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forrest44
05-04-2009, 06:27 PM
Where can I get hydrochlorc acid?

Went to Bunnings Wharehouse, they said since it's a dangerous chemical you need to go to a registered chemist or similar.
Went to a spa pool shop, they didn't have any
Went to an actual chemist, they didn't have any and had no idea where to get it
And yes, I know how dangerous it is

Any ideas?
I'm in Christchurch

somebody
05-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Mitre 10 Mega used to sell it - not sure if they still do. It was sold under a different name though, in the paint section.

Edit: It's called "Spirit of Salts", and was sold (about 3 years ago anyway) in the same area where turps/meths etc. is sold.

forrest44
05-04-2009, 06:35 PM
Does anyone else know if they still sell it?

forrest44
05-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Aha

http://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/paint_and_decorating/paint_tools_and_accessories/andrew_spirits_of_salts_2_litre_262152.cfm

Does anyone know where you can get it in slightly smaller quantities or cheaper prices?
I don't exactly want to pay $15/litre...

Ofthesea
05-04-2009, 06:44 PM
How about your local car battery shop? Just a guess.

roddy_boy
05-04-2009, 06:52 PM
That'd be sulphuric wouldn't it?

Sweep
05-04-2009, 06:59 PM
Spirits of salt (I thought) is in fact Sulphuric acid rather than Hydrochloric acid.

Sulphuric acid is found in car batteries. H2SO4
Hydrochloric acid. HCL
Nitric acid. H2NO3.


Will check now and get back.

roddy_boy
05-04-2009, 07:01 PM
Hydrochloric is HCl not HCL.

robsonde
05-04-2009, 07:15 PM
Where can I get hydrochlorc acid?

Went to Bunnings Wharehouse, they said since it's a dangerous chemical you need to go to a registered chemist or similar.
Went to a spa pool shop, they didn't have any
Went to an actual chemist, they didn't have any and had no idea where to get it
And yes, I know how dangerous it is

Any ideas?
I'm in Christchurch

can we ask what you need it for??

somebody
05-04-2009, 07:27 PM
Spirits of salt (I thought) is in fact Sulphuric acid rather than Hydrochloric acid.

Sulphuric acid is found in car batteries. H2SO4
Hydrochloric acid. HCL
Nitric acid. H2NO3.


Will check now and get back.

I'm certain it was HCl - it was a visit to Wikipedia (while not an authoritative source) which sparked my memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

Sweep
05-04-2009, 07:35 PM
Hydrochloric is HCl not HCL.

Thank you for that. I never would have known apart from you correcting me.

Maybe I should also use superscripts or Subscripts.

Do you agree that Spirits of salt is NOT Hydrochloric acid?

"Where can I get hydrochlorc acid?" From the original poster it would seem to suggest a short one line answer. Like what is hydrochlorc acid?

kenj
05-04-2009, 07:36 PM
can we ask what you need it for??

From memory, the suppliers will be canny as I think it is used in the manufacture of "P"

I seem to remember a case of a dairy owner supplying it to gangs in Northland or something like that?

Ken

radium
05-04-2009, 07:39 PM
Everyone well a lot of people seem to call it HCL instead of HCI. I seen this dicussion in a chemical forum.

Used in the manufacure of MA - Meth, other drug manufacuring that requires an acid base extraction or percipitation of the HCI salt and it also has a variety of other "legal uses"

Easily obtainable from Mitre 10 and Place Makers, It's not Lab grade but does the job, in USA they call it Muratic acid, but here we call it Spirit of Salts ask for that, say you want to clean some concrete if they ask, or tell them what you really want if for if its for legal use. :thumbs:

PaulD
05-04-2009, 07:44 PM
It's most commonly used for cleaning cement splashes, if Mitre10 have it Bunnings are just inventing a reason why they don't. Also used for pH control in pools.

