I have no use for a cave man language

I heard someone say, just recently, that everyone knows and uses maori words daily. Well I do know some maori words - you can't help knowing some maori words as they are used by TVNZ and others fairly often - but I don't use maori words - English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them.

TVNZ announcers - Simon Dallow in particular - mumble on with some maori (I assume) phrases that I have no idea what they mean and I imagine that the majority of viewers would not know what they are mumbling about either.:groan: So why do they do it? Just to be PC? Let's speak English which is the language that the majority of NZers understand.

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

... English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them.

.

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but you dont seem to mind all the French, German, Latin words in the English Language ???

Maori is an official Language in NZ . So better get used to it :)

I always get a chuckle when watching sign language. SWMBO growls at me for laughing about it. :)

Then, I showed her this one.......

https://youtu.be/5iqjGCLXQyA Caution! This may offend you!

Ken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

I heard someone say, just recently, that everyone knows and uses maori words daily. Well I do know some maori words - you can't help knowing some maori words as they are used by TVNZ and others fairly often - but I don't use maori words - English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them.

TVNZ announcers - Simon Dallow in particular - mumble on with some maori (I assume) phrases that I have no idea what they mean and I imagine that the majority of viewers would not know what they are mumbling about either.:groan: So why do they do it? Just to be PC? Let's speak English which is the language that the majority of NZers understand.

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The title of your post suggests that one way to solve your problem might be to re-calibrate the way you see the world and how other people live.

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Originally Posted by 1101

but you dont seem to mind all the French, German, Latin words in the English Language ???

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At least I know what all those words mean. I learnt them all at school. But I have no idea what all those maori words mean.

And it does not make any difference that it's an official language. NZ Sign language is also an official language and I have no idea what all those gestures mean either, but according to you I had "better get used to it." Well, I'm not going to get used to either of them. Neither language has any relevance or use to me and I don't think that maori, being an official language, is understood by anyone just because it is an official language. But from your attitude, it seems that you may be in the minority and you understand maori. Well, good on you. But I am NZ European and English is my language and I have no use for a cave man language.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kenj

I always get a chuckle when watching sign language. SWMBO growls at me for laughing about it. :)

Then, I showed her this one.......

https://youtu.be/5iqjGCLXQyA Caution! This may offend you!

Ken

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Very good, Ken. At least I understood that sign language.:lol:

The shut up about it. You don't have to talk about it when you said you "don't care". The world wouldn't stop for you.

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Originally Posted by 1101

Maori is an official Language in NZ . So better get used to it :)

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And English is not. :)

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

I have no use for a cave man language.:rolleyes:

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kiriweti tawhito kaikiri

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Originally Posted by kenj

I always get a chuckle when watching sign language. SWMBO growls at me for laughing about it. :)

Then, I showed her this one.......

https://youtu.be/5iqjGCLXQyA Caution! This may offend you!

Ken

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Cant find it now, But remember a Clip where Kevin Bloody Wilson (Aussie comedian) was taking the Piss out on the Signer at one of his concerts, he was saying he kind of feels bad for the signer, but its fun giving him a hard time with all the foul language and jokes, and the cameras turned to the Signer guy who was signing what was being said, he was cracking up laughing at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them.

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That must be damn awkward seeing as you live in Onehunga. Do you just give your GPS co-ordinates instead of your address?

Some people have a right bee in their bonnet at the moment. Intolerant.

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Originally Posted by Jen

That must be damn awkward seeing as you live in Onehunga.

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I was not talking about maori names (as in towns or suburbs) I was talking about using maori words instead of English words, which many people do not understand. If you read my post fully, you would have read that I was talking about Simon Dallow in particular mumbling maori phrases that few people understand.:groan:

I had no use for sign language either until my sister had a deaf son, deaf from birth and I realised that it is an official language in the UK and bloody hard to learn, my niece two years younger than my deaf nephew never spoke until she started school age 5 and I mean never. As a family we tried everything but because her brother didn't speak she wouldn't. However once she did start nothing stops her.

Not learning the official languages of your country isn't a waste of time, it is en-fact incredibly embarrassing and if you are too rude not to learn just don't put your ignorance on show keep it to yourself.

There is a time and place for everything. It is extremely annoying when random Maori phrases which few understand are introduced into what is actually supposed to be a news program in English which is still an official language in this country. I have no problem with people speaking their own language whenever they want to but language is supposed to convey information from one person to another if it doesn't do that it is a waste of time. I can make myself understood in a few different languages but I am not about to start imposing them on others just to pretend to be clever.

Quite agree, Clive. That's just what I think.

And I think that you are right that you are "not about to start imposing them on others just to pretend to be clever." And I think that that has a lot to do with it - just pretending to be clever. But I don't think it's all that clever when, as you say, few understand. I think that they are just using maori words just for the sake of using maori words.

I too, have no problem with people speaking their own language among themselves, but when they use their language in a situation where few understand it in place of English words, among English speakers, then I think that it is, as you say, just pretending to be clever. And I think I've heard enough! Let's get back to the language that the majority understand and put maori where it belongs - with the maoris and don't impose it upon English speakers, such as myself, who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about:angry

Jesus Roscoe, why not just change the thread title to "I'm uneducated and racist"? It would be more accurate.

