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  1. #31
    Where is Metla these days Chilling_Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Yep, again though it depends on your ISP, who they're peering with, where it's being routed.

    I uploaded 30GB to Google in ~15 minutes earlier today. Downloaded 50GB from the USA in ~20 mins...

    You can bag it all you like, but it *is* possible when your ISP isn't being cheap. Speedtests are a great indication of what your connection is capable of, and can help pinpoint issues along the way...
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  2. #32
    IT Consultant johcar's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    I don't expect to get 1000/500 100% of the time, but I do expect to get a significant percentage of the rate their advertising claims.

    To me, getting 820/460 on one speed test and then ten minutes later, against the same servers, getting 350/250 is not playing the game. I would be happy with that first result...

    Fibre shouldn't have the kinds of load/congestion issues that Copper does.

    (Plus I live in a new subdivision, surrounded by oldies, who, if they have Fibre, probably only use it for email)

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  3. #33
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Fibre shouldn't have the kinds of load/congestion issues that Copper does.
    It doesn't, but whose to say if you were getting something the location has fibre as well. ??

    Your connection to your own ISP may be fibre, but after that it can change to another type of connection, as mentioned previously, sometimes the slowest connection ( or server/hop) will be as fast as it will go.

    Its really quite surprising how many people don't know how the internet connections actually work. If Every ISP in the world, and every server had fibre capable connections then connections would be more consistent.

    The other day I did a speedtest, it was rubbish compared to what I normally get, yet downloading was 4 times faster using a download manager because it was getting the file from multi sources ( 9 in total all at the same time).
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  4. #34
    amateur expert dugimodo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    The internet relies on the fact that most people don't use their full bandwidth very often. If they built a network that could supply full speed to all of their customers all the time nobody could afford what it would cost. It's always going to be a trade off between capacity and cost but the better ISPs spend a bit more on capacity so that you don't get bottlenecked by them so often. Fibre is not immune to congestion, as it grows more backhaul capacity will get added but not before it's needed. It costs too much to have too much unused bandwidth available. All ISPs play a balancing game with varying degrees of success of customer demand/predicted growth vs bandwidth cost.

    Typically each fibre is split to up 16 customers (32 in some cases but 16 has become fairly standard) and connected to the nearest GPON shelf which might have say 64 fibre ports (depends on equipment type, could be more, could be less).
    So if it was fully utilised you could have 64 x 16 customers (1024) all with 50 or 100M plans. Even off that one equipment shelf that's a theoretical bandwidth of up to 102.4 gb/s without even considering Gb customers. In practice it might have 1 or more Gb connections into the cloud, or possibly a 10G connection but if so probably only 1 for 100m or lower plans.

    It goes like this every step of the way, everything get's aggregated into fewer and fewer faster connections none of which have the capacity for the theoretical speed the customers could use. How well the ISPs calculate peak demand and cater for it is where the differences lay. It's like our road system. No road in NZ could handle all the traffic in the country at once but it doesn't need to because traffic is spread out all over the place. As each road gets congested upgrades are planned and budgeted for but for a while things can get pretty bad. Some ISPs spend more on bigger roads than others do.
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  5. #35
    Where is Metla these days Chilling_Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Quote Originally Posted by wainuitech View Post
    The other day I did a speedtest, it was rubbish compared to what I normally get, yet downloading was 4 times faster using a download manager because it was getting the file from multi sources ( 9 in total all at the same time).
    That points to congestion / throttling occurring at your ISP level.

    Speedtests should always be fast, Ookla metrics don't accept you unless you can dedicate 1Gbps of bandwidth to them. Sure, that download of some home-made game from a dudes shared-hosting Go Daddy server will never reach 1gbps, but if your speedtest is giving you rubbish speeds within NZ, then that's definitely congestion / throttling by your ISP.

    As johcar mentioned: Same server

    Although most servers probably have a gigabit ethernet port (Or possibly SPF+ if they're virtualizing a bunch on the same hardware), the rest of the connections for an ISP are going to be fibre. You can't get away with copper, and this isn't some Joe Bloggs running a speedtest.net server on his home VDSL2 connection.

    Also, Chorus have confirmed there is *no* congestion ever occurring on their VDSL2 / UFB network, hence the reason why they've opened up the floodgates with Gig UFB plans as opposed to the previous 200mbps ones. They've got capacity coming out their ears that's simply un-utilized!
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  6. #36
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilling_Silence View Post
    That points to congestion / throttling occurring at your ISP level.

