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View Full Version : New Game machine, not a tight budget...



Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 01:58 PM
Hi,
Need a little head start with choosing a new pc for gaming/graphics...

Looking at this graphics card: Asus EN9800GTX+/HTDI/512M
(opinions please, upgrading from my profile one)
I can't work out the name game with the cards on offer at the moment...

I'd like suggestions on good mobo and cpu to get.
Looking at Core2 Duo E8400 3GHZ (random choice) $400
but am wondering about a new Core i7 920 $670
(which mobo for either....)

Any suggestions either way?
Or which selections to make first at least?

Thanks !

GameJunkie
16-12-2008, 02:14 PM
what's your PSU?

Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Oh, this will be a fully fresh build.
Currently an Enermax 500W ca. something....
But I'll be giving my old rig to my Grandma :)

stormdragon
16-12-2008, 02:37 PM
Bit of a nice rig for a Grandma isn't it? :)

Got a budget for this build? Edit: Just reread the thread title!

What res are you planning to game at?

Speedy Gonzales
16-12-2008, 02:50 PM
Well, if you've got money to burn, you could get this (http://www.edencomputers.co.nz/pk.aspx?1114)

This (http://www.xpcomputers.co.nz/views.asp?hw_id=4678)

stormdragon
16-12-2008, 03:06 PM
Well, if you've got money to burn, you could get this (http://www.edencomputers.co.nz/pk.aspx?1114)

This (http://www.xpcomputers.co.nz/views.asp?hw_id=4678)

Or if you really want want to burn some money! (http://www.ifocus.co.nz/Computer+Systems/Performance+PC+S770i.html)

pctek
16-12-2008, 03:34 PM
Looking at this graphics card: Asus EN9800GTX+/HTDI/512M
I can't work out the name game with the cards on offer at the moment...

Looking at Core2 Duo E8400 3GHZ (random choice) $400
but am wondering about a new Core i7 920 $670


Core Duo E8500 if you're going to do Dual core.

I7 is nice but the motherboard (and triple ram combos) are also expensive.
If you can afford it then:

Asus P6T Deluxe
Core i7 920 2.66 GHz Socket 1366 (8MB L3 Cache)
Corsair 3x2Gb DDR3-1333 XMS C9 i7 *9-9-9-24 *XMS
ASUS HD 4870x2

Graphics: (See www.tomshardware.com for VGA charts)
9800GTX
9800GX2
GTX260
GTX280

or

HD4850
HD48050X2
HD4870
HD4870x2

SolMiester
16-12-2008, 03:42 PM
What LCD resolution are you going to run?

I will prpbaly get grief from the ATi supporters, however I wouldnt buy a Multi GPU solution if my life depended on it.....especially ATi, due to there pathetic 2 monthly driver trunk fixes...at least with NV you can create your own profile.

So, ATi 4870 or NV260GTX\216 are about the best solutions, 280 is just too expensive and not that much faster than the 260.

davidmmac
16-12-2008, 04:03 PM
Or if you really want want to burn some money! (http://www.ifocus.co.nz/Computer+Systems/Performance+PC+S770i.html)

Thats a beast!

pctek
16-12-2008, 04:07 PM
I will prpbaly get grief from the ATi supporters, however I wouldnt buy a Multi GPU solution if my life depended on it.....especially ATi, due to there pathetic 2 monthly driver trunk fixes...at least with NV you can create your own profile.



Oh come on. I don't have issues with my dual GPU ATI.
HAven't changed the driver since I bought it.

My son, however, has had lots of hassles with drivers for his Nvidia card and GTAIV.

I love my 4870x2..................:clap

SolMiester
16-12-2008, 04:19 PM
Oh come on. I don't have issues with my dual GPU ATI.
HAven't changed the driver since I bought it.

My son, however, has had lots of hassles with drivers for his Nvidia card and GTAIV.