Te Reo belongs with all of us - it is part of what makes Aotearoa unique and we all have a part to play in keeping the language alive.

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Originally Posted by Nick G

Te Reo belongs with all of us - it is part of what makes Aotearoa unique and we all have a part to play in keeping the language alive.

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It might belong to you but it certainly does not belong to me. It might be unique but I don't have or want any part in keeping it alive. It should be the maoris who want to keep it alive - not me. Having no interest in the maori language does not make me any more racist than not having any interest in the French language makes me anti French.

I reiterate: I am NZ European and English is my language and I have no interest in a cave man language and in particular I object to it being pushed upon me, in particular, on TVNZ.

And I'm not the only person with that opinion. Did you not read what CliveM had to say? I don't see you taking him to task.:illogical

What the hell is wrong with this country?

On one hand we have people deploring Racism, and on the other the same people are promoting it.

Somebody tell them they can’t have it both ways. :rolleyes:

The light is ON or Off.

For me this "Special Treatment" for Maori has gone too far and is straight out Racist.

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Originally Posted by B.M.

For me this "Special Treatment" for Maori has gone too far and is straight out Racist.

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I quite agree, BM. And it has been going on for years. One example is maori going to university. Europeans have to pay to go to university but not maori. You would have thought that that would encourage more maori to attend university but that does not seem to be the case.:annoyed:

And you're quite right. I call it racism in reverse.:angry

Simon Dallow's persistent use of Maori arrogance, really pisses me off.

As does one TV weather reporter.

I agree 100% with those sick of the use of cave man language.

Just wait and see. I'm glad I wont be here to see it but, in 10 years 15% of our population will be in total control of this country to our great detriment. They are well on their way now! The younger generation of do-gooders have no idea of the trouble that will inflict us having opened the Genii's bottle.

Just keep in mind that the vast majority of Maori would prefer to just get on with their lives exactly the same way as anyone else. It is a small number of educated radicals and politicians who mostly appear to have more European ancestry than Maori plus a fair few wet liberals that make all the noise. They are the ones that get the money the average person doesn't see any of it. The exception is the Ngai Tahu down south who it seems look after their own people and are very astute business owners but then they have more Scottish blood than Maori anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bryan

Just wait and see. I'm glad I wont be here to see it but, in 10 years 15% of our population will be in total control of this country to our great detriment. They are well on their way now! The younger generation of do-gooders have no idea of the trouble that will inflict us having opened the Genii's bottle.

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And it's interesting to note that in this discussion the maoris are conspicuous by their absence.:illogical

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

And it's interesting to note that in this discussion the maoris are conspicuous by their absence.:illogical

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That's because they are out spending our money.

Remember they didn't have any. ;)

Sooner or later us White people and the new Chinese and Indian immigrants which will be about 50% of the population are are going to say enough is enough and put these people back in their place. The blacks say the treaty is a fraud no problem abrogate it.

A detail that has not been mentioned so far: Maori are not, and never were, "cavemen".

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Originally Posted by Jayess64

A detail that has not been mentioned so far: Maori are not, and never were, "cavemen".

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They were stone age people didnt live in caves because there were none.

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Originally Posted by prefect

They were stone age people didnt live in caves because there were none.

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Knowing you are from the Nelson area you and I both know NZ has thousands of caves

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Originally Posted by gary67

Knowing you are from the Nelson area you and I both know NZ has thousands of caves

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Yes but they are not habitable especially the ones on the Tablelands.

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Originally Posted by prefect

Yes but they are not habitable especially the ones on the Tablelands.

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I don't know Nettlebed cave near the Pearse resurgence has an underground campsite, have slept there a few times, also Bulmer cave up on Mt Owen has at least 3 campsites in it as its such a big cave network 60-70km of passages and still more being explored.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gary67

I don't know Nettlebed cave near the Pearse resurgence has an underground campsite, have slept there a few times, also Bulmer cave up on Mt Owen has at least 3 campsites in it as its such a big cave network 60-70km of passages and still more being explored.

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I have been to the Pearse valley resurgence its very close to where I used to live, one valley up in fact. You couldn't camp in because a river flows out of it.

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...phvWQJ8Sng3L-K

LL

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Originally Posted by prefect

I have been to the Pearse valley resurgence its very close to where I used to live, one valley up in fact. You couldn't camp in because a river flows out of it.

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Up the side stream 100m or so is the cave, the actual resurgence has been dived but one diver is still in there 20 years on. Cave divers are mad.

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

I heard someone say, just recently, that everyone knows and uses maori words daily. Well I do know some maori words - you can't help knowing some maori words as they are used by TVNZ and others fairly often - but I don't use maori words - English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them.

TVNZ announcers - Simon Dallow in particular - mumble on with some maori (I assume) phrases that I have no idea what they mean and I imagine that the majority of viewers would not know what they are mumbling about either.:groan: So why do they do it? Just to be PC? Let's speak English which is the language that the majority of NZers understand.

