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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    I turn my desktop off nightly. In the morning, after the PC has booted I always (silly me) check for updates. Most mornings there are none but just sometimes there are and not always on a Wednesday either.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    I'd agree (again!!) with WT. While MS is trying to get updates done without intervention by the user, a bit of management and understanding can help. Checking for updates, occasionally, when you don't want to use it would help.

    Personally speaking, considering the complexity of these machines, the bigger miracle is that so many run so well with very limited skilled intervention!

    Most users know practically nothing about what is going on and are not prepared to invest any time in finding out. Some seem to think divine intervention is how we acquired our knowledge.

    Ask them whether they use the browser for email. Pause to explain what a browser is. And they won't be able to tell you which one they use.

    And knowledge of file/folder structure? Forget it. Backups? Again, forget it. Had a friend here yesterday. He told me he had a USB drive attached and his computer was continually updating it. What program was doing this? No idea. What files were being backed up? No idea. Is it, in fact, still working properly? No idea. But good on him for trying but you can't just set and forget.

    Etc etc.

    So, let us stop blaming MS for all our ills and pause to marvel at how much does get done well, in spite of the lack of management expertise.

  3. #23
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by linw View Post

    So, let us stop blaming MS for all our ills and pause to marvel at how much does get done well, in spite of the lack of management expertise.
    I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.
    MS didnt design things with them in mind, so MS ignored the needs of the av, non techy user

    one good example is Win7,10 backups . Win10 : its too damn hard to find (ie search "backup"). Then , rather than have a single, well designed backup system & sticking with
    it (ala Apple) , MS make it a confusing mess for the av user. Why have 2 completely diffenernt backup system in Win. Why have one of them that didnt even backup everything
    Why have a stitzo OS . To get to settings we have both control panel & Win settings .Then Win Tried to hide control Panel. We have normal desktop & Tiles. We have normal programs & apps

    So yes, blame MS . :-)
    this is why those who leave MS for Apple never come back.
    Last edited by 1101; 12-10-2017 at 10:59 AM.

  4. #24
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.
    MS didnt design things with them in mind, so MS ignored the needs of the av, non techy user

    one good example is Win7,10 backups . Win10 : its too damn hard to find (ie search "backup"). Then , rather than have a single, well designed backup system & sticking with
    it (ala Apple) , MS make it a confusing mess for the av user. Why have 2 completely diffenernt backup system in Win. Why have one of them that didnt even backup everything
    Why have a stitzo OS . To get to settings we have both control panel & Win settings .Then Win Tried to hide control Panel. We have normal desktop & Tiles. We have normal programs & apps

    So yes, blame MS . :-)
    this is why those who leave MS for Apple never come back.
    There one HUGE flaw with all that -- The AVERAGE USER.

    These are the same people who never did backups even in Windows 7, Never did any sort of maintence of ANY sort, Clicked on suspect popups /links even after being told countless times not to.
    Move a desktop Icon from one place on the desktop to another and OMG its all wrong, cant do that. Ask them what browser they are using and they cant tell you, and (heres the beaut) claim they have 1TB of memory - in other words dont know the differeance between a hard Drive /Memory.

    So it doesn't really matter how simplified MS try to make it some people simply cant do the tasks mentioned.

    There are some who I've dealt with, show them how to do backups ( basically 3 clicks) , and they still wont. Some want to save to cloud storage - yet tell them to put a file into either google drive or one drive folder and its to hard

    There have been a few people I've put on auto uploading programs to do backups of some degree, most dont even know they have them. Their main working data gets backed up automatically. There are a few, you can set up auto backups, BUT all they had to do was plug in a USB drive before a certain time -----Even that was to hard.

    EVEN with Apple, which has Time Machine. MANY still dont use it - to much trouble to plug in an external Drive.
    Last edited by wainuitech; 12-10-2017 at 11:36 AM.
    One thing positive about Windows 10 is that there is never a dull moment anymore on ye olde computer

  5. #25
    Enterprise IT Consultant chiefnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    I'd disagree . In the real world, the average user IS NOT tech savvy.
    Allow me to disagree right back...

    The rationale behind MS re-designing the Windows Update mechanism and platform is for the very reason you mention above. MS are very much aware that the average user is NOT tech savvy.

    To further strengthen my argument look no further than other product offerings and services such as OneDrive and the ubiquitous MS Account.

