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  1. #21

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnz View Post
    Where are you located Kiotimak?

    I have an Asus P8Z77VL-X mobo, Gen3 i7 (3770K) CPU, 16GB of DDR3 RAM and it has a Seidon 120 sealed CPU water-cooler.

    It's yours gratis if you're interested.

    PM me.

    Cheers,
    cheifnz
    hi and cheers for the offer. I live in Dunedin NZ Mainlander..... I will PM you asap.
    cheers

  2. #22

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    OK went back and re read it, seems like you might have known that.

    Anyway, it does not seem to me like you would be very likely to have 2 faulty motherboards unless something else was damaging them, like maybe the PSU.
    Also the fact that swapping a power connector brought it back to life temporarily when it should have done nothing is suspicious.

    One thing that occurs to me though, when you are doing things like cleaning out the dust from the PSU you are disconnecting the mains power I would assume, it may be that the cold start from a total power down might be what is giving you short bursts of life, and something is possibly failing after running for a time.

    Piroska generally seems to know more than I do so I hesitate to suggest it is actually the PSU, but it is a common factor here. Whatever the issue is, it has to be something that you are using in every case, like the RAM or CPU or PSU etc.
    Swapping out the motherboard and getting the same issue is a pretty good pointer that it's probably not that. (I say things like should and probably a lot, there's no way to safely diagnose things remotely really).

    I would suggest maybe once you've tried swapping out whatever parts you have it might be time to take the parts in to someone to look at and test for you, otherwise you run the risk of buying replacements one at a time trying to find the cuplrit and wasting money on things that aren't faulty.

    Also, from what I've seen the 2400G is an ok gaming choice even without a graphics card, seems to perform about the level of a GT 1030 which will get you older games at 1080P no problem and the latest AAA titles at maybe 720P or 1080 at very low settings.
    That's not as bad as it sounds, there are a lot of great games that are a year or 2 old that will play well. Having said all that if you are buying a graphics card then it's not the best choice, the 2600 is probably the best all round CPU for the price and only costs a few dollars more at the cost of needing a graphics card.
    dugimodo.hi...yep is real strange the 2 different mobo same problem using the same PSU and CPU, and as you say the 4 pin swapping resurrecting them when life on screen died. I think its a PSU problem that worsened over the 3-4 week period because my having to do the swapping of pins and mobo's went from once a week to twice all the way down to twice/thrice a day and then it become hourly or less in the last 2 days.. I have a 350W PSU here I can connect to the older GA MA74GM PS3 board and put the AMD Quad core into that and then put the AMD 3.2GHz Dual core CPU that came with the GA 78LMT-S2P board back in place, try the Cooler,aster with that rig and use the 350W PSU on the Quad Core rig. And see what happens. The Dual core 3.2GHz CPU will not run in the older GA MA74GM S2 board but the Quad will run in both boards. Probably because the FA BIOS in the older MA74 board is older than the BIOS in the 78LMT board (assumptions there)
    Yep, the 2600X is the better option technically than is the 2400G and only costs $100 more but I would have to run on the 'onboard' graphics ( by which I mean the mobo's VGA outlet socket ) until I can get a decent GPU.
    Decisions be made in the New years Day....I am thinking PSU is first on the list, then, new AM4 rig CPU and RAM at same time. But first I do the PSU and Mobo/CPU checking tomorrow
    Cheers
    Last edited by kiotimak; 30-12-2018 at 11:43 PM.

  3. #23
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    There is no 'onboard' graphics, any ports on the motherboard are to allow access to the GPU features of the 2200G/2400G etc and will not work with a 2600.

    I meant the 2600, not the 2600X. There is much less difference in price between that and the 2400G, maybe $15 and it's not that far behind the 2600X
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  4. #24

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Quote Originally Posted by dugimodo View Post
    OK went back and re read it, seems like you might have known that.

    Anyway, it does not seem to me like you would be very likely to have 2 faulty motherboards unless something else was damaging them, like maybe the PSU.
    Also the fact that swapping a power connector brought it back to life temporarily when it should have done nothing is suspicious.

    One thing that occurs to me though, when you are doing things like cleaning out the dust from the PSU you are disconnecting the mains power I would assume, it may be that the cold start from a total power down might be what is giving you short bursts of life, and something is possibly failing after running for a time.

    Piroska generally seems to know more than I do so I hesitate to suggest it is actually the PSU, but it is a common factor here. Whatever the issue is, it has to be something that you are using in every case, like the RAM or CPU or PSU etc.
    Swapping out the motherboard and getting the same issue is a pretty good pointer that it's probably not that. (I say things like should and probably a lot, there's no way to safely diagnose things remotely really).