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Appreciate your point of view. NZ is a free country with free speech which I support. I’m therefore allowed to use my own free speech.

I’m myself a member of a minority group, Deaf people who use NZ Sign Language (NZSL). I think not many Deaf people can write as well as I can. I’ve even been called a leader of Deaf people.

Here’s a challenge for you my fellow Kiwi. Learn both basic NZSL and basic Maori, there’s an ideal time coming up, namely NZSL Week which runs from 10 to 16 May, you can go to a taster class in your town. Do you accept this challenge? Maori Language Week is 13-19 Sept.

Can you put yourself in and walk kilometres in the shoes of Maori people and Deaf people whose minority languages aren’t understood by the majority of Kiwis? Lots of members of both groups have experienced significant disparities.

Here’s something like putting yourself in the shoes of Maori, read the story “Poverty will cripple Māori if housing crisis is not addressed - iwi leader”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/30...ed--iwi-leader

Perhaps being more fluent in Maori will enable you to assist more with closing these disparities in the Stuff.co.nz story in partnership with Maori? And it’ll help you understand Simon Dallow’s Te Reo. Bravo on TVNZ for showing leadership with this use of Maori now.

Cheers,
Barry.

I want to quickly add a word to this question:
"in partnership with Maori?"

to "in equal partnership with Maori?".

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Originally Posted by barryk

Appreciate your point of view. NZ is a free country with free speech which I support. I’m therefore allowed to use my own free speech.

I’m myself a member of a minority group, Deaf people who use NZ Sign Language (NZSL). I think not many Deaf people can write as well as I can. I’ve even been called a leader of Deaf people.

Here’s a challenge for you my fellow Kiwi. Learn both basic NZSL and basic Maori, there’s an ideal time coming up, namely NZSL Week which runs from 10 to 16 May, you can go to a taster class in your town. Do you accept this challenge? Maori Language Week is 13-19 Sept.

Can you put yourself in and walk kilometres in the shoes of Maori people and Deaf people whose minority languages aren’t understood by the majority of Kiwis? Lots of members of both groups have experienced significant disparities.

Here’s something like putting yourself in the shoes of Maori, read the story “Poverty will cripple Māori if housing crisis is not addressed - iwi leader”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/30...ed--iwi-leader

Perhaps being more fluent in Maori will enable you to assist more with closing these disparities in the Stuff.co.nz story in partnership with Maori? And it’ll help you understand Simon Dallow’s Te Reo. Bravo on TVNZ for showing leadership with this use of Maori now.

Cheers,
Barry.

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The use of sign language is fully justified. It enables anyone with no other option to communicate with others and understand what is happening in their world. The same cannot be said about the Maori language.

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Originally Posted by gary67

Up the side stream 100m or so is the cave, the actual resurgence has been dived but one diver is still in there 20 years on. Cave divers are mad.

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Actually, I seem to recall that a group of Aussies retrieved Dave's body some years ago when they came across it during an exploration.
Edit: found an article that mentioned his body was retrieved in Jan 1997.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by user

Actually, I seem to recall that a group of Aussies retrieved Dave's body some years ago when they came across it during an exploration.
Edit: found an article that mentioned his body was retrieved in Jan 1997.

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Interesting as the other guy told me it was still in there. But I don't know that for sure.

I don't know NZ sign language but do know basic BSL

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Originally Posted by gary67

But I don't know that for sure.

I don't know NZ sign language but do know basic BSL

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Attachment 10868

Hmmmmm :confused:

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Originally Posted by B.M.

Attachment 10868

Hmmmmm :confused:

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Nope British sign language, which just like speech has many local interpretations and accents

I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.

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Originally Posted by Jayess64

A detail that has not been mentioned so far: Maori are not, and never were, "cavemen".

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It was a figure of speech. Anybody with any nous would have realised what I meant - uncivilised.:groan:

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Originally Posted by gary67

Nope British sign language, which just like speech has many local interpretations and accents

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Correct. So does NZSL which has regional dialects and signs. I’ve used BSL in the UK in 2002, BSL has taken me a long way as well as written and typed English and the then UK Disability Discrimination Act (now called the Equality Act). It enabled a crucial wall to come down enabling me to quickly find employment in London (by using the telephone network through the UK relay service) to make calls in my successful search in a then booming London when the pound was strong. How’s that for being treated equally to others? There was no relay service in NZ till around 2004 when the Helen Clark Labour Govt made it happen.

Cheers.

Information on the UK’s Equality Act 2010 is at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance.

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Originally Posted by Blue Druid

I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.

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Very well said. I quite agree. I'm certain you are correct. It is only the very few - usually the ones that make the most noise - that are proficient in maori, but the majority are not. And you may think that the white man is responsible for that, but there was a time when the maori elders told their youngsters not to speak maori because if they wanted to get ahead in a European world they would have to speak english.

And you are right. "The use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness." I think it is like whispering in front of someone - it's discourteous and impolite.

