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  1. #1
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Shocking really, mechanics.

    Went out and noticed the timing, which has been out for ages, was noticeably worse. So out, it was annoying me heaps.

    So decided to stop and get it done immediately.
    So went to a sort of recommended by someone, hadn't been there before.

    I say, can you adjust the timing?
    He said, er...the timing belt?
    I say, no adjust the timing, it's out..
    He says er, um, duh,

    I say if you have no idea what I'm talking about, there's no way I'd let you anywhere near my car.

    I stop all along Railsaid ave, another 3 car repair places, all of them do much the same thing, looking at me like I'm speaking Klingon or something.

    I decide I'll go to sons work and ask his mate the home mechanic guy who does know what he's doing.

    Pass one more and decide to stop there, and he'll be the last.
    Indian guy.

    I say can you adjust the timing and he says, sure, what car?
    Oh I'll have a look.
    Drives it in, has a start and look, gets his timing light and twiddles.
    tests it, and says thats as good as I can get it.

    I say how much?
    He dithers a bit and asks $15?
    I say, great.

    It's perfect. 100%.

    So much better now.

    But really?? What a worry that 4 mechanics have no idea what adjust the timing means.

    I said it to the last guy and he laughed and said yeah, then they open a workshop.
    Yes. Shocking really.
    Ex-pctek

  2. #2
    In a 1920s time warp Terry Porritt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by piroska View Post
    Went out and noticed the timing, which has been out for ages, was noticeably worse. So out, it was annoying me heaps.

    So decided to stop and get it done immediately.
    So went to a sort of recommended by someone, hadn't been there before.

    I say, can you adjust the timing?
    He said, er...the timing belt?
    I say, no adjust the timing, it's out..
    He says er, um, duh,

    I say if you have no idea what I'm talking about, there's no way I'd let you anywhere near my car.

    I stop all along Railsaid ave, another 3 car repair places, all of them do much the same thing, looking at me like I'm speaking Klingon or something.

    I decide I'll go to sons work and ask his mate the home mechanic guy who does know what he's doing.

    Pass one more and decide to stop there, and he'll be the last.
    Indian guy.

    I say can you adjust the timing and he says, sure, what car?
    Oh I'll have a look.
    Drives it in, has a start and look, gets his timing light and twiddles.
    tests it, and says thats as good as I can get it.

    I say how much?
    He dithers a bit and asks $15?
    I say, great.

    It's perfect. 100%.

    So much better now.

    But really?? What a worry that 4 mechanics have no idea what adjust the timing means.

    I said it to the last guy and he laughed and said yeah, then they open a workshop.
    Yes. Shocking really.
    You have to hand it to the Indians, they are/were brought up keeping the old cars going, "Morris Oxfords", and they make great Royal Enfields
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  3. #3
    Soaring like a chicken prefect's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Well the car must be pretty old now from early nineties the electronic ignition sensors and ECU advances and retards the timing. So to get the correct timing on an old distributor car you would have to get a degree figure BTDC from the manual but the octane of the fuel is quite important and should be adjusted for.
    If the distributor has contact points they need to be set with a cam dwell meter or gap at push. If its a manual you can fine tune the timing by labouring it up a hill and adjusting so it just starts to pink under heavy load. My E93A had a cool system you pulled out no 1 plug and turned it over on the crank handle till you felt compression on your thumb then you took off this pin and pushed it into the timing cover as the pin went into a hole on the cam gear that was your BTDC setting at the position the points should just be opening you could use a lamp or just rotate the distributor till you saw or heard a little spark across the points. The most important thing was to remember to screw the pin back onto the timing cover!. The biggest problem with using a strobe is that the correct idle is set otherwise the timing will be out.
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  4. #4
    Crossmember feersumendjinn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Possibly because most mechanics (youngsters) have not worked on vehicles before the year 2000 (18 years ago)
    Most vehicles do not have early type ignition systems since then (points, cap, rotor, adjustable distributor, single coil, ignition timing marks), this is is all obsolete.
    If you want somebody with experience of this, ask a mechanic over 40 years old, or an indian
    Last edited by feersumendjinn; 06-03-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by prefect View Post
    electronic ignition sensors and ECU advances and retards the timing. .
    1)All were indian, including the didn't know what I meant ones
    2)It was changed ages ago by someone without a timing light, no not husband.
    Since then it was out....yes I know about auto retard and advance, even our old Cambridge had that, of sorts.


    As an example, define "old": Nissan Quest 1993-2000

    While periodic adjustment is not necessary, ignition timing may need to be adjusted when the distributor has been removed for repairs, such as cylinder head removal, or when all other causes of an engine performance problem have been eliminated and the symptoms suggest an ignition timing problem.

    Have distributor, therefore timing can be out. OK?

    And it was out.

    As in the rattly noise when you accelerate, especially up hill.

    Now, it's back to how it was, perfect.

    My point was how do you get to be a mechanic and not know what adjust timing even means, never mind modern cars or not....geez.

    Btw my ancient car is a 1996 Corolla.
    Last edited by piroska; 06-03-2018 at 05:53 PM.
    Ex-pctek

  6. #6
    Smiling Down On Youse SurferJoe46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Don't know about NZ autos - some of those names leave me gazing into space, OK -> a Corolla makes sense though, so there's that......................

    But - in the US - almost all cars had (by 1995) phased-out any ability to 'adjust the timing' as it is preset and not adjustable --- not in the classical sense anyway.

    IF - and that's the operative here in a vague Y/M/M identification you've presented - there might be a possible way to change the point of firing the spark by adjusting the distributor (if it even has one, that is) - then even the rudimentary computers in those early models will just - electronically - re-adjust the timing to suit the operating parameters in the ECM to compensate for any diddling of the timing that one may attempt on that vehicle.