    Speedtests should always be fast, Ookla metrics don't accept you unless you can dedicate 1Gbps of bandwidth to them. As johcar mentioned: Same server

    Although most servers probably have a gigabit ethernet port (Or possibly SPF+ if they're virtualizing a bunch on the same hardware), the rest of the connections for an ISP are going to be fibre. You can't get away with copper, and this isn't some Joe Bloggs running a speedtest.net server on his home VDSL2 connection.

    Also, Chorus have confirmed there is *no* congestion ever occurring on their VDSL2 / UFB network, hence the reason why they've opened up the floodgates with Gig UFB plans as opposed to the previous 200mbps ones. They've got capacity coming out their ears that's simply un-utilized!
    Kind of makes previous comment suggest that its the ISP then.

    As Johcar posted.
    To me, getting 820/460 on one speed test and then ten minutes later, against the same servers, getting 350/250 is not playing the game
    Speed tests are up and down all the time. one minute can fast, few minutes later slow. Its only when its consistently slower than what you should be getting you want to look a bit deeper as to why.

    As for my example, if Vodafone were throttling then they wouldn't allow all the connections to max out the download speed. Download managers get the file from various places all over the world, bring them through to your 1 connection and they reassemble.

    As for congestion - The other day I was talking to Vodafone, and the guy said theres 200 customers assigned to the same node I use, at that time 162 ( I think it was) are connected and using, and the speed was fine and getting what I pay for.
    Last edited by wainuitech; 07-01-2017 at 10:25 AM.
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  7. #37
    Where is Metla these days Chilling_Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Not true sadly, on both counts.

    1) Speed tests shouldn't vary 1 minute fast, 10 minutes slower. Ask any of the customers we have on 100mbps UFB, VDSL2, they will *always* get their line speed when testing to NZ, Australia, and most of the west coast of the USA. We're not currently big enough to be able to say the same for Gigabit UFB users though, as it means you have to have a LOT more room up your sleeve.
    If he's getting 820/460 within NZ one moment, then 10 minutes later getting 350/250, that's *highly* likely oversubscription from his ISP (Possibly peak time congestion?)

    2) Vodafone are known to throttle each HTTP connection to a limited amount based on their total congestion. Similar to back in the day Spark would heavily throttle their BigPipe users, but you could use a download manager which would help, or use a non-HTTP / FTP protocol (So Usenet was fine). Again, it's your ISP.

    While we're looking at it, "162 online" is not a lot. That's probably 200 customers on a single gigabit router, only 162 actually online, meaning if they've allocated 1 Gig CIR then yeah you *should* be getting decent speeds. That means that for whatever reason, they've got 38 users out of 200 who have connections that have **** themselves, cable fault, dodgy modems etc... Those are *terrible* stats for an ISP to have.

    I can keep saying this til the cows come home, but it really just is Vodafone oversubscribing terribly, and giving you the wild variance in up and down speeds mate, believe me or not, but I'm not the one who's settling for a sub-par connection :-/
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  8. #38
    Large Member plod's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    I went on Vodafone gigabit cable connection. I'm getting a quarter of advertised speed if I'm lucky. But as we have no fibre in the area and VDSL just wasn't cutting it with 4 adults streaming.

  9. #39
    Computer Technician wainuitech's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Well Chill, Basically we are agreeing on the same thing.
    Its actual facts that the speeds are never consistent, hell you even said it yourself in post 31.

    Yep, again though it depends on your ISP, who they're peering with, where it's being routed.
    Your own ISP may not throttle, but others may.

    As I mentioned, which is also the same point you hit on
    If he's getting 820/460 within NZ one moment, then 10 minutes later getting 350/250, that's *highly* likely oversubscription from his ISP (Possibly peak time congestion?)
    Which is what I said before anyway, and if its always doing that then it needs to be looked into

    believe me or not, but I'm not the one who's settling for a sub-par connection :-/
    Whose complaining, I'm not, ??? I could pay more and get even faster, but it's not worth it. I can easily start a download, a W10 ISO around 4GB (as an example) , walkout to the kitchen, turn on the jug, put the coffee and sugar in a cup, come back and in less time its downloaded. Plenty fast enough thank you.


    On the Plan that I'm on I would say at least 90-95%% of the time I can max out my connection if I wanted to, it all depends on whats being downloaded and from where, and speed tests are usually in the same range. Just did a speed test while downloading a 4GB ISO -- Actually went 100% of what I pay for. So no throttling there

    No ISP can guarantee 100% speed all the time. Even with the speed/plan you have, I bet you never have that transfer rate all the time. ( the example given).
    Last edited by wainuitech; 08-01-2017 at 04:04 PM.
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  10. #40
    Where is Metla these days Chilling_Silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't want to brag or anything....

    Err yeah we get 100mbps all the time
    Gig plans are a little different, we don't have that much "surplus".
    Last edited by Chilling_Silence; 08-01-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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