I love my 4870x2..................:clap

So you dont get new games then...! and I hardly think a 19" LCD is going to stress a X2..LOL

ATi driver release issue's and their driver trunks are well documented PCT
have a read. Derek from Anandtech wrote an article on it. (just trying to find the link for you...)

Is your sons card multi GPU?, that is the issue.....I have no idea about bugs in the NV drivers?, has he upgraded to big bang 180's?

SolMiester
16-12-2008, 05:10 PM
In actual fact PCT, @ 19" resolutions, 1 of your gpu's on your x2 could fail, and you wouldnt even notice!...LOL. When are you going to get a monitor for it?

Blam
16-12-2008, 05:12 PM
2x4870 is overkill, you'll need to play games at 2500x1900 resolution to take advantage of all that power, 2x4850 or 1x4850 and 1x4870 crossfire X would be sufficient.

For the PSU definitely a Corsair, modular if you want.

Game's and apps will prob start taking advantage of multi-cores so going quad will prob future proof your PC.

Q6600 GO would be sufficient, and it seems the Xeon X3220 is good for OC'ing too.

Hard drive>Seagate, RAID if you want speed, Velociraptor or SSD if you want to burn some cash.

For the case I recommend the Antec 900 or 1200, great cases, large fan

Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 06:48 PM
Thanks for all replies thus far.
Budget is around 4-5k usually.

Graphics card will likely be the Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 mentioned above.

So onto the next step...most appropriate mobo and cpu for it?
I'll start searching but if you know a good answer chime in.

(I run 2 22" monitors currently, but is it possible to run 3 with one of these vid cards? Im using ultramon to manage the 2 but no idea if 3 is possible?
Will be running raid 0 again with whatever drives I get, but if things have changed and I'm better off with just one hard drive, speak up)

memphis
16-12-2008, 06:49 PM
Core i7 PC
1. OS: 64 bit
2. DVDRW x 2
3. Ram: 8 gig of ddr3 ram
4. CPU: Core i7 cpu
5. MB: Gigabyte GA-EX58-Extreme Intel X58 ATX
6. GPU: NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX260 CORE 216 896MB DDR3 PCI-E or ATI RADEON HD4870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E DUAL DVI / TV-OUT
7. HD:1000GB 7200RPM 32mb cache x 4 raid them if you want to as well to make them faster if you need too that is.
8. LCD: 24"
9. PSU:750/1000 watt modular Corsair
10. Case:Personal preference but you will need a bigish one to fit the graphics cards in because they are BIG ones,and the case HAS TO HAVE REALLY GOOD COOLING because of the graphics cards and everything else as well.

LGA775 setup same as above but with these:
CPU:Q6600 GO,Q6700,Xeon X3220.
Ram:4/8 gig of ddr2 depending on the MB.
MB:
GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 LGA775 DDR2-1200

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R INTEL P45 LGA775 DDR2 PCI-E

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P INTEL P45 LGA775 DDR2 PCI-E

Yes I like and trust the Gigabyte motherboards!!!:cool:

Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Core i7 PC
1. OS: 64 bit
2. DVDRW x 2
3. Ram: 8 gig of ddr3 ram
.......

Oh that's what Im looking for!
Thank you Memphis. I'll use your info and do some self searchin'
Excellent work...
I'm probably avoiding the 64 bit as I'm worried of software not workin or being available...
Hopefully none of your recommendations are affected by me choosing a 32bit system (ill take a look)

R.M.
16-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Oh, this will be a fully fresh build.
Currently an Enermax 500W ca. something....
But I'll be giving my old rig to my Grandma :)

Depends on the Grandma... Good on you!

I'm one and I need and use a good setup for photography. :)

Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Depends on the Grandma... Good on you!