Sweep
05-04-2009, 07:45 PM
I'm certain it was HCl - it was a visit to Wikipedia (while not an authoritative source) which sparked my memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

Agreed but look up Vitriol and Common Salt. The formula for common salt is NaCl otherwise known as Sodium Chloride. Have you a chemical formula for Vitriol?

somebody
05-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Agreed but look up Vitriol and Common Salt. The formula for common salt is NaCl otherwise known as Sodium Chloride. Have you a chemical formula for Vitriol?

To be completely honest with you, I don't care what the chemical formula of Vitriol is - I posted in this thread with the intention of helping the original poster find something he/she was looking for.

KenESmith
05-04-2009, 08:07 PM
Last time I bought it NZ in it was from Placemakers.
I buy it in Oz as liquid PH reducer from our local swinmming pool suppolies outlet- it is reasonably concentrated and chemically pure.

radium
05-04-2009, 08:11 PM
chemically pure.

You would need to buy Lab or reagent grade to get any where close to pure

forrest44
05-04-2009, 08:32 PM
can we ask what you need it for??

I'm going to have a go at etching some PCBs. To be more exact, a board to program a PIC16F628A microcontroller, and later, a Xilinx Sparten IIE FPGA.

I saw in the photo of the Spirit of Salts on the Mitre 10 website it is hydrochloric acid.

If I recall correctly from chemistry at school, the name is HCl. (H - C - small L., not H - C - I)

Terry Porritt
05-04-2009, 08:34 PM
Not many engineer/plumber types here......:thumbs: Spirits of Salts or hydrochloric acid, HCl, note radium I didn't write HCI :) as sold in hardware shops, or, as they were called in the olden days 'drysalters' was/is used as a soldering flux.

For example if you wanted to solder a lead flashing onto galvanised roofing iron you could use spirits of salts. A commercial acidic soldering flux like 'Duzall' will contain hydrochloric acid, zinc chloride and ammonium chloride.
It will enable soldering of metals that resin cored solder wont touch.

You dont use hydrochloric acid in electrical soldering.

You would only be able to get concentrated 'fuming' HCl from a chemical suppliers, the stuff you may be able to get from a hardware shop will be diluted.

Edit: I see you want to etch pcbs, then the stuff to use is Ferric Chloride, Dick Smith used to, may still sell it. Otherwise beg some from a pcb manufacturer.

Edit again: It seems that neither Jaycar or DSE stock ferric chloride, electronic hobbying is in its death throws....... :(


Edit yet again: you need to rephrase the question "where can I buy Ferric Chloride ?" :)
you dont want to use hydrochloric acid for pcbs.

somebody
05-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Ferric Chloride: http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/en/product/N5653

Since you're doing PCBs, have you seen this article: http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

Terry Porritt
05-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Ferric Chloride: http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/en/product/N5653

Since you're doing PCBs, have you seen this article: http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

I saw that in DSE, it is end of line and not available everywhere, it is also an absolute rip off price.

somebody
05-04-2009, 08:54 PM
I saw that in DSE, it is end of line and not available everywhere, it is also an absolute rip off price.

Hmm... How about Ammonium Persulfate? I can't say I've ever used it before: http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/shop/product-SA0055.html

Terry Porritt
05-04-2009, 08:59 PM
Hmm... How about Ammonium Persulfate? I can't say I've ever used it before: http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/shop/product-SA0055.html

That will do the job, I also just found out that Jaycar sell it too, catalogue number NC4254, 400 gm makes up into 1.5 litres, cost $15.90, so a bit cheaper from surplustronics :)

Its much cleaner to use than ferric chloride, but I dont think it goes so far.

R2x1
05-04-2009, 08:59 PM
Maybe Ammonium Persulphate - from Jaycar Cat #NC-4254 or other suppliers. Ferric Chloride seems out of fashion lately. Hydrochloric acid, if you must have it can be obtained by sticking your finger down your throat, it is the fizzy mix in your digestive juices. Concentrating it may be a problem.

