short barrelled rifles" which i know nothing on. i'm guess their definition of rifle is not just length so it would have to have other features to class it as a rifle.
    i'm not up on the details but they seam to have a thing at the mo called an arm brace which turns a short barrel rifle into a pistol. ie its not a stock its an arm brace. you can have a pistol but not a short rifle sounds kinda werid.

    usa gun laws are stupid.
    Again - youse guys gotta know that there are really NO such laws in the US Constitution, in that 'the rights of the people to be armed shall not be impeded' or words just like that.

    FWIW: I had US Civics in high school, in 1961, so I MIGHT be a little rusty on the correct syntax.

    'Silencers' or 'suppressors' are not universally accepted or denied to the firearm owner PER THE US CONSTITUTION, but there are states that seek to deny by death of a thousand cuts, and they chew on rules that do not exist and the legislate with impunity it seems.

    That said: Montana allows suppressors and also machine guns, the latter under certain conditions.

    As to suppressors, you can have a barrel with threads on it to accept a suppressor - that's not illegal and I don't think it's illegal to have a threaded barrel in any state. I might be wrong in an instance or two, but I think I'm on pretty safe ground in stating that so broadly.

    The idea of a suppressor is to keep a bear (for instance) hearing the report and running to get to the gut pile first ahead of the other bears in the area. If the report is quiet enough, the bears won't hear it and a feeding frenzy of a dead animal and a live human won't commence.

    Many - not all, certainly - firearms might have threaded barrels to accept flash suppressors or sound suppressors or a combination of both - it varies state-to-state, although it shouldn't.

    My Glock is not threaded, but there are threaded barrels that are available for it, as well as longer and shorter barrels to suit special needs or circumstances.

    There is also a rifle stock unit to make my pistol into a rifle, with or without a longer barrel. If they can sell it, it must be legal - although there's that 'state-by-state' fiasco of which to contend.








    .
    Last edited by SurferJoe46; 16-02-2019 at 06:58 AM.


    I figger that as far South as I have gone so far, I may now get a break in bad fortune
    until the rest of the world catches up with me.

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