I'm one and I need and use a good setup for photography. :)

:thumbs:

memphis
16-12-2008, 07:15 PM
QUOTE=Mcpisik;Oh that's what Im looking for!
Thank you Memphis. I'll use your info and do some self searchin'
Excellent work...
I'm probably avoiding the 64 bit as I'm worried of software not workin or being available...
Hopefully none of your recommendations are affected by me choosing a 32bit system (ill take a look)

Sweet as,I am happy to help out!!!:D:thumbs:

Ok with a 32 bit OS you will have to get less ram thats all: 2 x 2 gig ram sticks. - (the 32 bit OS will only see 3.5 or 3.7 of that and not 4 gig,but it will still work anyway,all the other stuff is cool for a 32 bit OS).;):D:thumbs:

Speedy Gonzales
16-12-2008, 07:24 PM
Its not software you have to worry about with 64 bit, its the drivers

No drivers, it wont work (you cant use 32 bit drivers)

Altho, I know a few programs that wont work with 64 bit (ie: Trojan remover, and Malwarebytes I think (this will load but you cant use the protection module in it).

But you wont get this anyway, unless you register it

You've probably got more chance of something working with Vista 64 bit, than XP Pro 64 bit

I would use 64 bit myself, (XP Pro x64), if I didnt have this tuner, Itunes, trojan remover, and this bluetooth dongle. Since none of them work / have drivers for XP Pro x64

But its on the other PC here

qazwsxokmijn
16-12-2008, 07:28 PM
What LCD resolution are you going to run?

I will prpbaly get grief from the ATi supporters, however I wouldnt buy a Multi GPU solution if my life depended on it.....especially ATi, due to there pathetic 2 monthly driver trunk fixes...at least with NV you can create your own profile.

So, ATi 4870 or NV260GTX\216 are about the best solutions, 280 is just too expensive and not that much faster than the 260.
I've had my 4870 for over a month and for the first couple of days I had issues with its PowerPlay feature causing graphical glitches and crashes etc. However, that had nothing to do with the 4870 itself or ATI's drivers, but rather the manufacturer, Sapphire, who released the card with a piece of crap they call a BIOS.

After flashing the card with a new official BIOS it's all good. The heat isn't an issue, but I certainly don't want 70 degrees idle, so I just use Rivatuner to keep the fan on 32% all the time.

memphis
16-12-2008, 07:48 PM
I think if you stick with the 32bit OS and 2 x 2 gig of ram sticks = 4 gig, you will be happy and have no problems with any of your stuff and you can carry on with things with no worries.

All the stuff I listed will be a big upgrade for you anyway coming from what you have now and so you will have good times playing your games etc.:D

PS.Another thing is not all games work on a 64bit OS as well,so another reason to stick to a 32bit OS.;)

The 64bit OS only get if you want more then 4 gig of ram and are sure you wont have any problems with your softwear and games etc..:D

SolMiester
16-12-2008, 08:17 PM
I've had my 4870 for over a month and for the first couple of days I had issues with its PowerPlay feature causing graphical glitches and crashes etc. However, that had nothing to do with the 4870 itself or ATI's drivers, but rather the manufacturer, Sapphire, who released the card with a piece of crap they call a BIOS.

After flashing the card with a new official BIOS it's all good. The heat isn't an issue, but I certainly don't want 70 degrees idle, so I just use Rivatuner to keep the fan on 32% all the time.

Yeah, well, as I said in the post...its multi gpu issues, not single...the 4870 is a great card along with its little brother...

qazwsxokmijn
16-12-2008, 08:22 PM
Yeah, well, as I said in the post...its multi gpu issues, not single...the 4870 is a great card along with its little brother...
Well, in that case maybe you should buy me a 4870x2 so I could come up with a rebuttal to your claim. :D

memphis
16-12-2008, 08:29 PM
Myself I stay away from multi gpu graphic cards from both Nvidia and Ati.:thumbs:

The multi gpu graphic cards from both of them have had issues.:lol:

Its better to get a fast powerful single gpu from Nvidia or Ati for those reasons.:)

Nvidia/Ati what ever is best on the day it does not matter to me I vote for the features and what other stuff it has over the other.
Ati this time because they have GDDR 5 and 10.1 and 4.1 and are constantly battling against the big dog Nvidia and you need to keep them going to keep prices down,however I will buy a Nvidia graphics card as soon as it is better then an ATI card and cheaper as money rules around here so I have to think the same as well!!!

