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  1. #1
    Member mzee's Avatar
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    Angry How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    Comp: HP Stream G3
    Partition Table: GPT
    Loader system: EFI
    Installed OS: Windows 10 education
    Dual boot: Linux Mint 18.2

    The problem here is that although Mint boots and runs perfectly, you have to <ESC> <F9> to find the Ubuntu loader, same as a USB.
    I tried to use Easy BSD but discovered that many of its functions are disabled, in that it can only see Microsoft Systems.
    Apparently all computers with Windows 8/10 pre-installed are the same.

    This really annoys me. What gives them the right to prevent me from adding systems to MY Computer?

    This is a challenge. How to get around this dictatorial situation?
    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    Sorry sunshine, you're barking up the wrong tree. You have even said it yourself

    in that it can only see Microsoft Systems
    It's not Microsoft/windows thats the problem , its HP. They have designed their systems to work on Windows.

    If you read the manual, its states:
    Table 1-1 Minimum hardware and software for clients
    Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, or Windows PE (version 4.0.1.1 or later)
    NOTE: BIOS setting management is supported under Windows PE 3.x, 4.0, or 5.0.
    On those cheap low spec budget laptops the manufactures often don't include full features to save money with cheaper chipsets etc.

    So how is it Microsoft Fault that the manufacture, in this case HP, don't design or allow the hardware to run on as dual boot with another OS, in this case Linux ??
    Update / Upgrades = Replace old bugs with new ones.

  3. #3
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    MS don't write the BIOS except perhaps for their own hardware such as the surface range, and if they only build them to run windows that's their call. You can't install windows on an android tablet as a comparison.
    Anyway what about if you install Linux to an actual hard drive? the problem may be simply that you are using a boot device that the manufacturer didn't include support for.
    I've run Linux on EFI machines, both direct from a flash drive and installed to a hard drive - no problems. I also installed from a live Linux flash drive onto a blank flash drive successfully. I have also run linux from an SD card on an acer tablet and that worked too.

    One thing that may help, I've found on some systems the option to boot from a device doesn't appear until after the device is connected and an OS installed to it, and then sometimes appears as if it's a hard drive among the boot order options rather than as an external device. For example my installed linux on a flash drive was found among the installed hard drives in the boot order. I think depending on the OS and install method these devices emulate another type of media such as a hard drive or floppy drive.
    Ryzen 2700X, 16Gb DDR4RAM, 512GB M.2 NVME SSD, MSI GTX1070

  4. #4
    Senior Member fred_fish's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    From your booted Mint.system check out the efibootmgr utility and it's options.
    You can generally use this to insert a boot entry into the EFI and set the default boot priority.
    But as WT says, some EFI implementations are not compliant with the official specification.

  5. #5
    Member mzee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred_fish View Post
    From your booted Mint.system check out the efibootmgr utility and it's options.
    You can generally use this to insert a boot entry into the EFI and set the default boot priority.
    But as WT says, some EFI implementations are not compliant with the official specification.
    I will try that. It boots fine but only if you go to F9, I am using it at the moment.

    As for blaming HP for blocking other OS, Microsoft will have done a deal with them

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    HP do the same thing with their hardware / wireless cards. You cant install anything you like.

    Unless it's HP or supported by whatever laptop it wont work. Unless you flash a hacked BIOS

  7. #7
    Mature Linux nerd Rod J's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    I think rEFInd might be useful to you.

    Install refind in Mint and when you boot your system it pops up a nice graphical boot menu that will either boot your Mint kernel directly or you can have it boot into your Mint's Grub menu. It's very flexible (boots Windows too).

    To install it in Mint (based on Ubuntu) you can do this in a terminal:

    Code:
    sudo apt-add-repository ppa:rodsmith/refind
    sudo apt-get update
    sudo apt-get install refind
    This will add a small repository to your Mint system which will make it easier to update refind from time to time. Rod Smith (author of refind) is quite an authority on booting EFI systems and is very well known and respected in Linux circles.

    This is Rod's page on installing refind: http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/installing.html
    "Oh Ubuntu, you are my favorite Linux-based operating system!" - Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory.

  8. #8
    Member mzee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred_fish View Post
    From your booted Mint.system check out the efibootmgr utility and it's options.
    You can generally use this to insert a boot entry into the EFI and set the default boot priority.
    But as WT says, some EFI implementations are not compliant with the official specification.
    I used efibootmgr and set Ubuntu to the top. Checked it again & was Ok. Rebooted, you guessed it, Bill had changed it back to windows at the top and Ubuntu 2nd.

  9. #9
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by mzee View Post
    I used efibootmgr and set Ubuntu to the top. Checked it again & was Ok. Rebooted, you guessed it, Bill had changed it back to windows at the top and Ubuntu 2nd.
    That could confirm what Fred posted
    some EFI implementations are not compliant with the official specification.
    The problem could be because it's the way HP designed that particular Laptop. You can dual boot other laptops windows/linux with out problems.

    Just found the following article, Number 4 & 5 may help, if you have fast boot enabled still that can cause a problem.

    dual-boot-windows-10-linux-mint-18-1

    If not then you may find the BIOS isn't capable.
    Update / Upgrades = Replace old bugs with new ones.

  10. #10
    Member mzee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to break the monopoly of BIOS in new computers by Microsoft.

    All my other computers have old fashioned MSDOS Partition tables with MBR. I have all sorts of systems on them. This HP has kept my brain busy for hours. Its pretty tough, I have replaced the OS's several times and updated the BIOS. I did try to replace W10 with W7, first a CD on an external optical drive, and then with a USB stick. In both cases the install stopped after the screen where you enter your location, language etc, "no driver available for optical drive". This does not happen with W8 or 10. What to do?

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