    I would suggest maybe once you've tried swapping out whatever parts you have it might be time to take the parts in to someone to look at and test for you, otherwise you run the risk of buying replacements one at a time trying to find the cuplrit and wasting money on things that aren't faulty.

    Also, from what I've seen the 2400G is an ok gaming choice even without a graphics card, seems to perform about the level of a GT 1030 which will get you older games at 1080P no problem and the latest AAA titles at maybe 720P or 1080 at very low settings.
    That's not as bad as it sounds, there are a lot of great games that are a year or 2 old that will play well. Having said all that if you are buying a graphics card then it's not the best choice, the 2600 is probably the best all round CPU for the price and only costs a few dollars more at the cost of needing a graphics card.
    dugimodo.hi...yep is real strange the 2 mobo same problem using the sale PSU and as you say the 4 pin swapping resurrecting the them when life on screen died. I think its a PSU problem that worsened over the 3-4 week period because my having to do the swapping of pins and mobo's went from once a week to twice all the way down to twice/thrice a day and then it become hourly or less in the last 2 days.. I have a 350W PSU here I can connect to the older GA MA74GM PS3 board and put the AMD Quad core into that and then put the AMD 3.2GHz Dual core CPU that came with the GA 78LMT-S2P board back in place, try the Cooler,aster with that rig and use the 350W PSU on the Quad Core rig. And see what happens. The Dual core 3.2GHz CPU will not run in the older GA MA74GM S2 board but the Quad will run in both boards. Probably because the FA BIOS in the older MA74 board is older than the BIOS in the 78LMT board (assumptions there)
    Yep, the 2600X is the better option technically than is the 2400G and only costs $100 more but I would have to run on the 'onboard' graphics ( by which I mean the mobo's VGA outlet socket ) until I can get a decent GPU.
    Decisions be made in the New years Day....I am thinking PSU is first on the list, then, new AM4 rig CPU and RAM at same time. But first I do the PSU and Mobo/CPU checking tomorrow
    Cheers

  5. #25

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    Try changing the power Supply, its not uncommon for a fault in he PSU to cause all sorts of problems, had many a PC do stupid things even after booting into windows, change the PSU and problem disappears.

    Have to totally agree with dugimodo's post:

    Also seen people blow perfectly good boards by plugging in a faulty PSU.
    wainuitech...hi
    yeah what dugimodo said that you quoted is exactly my thoughts. The only 2 constants in the HW were the PSU and the CPU.
    I have a DELL 350W L350P-00 psu from a Dell computer I have here that I can use. It doesn't have the Wattage of the CoolerMaster but it will serve to see if I can get unbroken life from the mobo's and CPU. I did try a 200W a couple week ago and that booted the GA 78LMT into POST but didn't open into W10. I thought it didn't have enough power to open into Windows and that was in the early days of the loss of life to Monitor... before I started wondering about the Mobo/PSU/CPU failure possibilities.
    What I have been doing the past couple weeks before I had complete loss of image to monitor was doing the swapping I mentioned but now I am going to set up the two mobo's with their own PSU and will put the AMD Quad core CPU back into the GA MA74GM-S2 Mobo with its 4GB DDR2 800 RAM and HDD that has W7 Pro installed and use the DELL 350W PSU to drive that rig.............. I have an AMD 3.2GHz Dual Core CPU that came with the GA 78LMT-S2P mobo and I will replace that into the board with its 8GB DDR3 RAM and W10 Pro x64 v1809 OS and use the CoolerMaster PSU to drive that rig and see what results I get.
    I can connect the DELL 350W PSU to the board that is powered by the CoolerMaster if it doesn't boot into open Desktop and see what happens when I do that.
    Process of elimination. I will be buying a new PSU next week anyway because I am going to need one no matter what for the new DDR4/A4 rig I intend to build. I have had the CoolerMaster 550WPSU/GA MA74GM-S2 mobo/ 4GB Adata DDR2 800 and the AMD 2.8GHz CPU for 8-9 years and the PSU has had a long life of 24/7 day- years.
    I cannot use the AMD 3.2 Dual Core CPU in the GA MA74 mobo it will not run (BIOS is FA and I think the Newer GA 78LMT mobo has a newer BIOS than the MA74 Mobo)

    "Also seen people blow perfectly good boards by plugging in a faulty PSU.".............yeah that was a possibility I considered and that is why I will get a new PSU to use with the New A4 Socket Mobo I have.

    Tomorrow I will do all the connecting of parts and fire them up to see what transpires. A rig that runs without dropping out like I have been getting up to Christmas Eve would be great and give pointers to where the problem/s are.