Mcpisik
16-12-2008, 08:33 PM
Its not software you have to worry about with 64 bit, its the drivers...

Hmmm, Im now looking more at the 64bit thanks Speedy (& Memphis)
Sounds like (from a quick search) people aren't having too much trouble with games etc. which would be my main concern.
Think it might be suitable for me but after a quick read of the update from Memphis, I'll look into issues first....
:) And yeah, perhaps the 4gig will be nice enough!

memphis
16-12-2008, 09:03 PM
QUOTE=Mcpisik;Hmmm, Im now looking more at the 64bit thanks Speedy (& Memphis)
Sounds like (from a quick search) people aren't having too much trouble with games etc. which would be my main concern.
Think it might be suitable for me but after a quick read of the update from Memphis, I'll look into issues first....
:) And yeah, perhaps the 4gig will be nice enough!

Yeah man 4 gig will be sweet as!!!:D:thumbs:

Check all your games you have now and all the ones you want to buy with the system requirements for the game to run:some are only 32bit XP and or 32bit Vista.:)If you stick with 32bit XP Pro or 32bit XP Home then all your games will work,not all games will work with 32bit Vista as some are older games before Vista came out.

LATER ON:
If it's not enough ram for you and all your other stuff is sweet as then you can get a OEM 64bit OS (OEM is cheaper)when you buy more ram later on.:)

SolMiester
16-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Speedy has legacy hardware and that is why he has some driver issues....Vista 64 is in fact a better O/S, especially with 6-8Gb+ RAM, I am fairly certain its explorer.exe is multi-threaded unlike xp & vista 32. 2008 server is anyway....

There are millions of users out there with x64 vista with few issues...

Speedy Gonzales
16-12-2008, 10:22 PM
And probably because the dongle I have, was made way after XP Pro x64 was around. There are Vista 64 bit drivers for it tho.

And it sounds pretty stupid the tuner in this doesnt have x64 drivers, but there are x64 drivers, for the other tuner here (made by the same company). But its not in a case

memphis
16-12-2008, 10:48 PM
QUOTE=SolMiester;Vista 64 is in fact a better O/S, especially with 6-8Gb+ RAM.

Yes you need that much ram because it hogs so much ram just to run the OS.:lol:

There are millions of users out there with x64 vista with few issues...[/QUOTE]

Wow millions of people have issues with x64 Vista!!!Why would anybody want that!!!:D

Just wait for Windows 7 to come out.

Bill Gates, in an interview with Newsweek, suggested that the next version of Windows would "be more user-centric."Gates later said that Windows 7 will also focus on performance improvements.
Senior Vice President Bill Veghte stated that Windows 7 will not have the kind of compatibility issues with Vista that Vista has with previous versions.
Windows 7 includes a number of new features, such as advances in touch, speech, and handwriting recognition, support for virtual hard disks, improved performance on multi-core processors, improved boot performance, and kernel improvements.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=windows%207&ei=UTF-8&fr=opera3

:D:thumbs:

SolMiester
17-12-2008, 08:18 AM
QUOTE=SolMiester;Vista 64 is in fact a better O/S, especially with 6-8Gb+ RAM.

Yes you need that much ram because it hogs so much ram just to run the OS.:lol:

There are millions of users out there with x64 vista with few issues...

Wow millions of people have issues with x64 Vista!!!Why would anybody want that!!!:D

Just wait for Windows 7 to come out.