A few years ago I was a continuity announcer on Access Community Radio (Auckland) now known as Planet FM. It is a radio station where anyone can air a programme in their own languague for a small fee. While one programme was going to air there would often be a group of people in the lobby waiting to go on air and they would be talking among themselves. It was an unwritten rule that if they were in the same room as someone else (for example, myself) who did not speak their languague they were told - to be polite - to speak in english. Most complied, although there was the occasional person whose english was limited or non existent and an exception was made for them and they would usually tell me if that was the case in the way of an apology.

I am the same as you, Blue Druid, I am NZ European and I am at loss as to why my grandson is taught a language and culture that is not his own. When I was at school in the late 50s - early 60s, english was very important, so much so, that it was a compulsory subject and if you were sitting the top annual exam of the day - School Certificate - you had the choice of subjects that you could study and sit an exam on and english had to be one of those subjects. That's how important the education authorities thought that english was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Druid

I wonder how many Maori understand conversational Maori language? Comparatively few by my observation. I am of Scottish heritage and Scottish Gaelic is part of my culture. Should I perhaps foist my knowledge of The Gaelic upon innocent listeners who have no idea what I am talking about?

I am delighted if Maori converse in Te Reo if they can and choose to do so but the use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness.

I am not Maori and neither are my kids. Why does the education system insist on teaching my child a culture and language not his own while refusing to teach him his own culture and language? English is the only common denominator but proficiency in English is seemingly of no consequence in today's schools so long as you can jabber a few words of a language almost no one understands and which is not used in any other country in the world.

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I actually know from my 2002 visit to Scotland from London that Gaelic came to Scotland in its early history, maybe around the 4th or 5th century. My surname Kirkland is Scottish. My Victorian Scottish ancestors came on the ship ‘Maori’ in 1852 to Dunedin, Otago and settled there. I was told by Margaret Forrest in Lochlane, a member of the Kirkland family tree about the Gaelic language in Scotland. She, her partner, my cousin and I went to visit a whiskey factory in Crieff which we all enjoyed . I was very surprised to find that Lochlane is just like Otago terrain.

My own view is that TVNZ is showing bold and great leadership with Te Reo being used in the six pm news. Perhaps Roscoe might not like it but I do. I guess many others agree with Te Reo words being used in these bulletins and we might form a majority successfully pushing for bilingual bulletins and modifying rules about who can communicate and when. I think Te Reo needs to be much more visible on our TVs and NZSL too as NZ has become multicultural these days and NZ has two official languages and English is a de facto official language. I too learnt English in my school days and passed my School Cert exam in it and went as far as studying it at first year university level. Times change and people may need to catch up or risk being left behind.

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Originally Posted by barryk

Times change and people may need to catch up or risk being left behind.

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Seems the cavemen prevalent in this thread are happy to stay huddled around their dwindling colonial fire, shaking their fists and mumbling dead cliche's as the world passes them by.

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Originally Posted by barryk

My own view is that TVNZ is showing bold and great leadership with Te Reo being used in the six pm news. Perhaps Roscoe might not like it but I do.

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I can accept that you like it but do you understand it? I have a limited grasp of Te Reo but I seldom understand a word of My Dellow's cultural contribution. The key to communication is that the message being received and understood is the same as the message being transmitted. Anything less is the equivalent of liking a song to which you do not know the words.

And if we want the news to be truly multicultural, why not read it in Urdu, Chinese, Cambodian, Swahili, Tongan, Samoan and all the plethora of languages that are represented in our 21st century New Zealand. The majority will not understand a word, the advertisers will pull their support and we can all derive our amusement from watching back-to-back episodes of "The Chase."

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Originally Posted by fred_fish

Seems the cavemen prevalent in this thread are happy to stay huddled around their dwindling colonial fire, shaking their fists and mumbling dead cliche's as the world passes them by.

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We can kick the fire back into life.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te...-off-the-grass

I wonder if Jenny Nicholls is a member here....

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Originally Posted by the_bogan

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/te...-off-the-grass

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I read that article and, in particular, they mentioned macrons and showed the many words where macrons were used, but what it failed to say is what a macron does to the pronunciation in the word that it is used so macron or not, I'm still none the wiser as to the pronunciation of those words.:groan:

the Macron or overhead line thingy, basically makes the vowel more heavily pronounced/draws it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_bogan

the Macron or overhead line thingy, basically makes the vowel more heavily pronounced/draws it out.

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Thank you for that, Bogan. I've never heard anyone explain it before.:thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

Very well said. I quite agree. I'm certain you are correct. It is only the very few - usually the ones that make the most noise - that are proficient in maori, but the majority are not. And you may think that the white man is responsible for that, but there was a time when the maori elders told their youngsters not to speak maori because if they wanted to get ahead in a European world they would have to speak english.

And you are right. "The use of any language not understood by the listeners is plain rudeness." I think it is like whispering in front of someone - it's discourteous and impolite.

A few years ago I was a continuity announcer on Access Community Radio (Auckland) now known as Planet FM. It is a radio station where anyone can air a programme in their own languague for a small fee. While one programme was going to air there would often be a group of people in the lobby waiting to go on air and they would be talking among themselves. It was an unwritten rule that if they were in the same room as someone else (for example, myself) who did not speak their languague they were told - to be polite - to speak in english. Most complied, although there was the occasional person whose english was limited or non existent and an exception was made for them and they would usually tell me if that was the case in the way of an apology.