;)

robsonde
05-04-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm going to have a go at etching some PCBs. To be more exact, a board to program a PIC16F628A microcontroller, and later, a Xilinx Sparten IIE FPGA.

I saw in the photo of the Spirit of Salts on the Mitre 10 website it is hydrochloric acid.

If I recall correctly from chemistry at school, the name is HCl. (H - C - small L., not H - C - I)

may i recommend using ferric chloride??

forrest44
05-04-2009, 09:34 PM
I'm looking at following this guide.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/

thoughts?
Will ammonium persulphate last as long?

forrest44
05-04-2009, 09:37 PM
From http://deadpopstar.com/projects/electronics/pcb/index.htm
"Etchant. The stuff of choice seems to be ferric chloride. I hate it, use ammonium persulfate, it comes in crystal form. It's odorless, not very toxic, but it needs to be heated, and can't be reused like ferric chloride."

Hydrogen peroxide + hydrochloric acid seems to be reusable many times.

Sweep
05-04-2009, 10:12 PM
To be completely honest with you, I don't care what the chemical formula of Vitriol is - I posted in this thread with the intention of helping the original poster find something he/she was looking for.

Agreed once more.

"Where can I get hydrochlorc acid?"

Where do you get that acid from?

Also when I posted I had no idea what purity was wanted and also why the HCl was going to be used.

Billy T
05-04-2009, 10:27 PM
Have you a chemical formula for Vitriol? Vitriol is the archaic/historic name for sulphuric acid (H2SO4).

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Trev
05-04-2009, 11:57 PM
And suphuric acid is made from sulphur.
:)

roddy_boy
06-04-2009, 12:00 AM
What an insightful post.

Hydrochloric acid is made from hydrochlor.

R2x1
06-04-2009, 12:05 AM
And foghorns are made from ? ?

Trev
06-04-2009, 12:07 AM
Fog.
:)

johcar
06-04-2009, 12:15 AM
And baby oil?

Agent_24
06-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Johnny was a chemist
But Johnny is no more
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4

I've always used Ferric Chloride for PCB etching

Renmoo
06-04-2009, 08:38 PM
Everyone well a lot of people seem to call it HCL instead of HCI. I seen this dicussion in a chemical forum.
I am a member of chemical forums too. In print, we write "HCl" rather than "HCL" because the latter implies three different elements being chemically merged and available. However, when it comes to pronunciation, we say "Age See Ale" rather than "Age See Ai".

Ken: And yeah, chemically pure implies HCl being 32 mol / L! As part of my research during the summer, at most I have dealt with 10 mol / L HCl :p

Sweep: Nitric Acid = HNO_3 rather than H_2NO_3, just a friendly pointer.

Agent_24: Yup, I've seen that somewhere on deviantart ;)

Cheers :)

Trev
07-04-2009, 12:14 AM
Try getting some hydrochloric acid from a industrial chemical supplier. I use to work for one over 20 years ago and use to get all the differant acids in bulk 200L drums or bigger, and repackage it in smaller containers.
:)

ubergeek85
07-04-2009, 10:45 AM
From memory, the suppliers will be canny as I think it is used in the manufacture of "P"

I seem to remember a case of a dairy owner supplying it to gangs in Northland or something like that?

Ken

I think that was an owner of a supervalue selling Methylated spirits to people when he knew they were going to use it to make P.

It seems strange to me as I don't know where it comes into the process for making P (yes, I do know the chemical principle for making it), but then again with all the restictions in place, making the easy way impossible, they have to resort to some pretty creative science.

Agent_24: Wasn't that a thinkgeek shirt?

Sweep
07-04-2009, 11:49 AM
I am a member of chemical forums too. In print, we write "HCl" rather than "HCL" because the latter implies three different elements being chemically merged and available. However, when it comes to pronunciation, we say "Age See Ale" rather than "Age See Ai".

Ken: And yeah, chemically pure implies HCl being 32 mol / L! As part of my research during the summer, at most I have dealt with 10 mol / L HCl :p

Sweep: Nitric Acid = HNO_3 rather than H_2NO_3, just a friendly pointer.

