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  1. #101
    Senior Member SanChippy's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Boo Hoo.
    Anyway, with Memorial Park being built and the Mt. Victoria Motorway thing happening in Wellington there is a very slight chance that they could find a Maori burial site of some sort, then the whole thing would get shut down.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erayd View Post
    I think you missed the point - I have no problem with you criticising the government (even in cases where we might disagree), nor do I have any desire to close down discussion on the subject.

    What I do find annoying is a large number of negative threads all complaining about the same subject - *regardless* of the subject....

    I have no wish to blacklist you, and from time to time those threads can actually contain pretty decent debate. .
    Not picking on you Erayd, you have politely expressed the exasperation felt by others. However IMHO freedom of speech is a crucial element of our democracy and BM is expressing indignation on a stream of issues for which many people have a fellow feeling. In short, government grants/payments/compensation (call it what you will) offends many quiet hard working people who never see any thanks or recognition for their part in society.

    Now I don't always agree with BM and others but I do believe they have the right to be heard. Open debate is critical to an open society.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by B.M. View Post
    Did you conveniently not read this bit Winston?

    Waikanae Community Board chairman and lawyer Michael Scott said yesterday: "Yet again the council has potentially undermined people's property values.
    "They should have discussed the issue with property owners before dropping the information on LIMs [land information memorandums] and titles.


    I would have thought as a Lawyer you would realise that having such a claim registered on a LIM report for your property effectively renders that property valueless and un-sellable.

    I’ve seen first hand how damaging an incorrect LIM report can be and to have Maori Claims registered against the properties is simply outrageous.
    Yes that sounds all very dramatic but we need to remind ourselves this is a newspaper report, not a statement from the Law Commission. Our journalists are dreadfully shallow these days.

    The quote you make is from the Community Board - not the Council. And it is a sound-bite, emotive and lacking detail. I repeat - the actual decision to record the 40 sites is subject to public submissions to the Council by 1 March 2013 - after which a decision will be made. That decision can be appealed to the Environment Court and beyond, which overturns Councils quite regularly.

    Incidentally if I was the Community Board Chair I might say the same thing because that's what the local community want said - it wouldn't necessarily be my professional or personal opinion.

  4. #104
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    Yes that sounds all very dramatic but we need to remind ourselves this is a newspaper report, not a statement from the Law Commission. Our journalists are dreadfully shallow these days.

    The quote you make is from the Community Board - not the Council. And it is a sound-bite, emotive and lacking detail. I repeat - the actual decision to record the 40 sites is subject to public submissions to the Council by 1 March 2013 - after which a decision will be made. That decision can be appealed to the Environment Court and beyond, which overturns Councils quite regularly.

    Incidentally if I was the Community Board Chair I might say the same thing because that's what the local community want said - it wouldn't necessarily be my professional or personal opinion.
    I take your point about the reliability of the media Winston, but my concern is having a matter like this placed on a LIM report. I assume that has happened because they have named a Lawyer who shares my view on the matter.

    For a Council to act in this manner must leave them open to all sorts of redress as pointed out by Mr Scott.

    “He believed the council was leaving itself dangerously exposed to compensation claims, following any judicial reviews of its decisions.”

    The trouble here is that any successful compensation claims won’t be met by those that erred, but by the poor ratepayer.

    As you point out the matter is not a fait accompli, but, to receive a letter of this nature

    “One property owner, who did not want to be named, received a council letter last month "out of the blue" stating that Maori researchers believed a pa site and an urupa may have been on his land.
    The letters outlined restrictions on what could be done on the land, including earthworks, modification of existing buildings and subdivision. The only land disturbance permitted was "for the purpose of human burials".


    suggests to me the Council see it as a done deal.

    I just hope it doesn’t set a precedent and we have every lame brain Council running around placing caveats on people’s properties at the whim of the local Iwi.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

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  5. #105
    Wrinkly Member! B.M.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    Now I don't always agree with BM and others but I do believe they have the right to be heard. Open debate is critical to an open society.
    My view too Winston. Whilst we may not share some opinions I will defend to the end your right not to.
    Global Warming is Mann made.

    Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
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    The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  6. #106
    mikebartnz
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    Not picking on you Erayd, you have politely expressed the exasperation felt by others. However IMHO freedom of speech is a crucial element of our democracy and BM is expressing indignation on a stream of issues for which many people have a fellow feeling. In short, government grants/payments/compensation (call it what you will) offends many quiet hard working people who never see any thanks or recognition for their part in society.

    Now I don't always agree with BM and others but I do believe they have the right to be heard. Open debate is critical to an open society.
    Well said.
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  7. #107
    Frank and Earnest. Cicero's Avatar
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Erayd will say nothing, he might end up attached to an opinion.
    "The life of the dead is placed in the memory of the living." Cicero

  8. #108
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erayd View Post
    B.M - If you're wanting to publicly moan about so many issues, how about starting a single 'political moaning' thread, and putting each new item in there? This approach would avoid the 'million moaning threads' problem, but still allow you to vent without cluttering up the forum.
    Interesting the OP never responded to the excellent idea, a good compromise. Perhaps that would suggest their purpose is as much about stirring as informing ?

  9. #109
    In a 1920s time warp Terry Porritt's Avatar
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Alternatively, an appropriate BB code could be used like white on white: so that the text becomes invisible unless the screen is held in front of a fire to reveal the invisible writing

  10. #110
    mikebartnz
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    Default Re: In keeping with the Government’s wishes?

    Quote Originally Posted by globe View Post
    Interesting the OP never responded to the excellent idea, a good compromise. Perhaps that would suggest their purpose is as much about stirring as informing ?
    and what is your purpose in continually carrying on like this.
    Computers are like Air Conditioners, they stop working when you open Windows.

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