    Thanks

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Dell-.../dp/B00657I1H6
    Last edited by kiotimak; 31-12-2018 at 01:22 AM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Just for anyone reading who may be building a first Gaming PC or be interested in the AMD Ryzen 5 2400G APU

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/04/a...graphics-card/

    Now its brekkie time and then start the piecing together of PC HW for two 'test' rigs.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Hi and I think I have a result but not fully solved. I think I have removed the CoolerMaster PSU from the equation because I connected it up to this Compaq Presaio 06 and it booted up into Windows7, has been running for 45 minutes now so I intend to leave it in situ for the day.

    Here is what I did to test the 2 Mobo and the CPU/s.
    I knocked up 2 Rigs as follows:
    Rig 1
    Gigabyte GA 78LMT-S2P with AMD Athlon II ADX2600CK23GM 3.2GHz CPU,...8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 2666 DDR3 RAM.... CoolerMaster RS-550-PCAR-E3 PSU (550W)

    Rig 2
    Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2 with AMD Athlon II x4 630 2.8GHz CPU,....4GB Adata DDR2 800 RAM.... DELL 350P-00 PSU (350W)

    Monitor:HP v216 LED ( connected to each rig when tested)

    Result Rig 1: No Video out to monitor from D-Sub and EVGA GT710 GPU card (when connected to test). Tried changing the 4 pin to mobo connector from PSU and still nothing.
    Fans spin, No LED on Kboard, No Optic light on Mouse, CPU Heatsink cold, RAM cold, Other Heatsinks cold, remove CPU Heatsink and CPU cold.
    Power and reset buttons on front of Tower do not shut down or restart Computer. Had to cold kill from PSU off/on switch.
    Decided to try the Rig 2 PSU and got same result as above. Decided to try the Rig 2 CPU with Both PSU and got the same result. That is doing the 4 pin connector swap for each change of HW. (Lotta cold killing going on)
    Not: I tried the Quad core from Rig 2 in the Rig 1 setup because the Dual core AMD Athlon II ADX2600CK23GM 3.2GHz CPU came with the GA 78LMT mobo when I bought it and had never tried it having chosen to put my Quad core into it. So, it could be a dead fish. And it will not run the Quad core probably because Quad core BIOS is older than the BIOS in the GA 78LMT mobo.

    Result Rig 2: same as Rig 1 result except that the CPU heatsink was slightly warm after 5 min run, the RAM and other Heatsinks and 4 other Black plastic covered components with gold 'R60' stamped on them near the PSU were warm. Shut down (Cold kill again), Removed CPU Heatsink and CPU was slightly warm.
    I tried the CoolerMaster PSU, swapping the 4 pin connectors as said before and still no go to Windows , not even to POST.

    After all that I decided to try the CoolerMaster PSU in this Presario 06 I am using and hope to 'H" that it don't screw the mobo and/or CPU in it. I have another 4 of these oldies with Intel P4's in them and an old AMD 1.6GHz Cpu in one but its just a pain having to get one and having to install a OS and updates/drivers/internet etc etc etc

    So there it is. The info and facts. As said I leaving the CoolerMaster running in situ and to test the Quad AMD CPU I am going to have to get another AM2+/AM3 socket mobo. Will have to be a search of Trade Me or suchlike for something at a reasonable price. I did buy the Gigabyte GA 78LMT-S2P with AMD Athlon II ADX2600CK23GM 3.2GHz CPU from TradeMe for about $40.00 about a year ago. Reason I bought it was the Ga-MA74 mobo threw a wobbly and wouldn't run any PCIe2x16 GPU. I submitted a thread on that in my old PF1 account
    Just to mention and this is off topic but shows how erratic the GA-MA74 Mobo had become, it wouldn't run the EVGA GT719 GPU card I had 8-10 month ago so I bought the GA 78LMT and it worked fine in there.
    Then a few week ago when I had no output to monitor at one time I thought to try the EVGA card and it worked in the mobo that was refusing to run any PCIe2x16 card 8 months before. Absurd! SMH

    I now am left to find if its the Mobo's failed or the Quad CPU and for that I need an AM2+/AM3 mobo. Thus far the CoolerMaster is ticking over for 90 mins, sweet as. Touch wood

    Thanks to all for you advice and comments. Well appreciated and helped tremendously.