    MS brought these in because they know the average user isn't tech savvy, so why not provide a service or mechanism which allows them to save things on their computer but have them "backed" up automatically to OneDrive or the user's MS account in the cloud. Now if the average user is not as tech savvy as you say, and they left everything at defaults in Windows10 and signed in with a MS account, then they wouldn't lose their photos, docs music etc. or require a backup process because it would be available via their MS Account so even if they lost the OS and didn't save data outside their profile as long as they logged in with the same MS account they'd be fine. MS has actually designed Win10 around this whole principal, your data, anytime you want on any device you use as long as it has the same MS account signed in!

    The only people who would bypass the use of an MS account on the computer would be users such as ourselves who are more tech savvy and/or work in IT. Personally, if I come across a not so tech savvy person I encourage them to use a MS account as well as syncing the data to OneDrive or their MS account because it saves them a lot of angst and grief not mention reduces the need for me to make house calls when something breaks. I don't use this myself but that's because I run backups, AV/Malware scans, update Windows regularly and don't click on things I shouldn't be or don't trust. Any user can follow those simple steps...all of which can be googled and/or setup automatically for you by Windows with a few clicks... but you have to take some time and read stuff on the screen in front of you.

    The other thing is that most people in general are just plain ignorant and lazy. Tech savvyness aside, if you don't bother reading the instructions and make one or two changes to your system to ensure your own techno sanity then why are you surprised when things go belly up. It amazes me that even in this day and age some people (and I mean a lot) think that computers/technology just do stuff on their own, this may be the case with AI down the track but we are not there yet.

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  6. #26
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Let’s put things into perspective.

    Windows 10 is now 3 years old and still causing problems!

    I wonder what the Win10 Spin Doctors would say if they got in their car in the morning and got a message “Do Not put car in Drive as OS is updating” or, if you managed to get it going, you got home and got another message “Do Not switch off car as OS is configuring”.

    Then the next day you had to call a mechanic because the damn car wouldn’t do anything useful.

    May Microsoft never design Cars or Aeroplanes.
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  7. #27
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Let’s put things into perspective.

    Windows 10 is now 3 years old and still causing problems!
    Lets put the whole OS range in perspective, and when they came out ( this is general releases, not including servers)

    BTW W10 is only 2 years old, NOT 3

    XP -- October 25, 2001
    Vista - January 30, 2007
    Windows 7 - October 22, 2009
    Windows 8 - October 26, 2012
    Windows 10 - July 29, 2015

    The WHOLE LOT still give problems. The older the OS the more problems they have.

    When you deal with hundreds of computers like us real techs do a pattern develops very quickly as to what's causing problems.

    As I mentioned a while back ACTUAL OS repairs of W10 have all but dried up, its all hardware or infection related. If a HDD fails that's hardly the OS's fault.


    What ChiefNZ posted is spot on, esp the last sentence . Sometimes its a user that's caused a problem in the first place.
    Last edited by wainuitech; 12-10-2017 at 03:57 PM.
    One thing positive about Windows 10 is that there is never a dull moment anymore on ye olde computer

  8. #28
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    BTW W10 is only 2 years old, NOT 3
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Global Warming is Mann made.
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  9. #29
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Win10.jpg 
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ID:	8338

    That's not wrong, BUT please see what I put in Brackets "this is general releases"

    This means when it was released to the public.

    It was announced earlier, but not generally available. The insider ( pre-release) versions were out to testers, but not generally released.

    Example of that - See the start date of the thread in Chat http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthr...t-Tech-Preview Things have changed quite a bit since then

    Shortly, the next upgrade will be out ( reported 17th October) it will be version 1709 = 2017/ Month 9 ( current is 1703) code named RedStone 3. The 9th month was when it was completed, between then and now they are tidying up bits and pieces. Already got it on a couple of Computers.

    The next version Red Stone 4 is also due out shortly, maybe even this week. What the general public get, people who want to play with insider builds have had for some time now, weeks sometimes months ahead. That's why sometimes when working on customers computers I say Under my breath "awhh crap" This is still behind, the option I want is not yet available to general.

    As reported https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-...-ring-tomorrow.
    Last edited by wainuitech; 12-10-2017 at 05:39 PM.
    One thing positive about Windows 10 is that there is never a dull moment anymore on ye olde computer

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Win10 Update ...???

    Looks like the update that came out yesterday for Windows 10 1703, really screwed things up for some people. It caused a BSOD

    Thankfully, I did a clean install of 1709 on Tuesday

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