The Dairy & Coal Industries not thinking outside the square.

[mzee]

It seems to me that both the Dairy and Coal industries are doing the normal Kiwi thing. We sell milk powder, we sell coal, don't care if you wan't them or not! Used to be Mutton & Wool.

In South Africa they have been making Oil, Petrol and Gas from coal since the second world war, and Germany during the war. There are millions of Indians who love cooking with Ghee (clarified butter). If you make a range of secondary products from your main product you will have a much larger range of customers. I used to sell petrol (Sassol) made from Coal at my Service Station in Natal. I used to blend this with Cane spirit (white rum), performed very well. The Cane spirit had a green dye in it with a bitter taste, but it didn't stop the attendant from getting paralytic.

[B.M.]

I used to sell petrol (Sassol) made from Coal at my Service Station in Natal. I used to blend this with Cane spirit (white rum), performed very well.

Outrageous, you wasted White Rum on a car?

My car won’t be seeing any of mine. (and it’s probably grateful)

[1101]

yes yes yes no no no.
NZ used to make petrol from gas, NZ invested many millions in it. Complete waste of money that ran at a huuuge loss.
will be the same with coal. If if was worthwhile & economic, we would be doing it allready.

the South Africans have been doing this for a very long time because of the years of historic sanctions, not because its a great idea

[mzee]

yes yes yes no no no.
NZ used to make petrol from gas, NZ invested many millions in it. Complete waste of money that ran at a huuuge loss.
will be the same with coal. If if was worthwhile & economic, we would be doing it allready.

the South Africans have been doing this for a very long time because of the years of historic sanctions, not because its a great idea

Making Petrol from natural gas is stupid, it is already a clean burning fuel. Coal on the other hand is not wanted because of its pollution characteristics. Much better turn it into Gas and Oil/Petrol and stop importing. Keep people employed.

[1101]

Making Petrol from natural gas is stupid, it is already a clean burning fuel. Coal on the other hand is not wanted because of its pollution characteristics. Much better turn it into Gas and Oil/Petrol and stop importing. Keep people employed.

Are you really willing to pay 3x the cost of petrol, for your coal conversion scheme .
99% of Kiwis wont.

Keeping people employed in dead industries is not sustainable .

[Lurking]

You forgot to mention Kiwi Fruit !, at least that product is being grown o/seas on Zespri's behalf, Italy is one country.

Don't Fontera have a company in South America along the same lines?.

lurking.

Ps. they couldn't even put up a Kiwi on the flag designs', we are usually called Kiwis and our bros' would be pleased as well.

lurks.

[Paul.Cov]

The thing that is killing coal is the looming burden of carbon taxes.

Coal is traditionally used for little more than heat.

Our transport fuels are also carbon based, but because these fuels have much wider reaching uses and benefits than just heating alone, our govt is essentially cushioning us from the real impact of carbon prices on our transport networks (note however, this is a temporary measure - we'll eventually have to be paying the full carbon price on all our fuels and gases).

Once fuel starts to get properly carbon taxed we'll all start waking up to an uncomfortable and expensive reality - our widely dispersed population with relativley small population centres (towns/cities) and shockingly inadequate public transport systems will make life very tough and many of the basics we take for granted now may become unaffordable for the majority of people.

And then the increasingly high costs of shipping our imports/exports to/from NZ will also make prices go sour, and our international competitiveness will disappear when our geographic isolation (ie shipping costs) really hits home.

Consider the Fontera issues in light of higher energy costs. Milking requires energy every day, transport energies every day, and because of our distance to major markets we can't sell the fresh product, so we have to commit huge amounts of energy (carbon) into drying the stuff every day to make it sufficiently stable and light for the lengthy trip to market.
Our overseas competitors can sell the wet stuff directly to their own consumers, skipping out the drying and the international shipping. Once carbon costs kick in our international dairy trade will be dead.

Drystock farming for meat will face far less of a carbon challenge (compared to dairy) in the future. It involves only a few trips per year to the freezing works, where the product is disected, packaged, frozen and shipped, as opposed to dairy where there's twice daily trips to the factory, the product boiled down to nothing but powder, packaged, shipped.

Farms a long way from the dairy factory will have to convert to meat / food crops or forestry / biofuels. Dairy factories will become smaller and closer to their domestic markets.

The current system where a cow in the far of the far north can produce the same return as a cow next door to the dairy factory is simply unsustainable in a world straining to survive under carbon taxes.

How many dairy farmers can and will willingly make the transition? And how many will go bust (and maybe take the banks down with them) when they are unable to pay the mortgage under these changes?

It's all just a carbon tax away, and we're pushing up our carbon debt with every passing year - like yet another deficit that the future generations are being left to somehow pay off.

[Terry Porritt]

...........and somewhere there is this huge mountain of carbon tax building up..........where does it go?.........what is it used for?.................who is living it up and creaming a fortune off the top of it ?..............will governments ever return it to the rightful owners ?.................yet another of the mysteries of the modern world !

[kenj]

The only problem with running cars on coal is that it beggars up the streamlining.

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/...-vehicles.html

Ken

[tweak'e]

diesel can be made from coal. however i understand its fairly low grade and is very dirty. has a large amount of very fine particle matter.
tho i can't remember what the effect of this on modern injection systems.