    Kiotimak
    Last edited by kiotimak; 31-12-2018 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Spelling corrections

  8. #28

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Correction:
    Note: I tried the Quad core from Rig 2 in the Rig 1 setup because the Dual core AMD Athlon II ADX2600CK23GM 3.2GHz CPU came with the GA 78LMT mobo when I bought it and had never tried it having chosen to put my Quad core into it. So, it could be a dead fish. And the GA-MA74 Mobo will not run the Dual core AMD Athlon II ADX2600CK23GM 3.2GHz, probably because the GA MA74-S2 Quad core BIOS is older than the BIOS in the GA 78LMT mobo.
    Last edited by kiotimak; 31-12-2018 at 01:39 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Hi and a Happy New Year to all

    The PSU is still running sweet as, its done 45 hours continuous supply to the Compaq Presario 06. I am aware that the Compaq HW wouldn't be needing as much Wattage and Current as the other 2 rigs so the final test for the CoolerMaster PSU comes when I get the other rigs up and running again. I am of the opinion that it is the AMD Athlon II x4 630 2,8GHz CPU that is the problem, so to test that theory at a cheap price, I have just purchased 2 AMD Athlon II X2 240 2.8 GHz Socket AM2+/AM3 CPU's for $5.00 apiece and $3.50 shipping from a seller in Trade Me. CPU's taken from non OC'd Office machines and I think they will do the task required nicely. I will post back when I have the new HW and report the results.

    Cheers Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #30

    Default Re: Dead computer...PSU or Mobo???

    Ok and hi. I have it solved: throw in the towel. Want to know why then read on:
    I received the 2 Athlon x2 240 CPU yesterday. Connected one to the Gigabyte 78LMT mobo..... using the 650W Coolermaster PSU, no go. Tried other CPU, same. Went to town but Thermal paste
    Got home and tried again after applying the paste, this time I used the 350W Dell PSu. Action...fired up onscreen...then died.
    After trying other 240 CPU and same results in both mobo I head beep tone...3 long 1 short...RAM I figured.
    Outed both 4GB Sticks and tried one at a time... one is stuffed, it doesn't work in either RAM Slot but the other is fine in either slot.
    One stuffed RAM
    Booted into W10 Pro x64 v1809 and am again confronted with the same 'No internet network hardware' That happened on Both the 78LMT and GM74 Mobos. the GM74 mobo is breadboarded. Get the same Need Driver stuff when used onboard ( the Ethernet port on the mobo) and the NIC Card.
    Eventually got that sorted after 2 Resets and a System restore.
    Then 2 hours later the monitor goes to sleep. No 1 beep code on restart...zilch onscreen...
    change HDD's to other HDD with Win 10 x64 Pro v1809 and same thing. When I do get it to open its the same No Networking connection...change Modems do all sorts and spend 2 hours trying to get an Internet connection having to change it from Public Network to Private Network 3 times before it actually connected...for 5 mins and the its monitor go to sleep, no HDD activity led, zero. Try to change HDD's again, remove reseat RAM the works...and that is with trying that on BOTH mobo's.
    same damn thing/errors etc on the pair of them.
    I am in town using Library computer to write this as the presario giving me a speed download of 114kbps is a joke...watch Ronnie Sullivan Snooker games and I the picture 'freezes after 5 secs play, I can hear the click of the balls and cue shots and when I get video onscreen again well knowck me down with a feather!!! there are 2 reds no longer on the table so at least 4 shots have been played.
    A joke that is a real PITA
    So, what do I do? Buy a replacement AM2+/AM3 Mobo, try that with a new instal pf W10 and go the ;ong path or just keep the money and buy the AMD 2400G and kick that system to life. Sounds good to me...but there's a person been emailing me and he says the Mobo D Sub is analog and so it will not send signal from the 2400G to the VGA port because the AMD's iGPU is Digital and not analogue so I will still need a discrete GPU...... yeah, well I can use the Gigabyte AB350M D3H Mobo I have DVI-D or HDMI ports to connect to monitor (Tele...my monitor doesn't have those ports, VGA only... but I do have adapters or could buy a cable....any way and not only but also...the wonderful EVGA GT 210 1GB DDR5 GPU card I have is PCIe2 and it works perfectly in the 78LMT mobo which utilises a PCIe3 slot. The EVGA card is short not full sized pin array for the PCIe Slots....so maybe that just bring life to screen.
    Outcome: 1 RAM is dead, AMD Athlon II x4 630 2.8 Ghz CPU is dead...and maybe W10 is faulty on both HDD...shrug time.....
    I honestly do not know why I am getting all that Monitor closing, No restart, no beep codes, no anything. The entire mishmash seems to be so erratic and I cannot pinpoint where the problem/s are. As said way earlier...it is absurd...two mobos, now 2 different PSU and CPU's and still it goes on...only thing I can think now is the W10 x64 v1809 I am using and which is the only constant used in both set ups is corrupted or something.
    Long hard road to figure so I just dump it all. I get the AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and go on from there.
    Thanks to all for your time effort.

    garry McVay
    Last edited by kiotimak; 11-01-2019 at 12:45 PM.

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