    In other words - the computer will ignore any attempts to make it run at a different timing mark that it is designed to run.

    You may have been asking for something that is is/not 1. logical 2. do-able 3. or is an unnecessary expense for all the reasons I've already mentioned.

    The final Indian chap - seeing that you were adamant on having your 'timing adjusted' - just saw a way to earn some money from a person who knew what they wanted - but didn't understand the ramifications of the modern Otto-cycle, computer controlled internal combustion engine.

    I had a 1995 Chevy G-20 van conversion with captain's seats and a custom interior -and ME - being a mechanic all my life - found that there was a way to adjust the timing (mechanics like to squeeze power or performance out of even computer controlled, anti-emission engines too) and there was NO WAY ON THIS SIDE OF THE THEOLOGICAL ESTABLISHMENT FOR ETERNAL PUNISHMENT - to alter or change the timing on that distributor.

    Oh ---> I could twist it to any direction - and in any almost operational zone that the engine would actually run in that is - the computer just recalculated what it knew to be wrong -> to a correct operational parameter and merrily thumbed it's nose at me.

    Now - my 1989 Isuzu Amigo, 2.6L ITEC FI engine CAN have the timing dinked with - but it makes no difference either in that the below-dumb-and-dumber ECM always comes out as the winner in resetting IT'S operating model to compensate. This is usually accompanied by a severe loss of power and fuel economy - but that's a different horse in this rodeo.

    My antique 1986 Chevy K-10 Blazer OTOH ---> has a distributor - that by it's very age, cannot be made to run with the ECM because of a lack of parts to keep it so - and (again) since this vehicle is out of inspection window as being too old and therefore has been converted into Kias or Hummers by now - has a real, honest-to-goodness time-able distributor.

    But - it also has a Crane Comp cam, dual quads, a 7 speed automatic transmission and has been suspension-raised 8 inches with 33 x 16's. I can have my way with it very nicely - with or without any Indian fellows.




    .


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  7. #7
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurferJoe46 View Post
    Don't know about NZ autos
    But - in the US - almost all cars had (by 1995) phased-out any ability to 'adjust the timing' as it is preset and not adjustable

    The final Indian chap - seeing that you were adamant on having your 'timing adjusted' - just saw a way to earn some money from a person who knew what they wanted - but didn't understand the ramifications of the modern Otto-cycle, computer controlled internal combustion engine.

    .
    There are no NZ cars.

    I have a 1996 Corolla. Japanese. Yes it has a distributor. No he did not "see a way to make money". You know I can actually tell what incorrect timing sounds like as you drive.
    I stood there watching him adjust it, he got me to turn car on, off as he worked.

    It;s amazing how many bloody people make these patronising comments explaining to me it's all in my head and he did nothing at all to my car and how these cars don't have timing that can be adjusted etc etc.

    Not to mention all husbands mates, who, whenever in the car commented how the timing was out.

    yes, I knew that. Husband, in his defense, can't hear it, and tends to ignore anything on my car. But after he went up the road to test it last night, admitted yes, he'd noticed (the driving not noise) with it for a while now..

    Funny how when a man diagnoses something it exists, a woman and you get oh no, it' can't possibly be, not it doesn't even exist and all the other crap.

    Yes it has a distributor and timing marks. Yes it was out - because someone had messed with it - without a light. Why? Beats me, he wasn't asked to even touch my car at the time, but another "helpful" man, who was just "tuning" it, so husband told me....and he tends not to do things like go over and say WTF are you doing like I would have if I had caught him.
    Ex-pctek

  8. #8
    Senior Member piroska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    So here we go people:

    Year: 1996
    Make: TOYOTA
    Model: COROLLA
    Engine No: 5A-C258452 (5AFE)
    CC rating: 1,490cc


    OK? Ancient obviously.
    NZ, no, imported actually.

    NZ used to have english cars mainly once, apart from old Holdens, then mostly Japanese. Nowdays Jap, Korean, etc...

    A few US cars and things from europe and such. But not as much.

    Regardless, english or not, many still had and still do, have adjustable timing. Quite a few of us down here do own "old" cars.
    Some of us don't like putting them on tick and buy according to budget.
    Ex-pctek

  9. #9
    Soaring like a chicken prefect's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    1996 best place for it pick a part

  10. #10
    pcsourcepoint
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    Default Re: Shocking really, mechanics.

    You's made me remind me of my Optilux Timing light/dwell Meter/Tacho/Volt Meter which I forgot about. I last used around 2011. The year I traded my 1992 Nissan Avenir. Though parts were cheap on Trademe/Pick a Part. But got tired of frequently buying parts to fix the car; Also many of those parts would fail a short time later. so time to let it go, and to get larger car...

    Would not the points possibly be changed when resetting the timing? Particularly if the rubbing block is worn down, which I think alters the point's gap (and cause pitting/hollowing), and therefore increases/reduces the dwell. So wider (or smaller) gap, would mean shorter (or longer) dwell, thus less build of the coil's (magnetic)secondary charge - resulting in weaker spark.

    So if nothing's touched, it's the later/longer term wearing of points rubbing block causing the timing to change - i.e. advanced or retarded. I remember "points" distributors might be set at 5 - 10 degrees before TDC, but some electronic dizzy's I would set at around (as in specs) 15 - 19 degrees, i.e. 2 - 3 times as advanced...

    Also if timing is auto reset, won't this mean more fuel (perhaps earlier pulse- increased fuel trim) need be injected? Meaning a car could increase fuel consumption, without the owner/driver never knowing...
    Last edited by kahawai chaser; 08-03-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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