Agent_24: Yup, I've seen that somewhere on deviantart ;)

Cheers :)

Thanks for that. It has been over 50 years since I attended a chemistry class. I guess my memory must be failing.

Terry Porritt
07-04-2009, 01:06 PM
I am a member of chemical forums too. In print, we write "HCl" rather than "HCL" because the latter implies three different elements being chemically merged and available. However, when it comes to pronunciation, we say "Age See Ale" rather than "Age See Ai".

Ken: And yeah, chemically pure implies HCl being 32 mol / L! As part of my research during the summer, at most I have dealt with 10 mol / L HCl :p

Sweep: Nitric Acid = HNO_3 rather than H_2NO_3, just a friendly pointer.

Agent_24: Yup, I've seen that somewhere on deviantart ;)

Cheers :)


ROFL me Jamus, you must live in a different world where they speak a different form of English, that isn't even New Zild, it may be Chinglish I suppose, or Pidgin.................


HCl is pronounced aitch-see-ell......and the 'ell' is not pronounced 'ill'.

Sweep
07-04-2009, 01:20 PM
ROFL me Jamus, you must live in a different world where they speak a different form of English, that isn't even New Zild, it may be Chinglish I suppose, or Pidgin.................


HCl is pronounced aitch-see-ell......and the 'ell' is not pronounced 'ill'.

Perhaps I will get some feesh and cheeps or is that fush and chups tonight?
Maybe I will opt for snags and cheeps or alternatively fish and chips.

I would know what I wanted but I am not sure whether what I ordered is what I will get. :rolleyes:

Agent_24
07-04-2009, 02:40 PM
Agent_24: Wasn't that a thinkgeek shirt?

Probably is a lot of things.. I can't remember where I saw it

Renmoo
07-04-2009, 06:13 PM
ROFL me Jamus, you must live in a different world where they speak a different form of English, that isn't even New Zild, it may be Chinglish I suppose, or Pidgin.................


HCl is pronounced aitch-see-ell......and the 'ell' is not pronounced 'ill'.
Whatever, but you get the gist :)

My English is not perfect, as most people know.

P.S. I haven't been having ale prior to making the previous post :p

R2x1
08-04-2009, 04:16 PM
ROFL me Jamus, you must live in a different world where they speak a different form of English, that isn't even New Zild, it may be Chinglish I suppose, or Pidgin.................


HCl is pronounced aitch-see-ell......and the 'ell' is not pronounced 'ill'.

Lucas is pronounced as "Lights u can almost see". :spam

Terry Porritt
08-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Lucas is pronounced as "Lights u can almost see". :spam

Be that as it may :rolleyes: The 1000cc 100mph daylight cruising speed Vincent was originally fitted with a 50 watt Miller dynamo and a 24/24 watt headlight bulb in a Miller headlamp that didn't have a real lens pattern.

This gave a dim glim, and allowed a speed of around 30mph possibly to be sustained during the hours of darkness.

By fitting a 60 watt Lucas dyno and 36 watt bulb in a P700 Lucas headlamp darkness speeds up to 50 or even 60mph could be achieved.

By fitting a 100 watt special Lucas dyno as supplied to the police, and a 48 watt (or was it a 56 watt?) bulb as fitted to 6v Volkswagons, then speeds up to around 60/70mph could be sustained at night.:clap

R2x1
08-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Ah - the magic Lucas lights - winner of the King's award to Industry for services to the country promoting the blackout.
A Lucas dynamo - any size - for motorcycles normally did not last a great deal longer than a tank of gas. (Not long on a Vincent.)
However, the matching Lucas magneto was usually conveniently ready for repair/exchange at about the same time.
Pull into a service station, order a meal, get a fill of gas, another quart or two of oil, fresh mag and dynamo and it should be ready when you finish your lunch. Repeat in 150 miles. (More often if you bravely try to use the lights of course.)