I am the same as you, Blue Druid, I am NZ European and I am at loss as to why my grandson is taught a language and culture that is not his own. When I was at school in the late 50s - early 60s, english was very important, so much so, that it was a compulsory subject and if you were sitting the top annual exam of the day - School Certificate - you had the choice of subjects that you could study and sit an exam on and english had to be one of those subjects. That's how important the education authorities thought that english was.

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It wasn't not to speak Maori, most said not to speak Maori in front of pakeha people because they would judge them for it. Which was true then and judging by the tone of your complaint might even be true today, whether you admit it or not. I'm speaking as one who was told the same thing.

Maori culture is part of New Zealand culture whether you like it or not. Until recently (30-40 years or so) New Zealand Europeans did their best to try and stamp it out and it was only a movement towards a more passionate approach in dealing with cultural issues that saw the government and relevant institutions make more of an effort to try and integrate Maori history, culture and such in to our identity as a country. I'm sorry you don't feel any connection to it, but there is absolutely no harm in learning a language and culture that is considered to being core to New Zealand identity, even if you don't like it.

Cave man language? He hamupaka o korero, you should be ashamed of yourself. Reading some of the responses in this thread make me even more ashamed to call myself a Kiwi. I'm not sure if you were just being an ass or were deliberately trying to stir the pot with a title like that, but consider the pot stirred. Whatever made you so miserable that you take either offense or can be annoyed just by hearing the language and having others learn about it, I wish you godspeed in dealing with because being such a hateful person isn't good for anyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

It was a figure of speech. Anybody with any nous would have realised what I meant - uncivilised.:groan:

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Yes, kind of the equivalent of saying "I don't objectify women, I just don't think they're really people".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

I read that article and, in particular, they mentioned macrons and showed the many words where macrons were used, but what it failed to say is what a macron does to the pronunciation in the word that it is used so macron or not, I'm still none the wiser as to the pronunciation of those words.:groan:

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Thankfully there's this wonderful invention called the internet, where, in the time of writing this message to complain about someone not serving you up every piece of information on a silver platter, you could search and learn it for yourself. But why take any initiative? Being a derogatory fool who complains about nothing seems much more constructive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Whatever made you so miserable that you take either offense or can be annoyed just by hearing the language and having others learn about it, I wish you godspeed in dealing with because being such a hateful person isn't good for anyone.

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I was not saying that I was miserable and no I did not take offence. What I was saying - if you had read my post - is that I object to TVNZ - Simon Dallow in particular - saying something in maori that few people understand. I said, "English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them."

I think that, before you comment on a post, you need to read it and absorb it otherwise you will be making a fool of yourself.:illogical

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

I was not saying that I was miserable and no I did not take offence. What I was saying - if you had read my post - is that I object to TVNZ - Simon Dallow in particular - saying something in maori that few people understand. I said, "English is my language and I have no use for maori words and have no inclination to use them."

I think that, before you comment on a post, you need to read it and absorb it otherwise you will be making a fool of yourself.:illogical

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You've said a hell of a lot more than that, much of which is antagonizing and disgusting.

But at the end of it all, you don't need to describe what is some of our mother tongue and everyone's national language, whether you recognize it or speak it or not, as a cave man language, or uncivilized.

Shame on you. You sound pretty damn miserable to me.

I have no problem with Maori retaining and using their culture and language if that is what they want to do.

What I object to is having it foisted on me as a non-Maori. If people want to communicate in a language that is incomprehensible to the rest of the world, so be it. But I have no aspirations to do so. If I must learn another language, it will be one that has far more global relevance.

There are two dedicated Maori TV channels which feature everything Maori for the benefit of Maori. Why does it have to be injected into supposedly English language channels when it is only understood by a tiny percentage of the population?

'And don't get me started on the Maori naming of Government departments in that language which is not understood by the majority of New Zealanders, regardless of race. Now I have no idea which department does what.

Blue Druid +1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Druid

I have no problem with Maori retaining and using their culture and language if that is what they want to do.

What I object to is having it foisted on me as a non-Maori. If people want to communicate in a language that is incomprehensible to the rest of the world, so be it. But I have no aspirations to do so. If I must learn another language, it will be one that has far more global relevance.

There are two dedicated Maori TV channels which feature everything Maori for the benefit of Maori. Why does it have to be injected into supposedly English language channels when it is only understood by a tiny percentage of the population?

'And don't get me started on the Maori naming of Government departments in that language which is not understood by the majority of New Zealanders, regardless of race. Now I have no idea which department does what.

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Yeah, let's all slam using one of our national languages. Or would it be better to revert to our third one, and have everything in sign language

Not slamming it. Just saying that it's use should be confined to those to whom it belongs.

And whose idea was it to make it a "National Language" anyway? I wasn't asked. Hands up anyone who was asked. I fail to understand how a language that is only understood by a small minority of the population can be called a "National Language."

Language has only one purpose – to communicate and a language that is not understood fails to do that.

