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  1. #21
    Zippity Fan Club Member prefect's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by KarameaDave View Post
    Commies! In power!
    I reckon a NF labor and greens jobbie is on the cards. I dont have a problem with it after 3 terms of National as these 3 will tear each other part.
    Its amazing how Potatoes give us chips,fries and Vodka.

    Get your s*** together every other vegetable.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    As to Jacinda's perceived lack of political experience, John Key was only an MP for 3 years before being PM.
    Amnesia International, remembering for those that can't.

    No trees were harmed in the making of this post but a few electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  3. #23
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whenu View Post
    As to Jacinda's perceived lack of political experience, John Key was only an MP for 3 years before being PM.
    Yes, but John Key, a player on the world stage with real life skills, brought more to the job than being a fish and chip shop worker for a few months, or being the leader of a communist youth organisation. Get real.

    Whoever forms the next government, they'll have the benefit of a healthy budget surplus into the billions. Any move further left will have that squandered within the ensuing year. Like Canada, Australia, France, ...
    Last edited by WalOne; 10-10-2017 at 09:56 AM.
    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

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    I've studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

    Leonard Cohen

  4. #24
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenESmith View Post
    "However I don't actually like it myself that individuals can enter parliament without being individually elected, not that I'm against minorities having seats"

    The thing that is objectionable with MMP is that a sitting electorate member can also be on the list, frequently high on the list, and if his/her electorate dumps the MP he/she is back in as a list MP.

    Sitting Electorate MPs should not have two bites at the cherry, ie at an election either stand as an electorate MP and pray their constituents love them enough to give them another go, or take their chances as a list MP - definitely not both.
    I agree, and weíve had some extreme twists to the same argument.

    For example, Bill English is Prime Minister whilst being only a List MP.

    Chris Finlayson has stood for a couple of Electorates and been rejected every time but was still made #6 on the National Party List which Included the position of Attorney General and Minister for Treaty Negotiations.

    But the icing on the cake in this one is, National Won the Party Vote in his electorate, but Labour won the Seat.

    What a joke, the people want a National Government but not their Representative and he gets placed at #6 on the Party List with major responsibilities. I see heís dropped to #9 now but fair go, the system is broken and needs fixing.

    I also see some are suggesting going back to FPP, but that system was removed because it didnít work and all the systems Iíve read about that are used in other Countryís donít seem to be foolproof either.

    Iím starting to think that the old adage that "A Benevolent Dictator is the best form of Government" may have some truth in it.
    Global Warming is Mann made.
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    The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

  5. #25
    Apple free in Appleby KarameaDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalOne View Post
    Yes, but John Key, a con-artist on the world stage with real spin skills, took more from the job than anyone with morals would.
    Whoever forms the next government, they'll have the liability of a sovereign debt increased from 6 billions under Labour last time, to 90 Billions under Double Dipton. Any move further left will have that reduced again in no time...
    Fixed that for you WalOne
    FTW

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nick G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Oh God, our absolute authority on everything is back.



    Ardern has quite a difficult hand to play and she wonít have to worry about what hand she has to play in three years time if she doesnít get the one in front of her right. A lot will depend on how some of the cagey old buggers play theirs.

    As for getting hammered next election, that would depend entirely on what sort of performance they put up in the next three years.



    The apprenticeship in Politics is long and hard and Winston was battling it out a couple of years before she was even born. I remain unrepentant, and think she needs to Coattail someone, but isnít exactly ďspoilt with choiceĒ.

    Anyway, as I said in the lead post, thatís what Iíd be looking at if I were her, but do feel free to advise the correct method.
    Forgive me for having an opinion

    I disagree that you need an 'apprenticeship' in Politics, but that's definitely pure opinion - although I think the notion that being experienced automatically makes you more suitable is rubbish

    As to whether it'd be political suicide, either I'll be proven right about it not happening, or I'll eat humble pie and then in 3 years time we can see if it was a bad move or not
    Quote Originally Posted by pcuser42 View Post
    38.7% of stasistics are made up on the spot, and 56.3% have a decimal point added to make them more believeable.
    Ryzen 5 1600 <> RX580 4GB <> 8GB Ram <> 240GB SSD <> 1TB HDD <> Windows 10


  7. #27
    Senior Member Nick G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    But the icing on the cake in this one is, National Won the Party Vote in his electorate, but Labour won the Seat.

    What a joke, the people want a National Government but not their Representative and he gets placed at #6 on the Party List with major responsibilities. I see he’s dropped to #9 now but fair go, the system is broken and needs fixing.
    Just to disagree again

    How is that a joke?
    Clearly, people voted for the local MP who would best represent and serve their electorate, but used their party vote for the party which had the policies they liked the best. The whole 'two ticks' business is nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by pcuser42 View Post
    38.7% of stasistics are made up on the spot, and 56.3% have a decimal point added to make them more believeable.
    Ryzen 5 1600 <> RX580 4GB <> 8GB Ram <> 240GB SSD <> 1TB HDD <> Windows 10


  8. #28
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by KarameaDave View Post
    Fixed that for you WalOne
    Ahh ... I didn't know it needed fixing. I stand by my original post #23.
    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

    Dr Lester Levy


    I've studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through.

    Leonard Cohen

  9. #29
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post

    Iím starting to think that the old adage that "A Benevolent Dictator is the best form of Government" may have some truth in it.
    unfortunately, if you want the country to move forward, thats the best option long term .

    We get election bribes every 3 years, not whats best for NZ, but bribe the masses just to get into power
    we get the possibility of a major change in planning and direction after only 3 years . How can NZ have a long term plan when the next party in power will change everything
    we get promises made that obviously cant be kept , or promises made that will cause issues (eg stupid lowering of tax rates, giving me $10 a week rather than put that to better use)
    we get bad decisons, just to keep one politicians electorate happy : eg the waterveiw tunnel : it would be considerably cheaper to bowl a few houses and build it on top of the dirt
    minorities making the most noise who pressure govt into things that may not be in the countries best interest.

    Would China be the rapidly growing powerhouse it is now, if they had our system of govt ?
    At least dictators can push things through and get stuff done .

  10. #30
    Golden Oldie
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    Default Re: Well what is the consensus of what the new Government will look like?

    "For example, Bill English is Prime Minister whilst being only a List MP."

    Nothing wrong with that.
    The German concept, which we copied, envisages party leaders and senior cabinet ministers being list MPs on the premise that these Senior politicians duties as PM and or senior ministers is such a high commitment that they have insufficient time available to adequately undertake constituency MP duties.

    As these individuals are normally the top names on the Party list, they do not normally get removed unless the election is a wipe out for the party.

    No the objectionable thing is the double bite of the cherry that allows electorate MPs to also run on the party list, it should be one or the other.

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