Bill Gates, in an interview with Newsweek, suggested that the next version of Windows would "be more user-centric."Gates later said that Windows 7 will also focus on performance improvements.
Senior Vice President Bill Veghte stated that Windows 7 will not have the kind of compatibility issues with Vista that Vista has with previous versions.
Windows 7 includes a number of new features, such as advances in touch, speech, and handwriting recognition, support for virtual hard disks, improved performance on multi-core processors, improved boot performance, and kernel improvements.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=windows%207&ei=UTF-8&fr=opera3

:D:thumbs:[/QUOTE]

Are you waffling?....Vista uses prefetch....the more RAM you give it, the more it caches, like as in a RAM DRIVE.....

When I say few issues, I mean....as in none.....

Without Vista 64, you couldnt have Tri-SLI beasts as they would swallow the bulk of the 4GB 32bit limit......

wratterus
17-12-2008, 08:33 AM
I did a vista business x64 build a while ago, 8GB RAM, 9800GT, works a charm, about as fast as XP on a normal PC build. :D

Naa, jokes. It was really nice. Didn't have any problems during setup.

pctek
17-12-2008, 09:39 AM
Just wait for Windows 7 to come out.

Bill Gates, in an interview with Newsweek, suggested that the next version of Windows would "be more user-centric."Gates later said that Windows 7 will also focus on performance improvements.
Senior Vice President Bill Veghte stated that Windows 7 will not have the kind of compatibility issues with Vista that Vista has with previous versions.
Windows 7 includes a number of new features, such as advances in touch, speech, and handwriting recognition, support for virtual hard disks, improved performance on multi-core processors, improved boot performance, and kernel improvements.



.

Windows 7 isn't going to be much different. Its just Vista in new clothes.
Just use Ultimate Tweaker...............

SolMiester
17-12-2008, 09:55 AM
Windows 7 isn't going to be much different. Its just Vista in new clothes.
Just use Ultimate Tweaker...............

Ehh, thats not my quote PCT....

Thebananamonkey
17-12-2008, 10:00 AM
Ehh, thats not my quote PCT....

If you look at your post, you'll see it is.

You broke the quotes from memphis. His are broken all over the show though.

SolMiester
17-12-2008, 10:03 AM
BM, yeah, just noticed memphis broke the quote, but it isnt mine really....

Mcpisik
19-12-2008, 08:09 AM
Would 4x 500gb hard drives be better than 2x 1000gb?
I thought access times to the outside of a large disc were slower, but am not sure...
Memphis you suggested 4x 1000gb, but I don't think I need the space before "my next build".
Was thinking around 2000gb. Would 2 of these be suitable?
Seagate Barracuda ST31000340AS Hard Disk Drive, 1000GB, 7200rpm, 32768KB Cache, SATA-2 (http://ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=356368)

I store all my photos on my pc currently and some dvds etc.
What's the best setup (raid etc) for getting this new system fast & safe?
I use Raid 0 now...
Would Raid 1 negate the need for backing photos up to dvd if I doubled them to the other hard drive?
Perhaps then a few 500gb drives for setting up raid....?

ie: 1 drive just for photos and non application stuff
1 drive for games and programs?
....

Cheers!

Thebananamonkey
19-12-2008, 08:32 AM
You could get two 1500GB drives and have them in RAID1. Or of the above, I'd go for two 1000GB in RAID0.

Having four HDD's is just asking for trouble. The fewer parts you have in your comp, the less there is to go wrong.

Mcpisik
19-12-2008, 09:10 AM
You could get two 1500GB drives and have them in RAID1. Or of the above, I'd go for two 1000GB in RAID0.

Having four HDD's is just asking for trouble. The fewer parts you have in your comp, the less there is to go wrong.

Thanks :)
Is a suitable use of one drive, having photos and dvds stored?
With current 2 hard drives in raid 0 they're just thrown in there, but was wondering about benefits of a dedicated drive for photos and 2 others in Raid 0. Not sure if you can keep the 1 drive out of the raid 0 setup?

pctek
19-12-2008, 10:02 AM
BM, yeah, just noticed memphis broke the quote, but it isnt mine really....

Yeah I noticed. Couldn't be bothered fixing it...........