Perhaps the next step will be to read the news in Swahili, Urdu or Arabic? And make them national languages too?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Druid

Not slamming it. Just saying that it's use should be confined to those to whom it belongs.

And whose idea was it to make it a "National Language" anyway? I wasn't asked. Hands up anyone who was asked. I fail to understand how a language that is only understood by a small minority of the population can be called a "National Language."

Language has only one purpose – to communicate and a language that is not understood fails to do that.

Perhaps the next step will be to read the news in Swahili, Urdu or Arabic? And make them national languages too?

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Thankfully surveys and polling have shown time and time again that more people are supportive of Maori being a national language, of compulsory study of the language in primary school and more.

You can embrace the change or ignore it and let the world pass you by. Personally I think being bilingual is a good thing, and that there’s nothing wrong with learning more about Maori culture and language as it becomes more and more apart of Kiwi’s identity and the way we distinguish ourselves on the world stage.

If you don’t want to of course you don’t have to and you have a right to your own opinion. Majority rules :)

All that really bugged me in this thread personally was the name Roscoe decided to give this thread, the pompous and sometimes racist attitude of some of our friends, and some pf the misinformation in the thread. The opinion about Simon was fine, even if I disagree with it.

Edit: one more point in regards to other languages, I think you’re being absolutely disingenuous when mentioning things like Urdu or Swahili- considering the history of our country Maori culture and language has a much stronger connection to the land as opposed to any others. While English is the common language, having Maori as an official language helps with healing the wrongs of the past and recognises that for a significant number of the population, it is an issue that is important to them and we recognise that historically both European and Maori cultures have played a significant part in forming this country.

Simon Dallow in particular - saying something in Maori that few people understand. Jeez Roscoe your time must be really expensive, it only takes him less than 2 seconds to say it, doesn't matter if you can understand it or not.

I suppose we have to assume that nothing of importance will be said in maori?

If something is important, it will first be read out in English as nearly everyone speaks that, then maori?

Ken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kenj

I suppose we have to assume that nothing of importance will be said in maori?

If something is important, it will first be read out in English as nearly everyone speaks that, then maori?

Ken

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It is New Zealand. Not England. Why not mix the language?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jebby

doesn't matter if you can understand it or not.

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So what's the point of it if it doesn't matter?

Baabits: "Personally I think being bilingual is a good thing" and I have nothing against being bilingual. I, too, think it is a good thing, but if you want to be bilingual. why not study a languague that a few more people speak, such as French or German? Have you ever been to France or Germany? If you have, you will realise just how useful knowing these languagues is, particularly in France where they are not too keen on you speaking English. At least a fair proportion of the world's population speak French and German (for example) rather than the very small amount of maori speaking people.

So I'm with you, Blue Druid, "Language has only one purpose – to communicate and a language that is not understood fails to do that." and it is understood by very few so it is not serving it's purpose.:illogical

So let's have the news in the languague that everyone in the country understands. Let's all speak English and leave the maori speakers to themselves - at least those few who understand it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

So what's the point of it if it doesn't matter?

Baabits: "Personally I think being bilingual is a good thing" and I have nothing against being bilingual. I, too, think it is a good thing, but if you want to be bilingual. why not study a languague that a few more people speak, such as French or German? Have you ever been to France or Germany? If you have, you will realise just how useful knowing these languagues is, particularly in France where they are not too keen on you speaking English. At least a fair proportion of the world's population speak French and German (for example) rather than the very small amount of maori speaking people.

So I'm with you, Blue Druid, "Language has only one purpose – to communicate and a language that is not understood fails to do that." and it is understood by very few so it is not serving it's purpose.:illogical

So let's have the news in the languague that everyone in the country understands. Let's all speak English and leave the maori speakers to themselves - at least those few who understand it.

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Why? Because Maori, whether it is to you or not, is something a majority of New Zealanders support expansion of in our society. Te Puni Kokiri does surveys on this, and I'm sorry but you and your disdain for having to listen to a few words in what you obviously feel is a language beneath you (why the hell else would you call it cave man language, or uncivilized, if you were joking you're an ass and if you're not joking then you need help) is in the minority. A majority of non-Maori people surveyed support

-"Some Māori language education should be compulsory in schools for all children" (64%)
- believe that "The Government should encourage the use of Māori in everyday situations such as in the home or at the marae" (64%)
- believe that "It is only right that the signage is in both Māori and English" (59%)
- believe that "The Government’s support of Māori radio stations is a good thing (85%)

and a bunch more.

These are also stats that have trended upwards over time, so there's no doubt that support for the language will continue to grow.

The news is in English. Simon literally only says a few Maori phrases and it pisses you off, so I think you're being absolutely unreasonable. My knee jerk reaction is that you're a racist hack who just doesn't want to hear Maori, but I'll give you more credit than that. Either way you're blowing what really isn't a major issue way out of proportion, and insulting those of us who it is important to while you're at it. And before you give me the whole read my post it's only about Simon crap, you can just stop right there. The title of this thread and then your further attempt to explain it say more about you as a person than you could ever justify.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Why? Because Maori, whether it is to you or not, is something a majority of New Zealanders support expansion of in our society. Te Puni Kokiri does surveys on this, and I'm sorry but you and your disdain for having to listen to a few words in what you obviously feel is a language beneath you (why the hell else would you call it cave man language, or uncivilized, if you were joking you're an ass and if you're not joking then you need help) is in the minority. A majority of non-Maori people surveyed support

-"Some Māori language education should be compulsory in schools for all children" (64%)
- believe that "The Government should encourage the use of Māori in everyday situations such as in the home or at the marae" (64%)
- believe that "It is only right that the signage is in both Māori and English" (59%)
- believe that "The Government’s support of Māori radio stations is a good thing (85%)

and a bunch more.

These are also stats that have trended upwards over time, so there's no doubt that support for the language will continue to grow.

The news is in English. Simon literally only says a few Maori phrases and it pisses you off, so I think you're being absolutely unreasonable. My knee jerk reaction is that you're a racist hack who just doesn't want to hear Maori, but I'll give you more credit than that. Either way you're blowing what really isn't a major issue way out of proportion, and insulting those of us who it is important to while you're at it. And before you give me the whole read my post it's only about Simon crap, you can just stop right there. The title of this thread and then your further attempt to explain it say more about you as a person than you could ever justify.

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If you are going to make a claim that the majority are in support of anything you have to give a reference to the survey that says that including who was surveyed and by who. Otherwise it looks like you are making it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Why? Because Maori, whether it is to you or not, is something a majority of New Zealanders support expansion of in our society.

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Utter crap. Granted I've only lived here for 55 years, but I've never seen any evidence of that.

However, I don't have evidence apart from residency to support my claim. What you got to support yours bro? If you live 'too far away' there's a good chance you might not know squat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CliveM

If you are going to make a claim that the majority are in support of anything you have to give a reference to the survey that says that including who was surveyed and by who. Otherwise it looks like you are making it up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by allblack

Utter crap. Granted I've only lived here for 55 years, but I've never seen any evidence of that.

However, I don't have evidence apart from residency to support my claim. What you got to support yours bro? If you live 'too far away' there's a good chance you might not know squat.

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Jesus I literally said Te Puni Kokiri did surveys on this. How hard is it to Google Te Puni Kokiri Survey Maori Language? Just like macrons one wouldn't take initiative because it's easier just to say someone is making **** up when the facts don't agree with you.

Here it is on a silver platter:

https://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/a-matou-m...tudes/online/5

Take that good chance that I don't know squat and shove it, I actually have facts to support my opinion bro, because I actually take the time to learn about things before I start spouting off about them, and don't base my opinions on a warped world view based on 55 years in the 'nui.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Jesus I literally said Te Puni Kokiri did surveys on this

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bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahaha ....

... and there's your credibility gone.

TPK "facts" for crissakes???

I'm bored with you now.

ps: 6 years in the 'Nui. But yeah, sometimes that's how life pans out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allblack

bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahaha bahahahahahahahahahabahahahahahahahahahabahahahaha hahahahaha ....

... and there's your credibility gone.

TPK "facts" for crissakes???

I'm bored with you now.

ps: 6 years in the 'Nui. But yeah, sometimes that's how life pans out.

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Bored with me? That's a good cop out, if your only retort is to is to laugh like a child and not present any counter evidence besides your warped world view and say boohoo TPK then... I can see why you would want to end there. Sweet as bro.

The rest of us will keep moving forward, I do hope you'll join us one day, even if there's fat chance of that happening.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Bored with me? That's a good cop out, if your only retort is to is to laugh like a child and not present any counter evidence besides your warped world view and say boohoo TPK then... I can see why you would want to end there. Sweet as bro.

The rest of us will keep moving forward, I do hope you'll join us one day, even if there's fat chance of that happening.

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It's a bit sad that this thread has sunk to trading insults. Why can't you two discuss the topic in a civilised manner?

And all I was saying that I object to having maori on TVNZ forced on me when I have no idea what they are saying and I have absolutely no interest in the maori languague, as I suspect the majority of New Zealanders do not understand it either.

And I don't think that, in your unsubstantiated surveys, 64% and 59% are a majority and although 85% is coming close, that is still not a majority. But that's still not the point. I'm not saying that there is no support for the maori languague - that may or not be true - what I am saying, and I reiterate, that I have no interest in the languague or anything maori. I am NZ European and English is my languague. If I want to become bilingual I will learn a useful languague such as a European tongue that a majority of the world, not just little New Zealand, speak and understand. I know more French and German than I do maori and don't feel, as some in this thread have said, that because I live in New Zealand I should learn some maori. What for? It's of no use to me whatsoever. So bonjour and guten tag to you all.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roscoe

It's a bit sad that this thread has sunk to trading insults. Why can't you two discuss the topic in a civilised manner?

And all I was saying that I object to having maori on TVNZ forced on me when I have no idea what they are saying and I have absolutely no interest in the maori languague, as I suspect the majority of New Zealanders do not understand it either.

And I don't think that, in your unsubstantiated surveys, 64% and 59% are a majority and although 85% is coming close, that is still not a majority. But that's still not the point. I'm not saying that there is no support for the maori languague - that may or not be true - what I am saying, and I reiterate, that I have no interest in the languague or anything maori. I am NZ European and English is my languague. If I want to become bilingual I will learn a useful languague such as a European tongue that a majority of the world, not just little New Zealand, speak and understand. I know more French and German than I do maori and don't feel, as some in this thread have said, that because I live in New Zealand I should learn some maori. What for? It's of no use to me whatsoever. So bonjour and guten tag to you all.:)

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Hey, I give as good as I get. You can't deal with trolls in life without doing so, which is why I responded to allblack in the way I did. As for you, you're a hypocrite. You literally called this thread, my mother tongue, and one of our national languages a caveman language and then tried to justify it by saying what you meant was uncivilized. You might not think of it as a big deal but it is to me and obviously many others in the thread. So I stand by calling you everything I did.

The meaning of a majority is literally the greater number. Anything over 50% is a majority, so no you're wrong, and yes 64% and 59% are a majority. We elect our governments this way, laws come in to affect this way, whoever crosses that threshold has the majority. The reason that it's important is because if a higher number support more Maori language in society then it's not far fetched to say that TVNZ and Simon Dallow are just following what the majority of the country want to see in society. They're not my unsubstantiated surveys, it's a government department collecting data, and similar studies by multiple organizations show similar results.

You are New Zealand European, and that makes you a New Zealander. Maori is one of our national languages. You don't have to care about Maori at all, but you also sure as hell don't have to spit on it (again, the cave man thing, and I won't stop beating on it because you don't even have the decency to apologize for it). If you want to learn French or German then go ahead, but whining like a child that you don't want to hear Maori words when it's literally complaining either for the sake of complaining, or just because you don't like change, is immature and I would hope beyond you, though I'm not so sure now. Someone else put it best:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jayess64

The title of your post suggests that one way to solve your problem might be to re-calibrate the way you see the world and how other people live.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_bogan

It is New Zealand. Not England. Why not mix the language?

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I am sort of thinking of fire, flood, tsunami or anything where it is necessary to inform all of the population clearly so all understand.

Ken:thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baabits

Hey, I give as good as I get. You can't deal with trolls in life without doing so, which is why I responded to allblack in the way I did. As for you, you're a hypocrite. You literally called this thread, my mother tongue, and one of our national languages a caveman language and then tried to justify it by saying what you meant was uncivilized. You might not think of it as a big deal but it is to me and obviously many others in the thread. So I stand by calling you everything I did.

The meaning of a majority is literally the greater number. Anything over 50% is a majority, so no you're wrong, and yes 64% and 59% are a majority. We elect our governments this way, laws come in to affect this way, whoever crosses that threshold has the majority. The reason that it's important is because if a higher number support more Maori language in society then it's not far fetched to say that TVNZ and Simon Dallow are just following what the majority of the country want to see in society. They're not my unsubstantiated surveys, it's a government department collecting data, and similar studies by multiple organizations show similar results.

You are New Zealand European, and that makes you a New Zealander. Maori is one of our national languages. You don't have to care about Maori at all, but you also sure as hell don't have to spit on it (again, the cave man thing, and I won't stop beating on it because you don't even have the decency to apologize for it). If you want to learn French or German then go ahead, but whining like a child that you don't want to hear Maori words when it's literally complaining either for the sake of complaining, or just because you don't like change, is immature and I would hope beyond you, though I'm not so sure now. Someone else put it best:

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So long as an option agrees with yours that is ok? Anything else is wrong, racist or childish! I do not think so. Have a good read back of your posts you are at least as guilty of bias as anyone else in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CliveM

So long as an option agrees with yours that is ok? Anything else is wrong, racist or childish! I do not think so. Have a good read back of your posts you are at least as guilty of bias as anyone else in this thread.

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An opinion? I'm the only one who brought statistics to the table, to prove that the winds are changing out there. It's not bias, which is predominately considered to be unfair prejudice, but having to read incorrect information, insults to my mother tongue and straw man arguments by a bunch of people who are resistant to change, intolerant and are literally complaining about having to listen to what must total less than half a minute of another language in an hour long program in an initiative that, judging by the provided statistics, the majority of the country would support.

Feel free to hold on to your opinions, I'm happy to die on a hill for mine. The ill will wouldn't exist if the thread was entitled something far more appropriate and then tried to be justified by someone calling my language uncivilized. The times are a changing, and the world will leave you behind, I hope you join the majority of us, but if not then godspeed to you.

I'm done arguing this any further. Anything else would just be running round in circles. Have a great day/life.

Thank Christ for that had enough of these apologists for the blacks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prefect

Thank Christ for that had enough of these apologists for the blacks.

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I, too, am glad to get rid of him. He kept going on that I was against maori and their languague, but what I was saying that I object to having people like Simon Dallow forcing the languague on me and the rest of NZ when the majority of NZ does not understand what he is saying - and he's not the only one. I could go on but I think that the topic has just about been covered completely and I have got my point across.