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wainuitech
08-12-2008, 11:13 AM
Does any one know for a FACT / from EXPERIANCE the approx range difference between a Wireless G & Wireless N router.

I know the surroundings have a great effect, thats why I ask for actual experience not reviews.

In particular the Linkskys WAG160N Wireless-N UltraRangePlus ADSL2+ Gateway & WAG54G Wireless-G ADSL2+ VPN/Firewall Gateway.

I have tried the G version in a place, and the range thats required is right on the outer limits of the G and often disconnects .

wratterus
08-12-2008, 11:52 AM
It is noticibly better (5 to 10m from experience) - IF you have a good wireless N antenna at the other end.

Otherwise the difference is non existent.

wainuitech
08-12-2008, 12:24 PM
Thanks Wratterus :thumbs: - the person has two Laptops that need to connect - may be easier to run a cable under the house, to a Access point from in the same room.

wratterus
08-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Thanks Wratterus :thumbs: - the person has two Laptops that need to connect - may be easier to run a cable under the house, to a Access point from in the same room.

I would. ;) Sounds like one of those situations where in the long run that would be the far better option.

Especially as lappys aren't eaily 'upgradable' in the wifi reception area. :punk

nofam
08-12-2008, 01:31 PM
What about EoP as an option?

Has that gear come down in price?

Chilling_Silence
08-12-2008, 04:35 PM
I wouldnt bother with N-wireless. I'd personally grab an el-cheapo Asus WL-520gC from the likes of Qmb.co.nz for $45-ish and use that as a Wireless Repeater-Bridge :)

DD-WRT firmware runs brilliantly on them, that, and Im just not a fan of cables ;)

stormdragon
08-12-2008, 07:48 PM
I wouldnt bother with N-wireless. I'd personally grab an el-cheapo Asus WL-520gC from the likes of Qmb.co.nz for $45-ish and use that as a Wireless Repeater-Bridge :)

DD-WRT firmware runs brilliantly on them, that, and Im just not a fan of cables ;)

How easy is it to set these up as repeaters?

Chilling_Silence
08-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Dead simple!
Seriously, once the firmware is on there, its a 2 minute job :) Then, just plonk the sucker down part-way between your main router and the laptops, and you're good as gold. If you do it right, then they will transparently hand-off between each other, depending on which one you're closest to.

Installing the firmware isnt difficult either, just read the instructions thoroughly (Not that there's much to it), and you'll have no worries! :)

I keep one in my car, spare, you'd be surprised how often it comes in handy having a router you can quickly set up to boost signal / coverage.. I think Ive gone through 5 in the last 2 months maybe?

stormdragon
09-12-2008, 08:57 AM
Thanks Chilly;

Would it be possible to use two of these as repeaters to extend the signal even further?

As in:
Router ---------------- Repeater ---------------- Repeater ---------------- Laptops

Sorry about hijacking your thread Wainui.

wainuitech
09-12-2008, 09:10 AM
:p Its not a Hijack - the person has informed that where the current modem is you cant get under the floor :( Meaning wireless may be the only answer - BUT it won't be wireless N - so putting in repeaters may be the only answer as drawn - but just to be difficult - they don't want them seen either, and power points are not to bountiful.

Chill-- What firmware are you referring to please - I will be using the ASUS WL-520gU - as the ASUS WL-520gC is currently out of stock from my supplier.

Chilling_Silence
09-12-2008, 10:06 AM
Wainuitech:
Same DD-WRT firmware. the v24 SP1 is what Ive been using, I fluffed around with several other non-stock DD-WRT firmwares in order to get WDS working with WPA2, but no joy.
The -gU module can take the larger firmwares like -voip whereas the -gC only takes the Micro I believe :)
Its kind of daunting at first doing the upgrade, but even if you fubar it over, those routers are so good at recovery, you'll be fine!

stormdragon:
Yes, it is, but IIRC you need to tick an additional box on the router, STP or something... I would *definitely* advise you to try and setup one first, get that going, get familiar with it, then add another to the mix.
I currently have at home:

Lounge Repeater gC | ---- | Main Wireless AP gU | ---- | Church Auditorium Repeater gU
And the Main AP goes to my ADSL modem and the rest of the network :)
All are running DD-WRT, however you *can* just put DD-WRT on the Repeater-Bridge. Ive successfully had it repeating the signal from crappy D-Link routers, TP-Link routers... All are fine :)

See here:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge
At Step 4.1 its worth *initially* setting it up to use a different SSID so you can easily distinguish the difference between the two. Seriously, trust me, it saves heartache! Then, you can later give them the same SSID.

Same works for Encryption, if you can, turn it off while you're learning.. then later add the WEP / WPA / WPA2 back on, on *both* the physical and the virtual interface.

Last note: If you're setting up the repeater-bridge with the same SSID, and your main router uses encryption, use the same key for both the physical and virtual interface on your repeater-bridge, otherwise your laptops will have issues during the roaming hand-offs ;)

Hope this helps, lots to think about :D

I *should* really make some documentation of my own, include files and step-by-steps with screenshots ... Might do that tonight, Ive got an unflashed -gC lying around home I believe


Chill.

Chilling_Silence
09-12-2008, 10:07 AM
Wainuitech:
Same DD-WRT firmware. the v24 SP1 is what Ive been using, I fluffed around with several other non-stock DD-WRT firmwares in order to get WDS working with WPA2, but no joy.
The -gU module can take the larger firmwares like -voip whereas the -gC only takes the Micro I believe :)
Its kind of daunting at first doing the upgrade, but even if you fubar it over, those routers are so good at recovery, you'll be fine!

stormdragon:
Yes, it is, but IIRC you need to tick an additional box on the router, STP or something... I would *definitely* advise you to try and setup one first, get that going, get familiar with it, then add another to the mix.
I currently have at home:

Lounge Repeater gC | ---- | Main Wireless AP gU | ---- | Church Auditorium Repeater gU
And the Main AP goes to my ADSL modem and the rest of the network :)
All are running DD-WRT, however you *can* just put DD-WRT on the Repeater-Bridge. Ive successfully had it repeating the signal from crappy D-Link routers, TP-Link routers... All are fine :)

See here:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge
At Step 4.1 its worth *initially* setting it up to use a different SSID so you can easily distinguish the difference between the two. Seriously, trust me, it saves heartache! Then, you can later give them the same SSID.

Same works for Encryption, if you can, turn it off while you're learning.. then later add the WEP / WPA / WPA2 back on, on *both* the physical and the virtual interface.

Last note: If you're setting up the repeater-bridge with the same SSID, and your main router uses encryption, use the same key for both the physical and virtual interface on your repeater-bridge, otherwise your laptops will have issues during the roaming hand-offs ;)

Hope this helps, lots to think about :D

I *should* really make some documentation of my own, include files and step-by-steps with screenshots ... Might do that tonight, Ive got an unflashed -gC lying around home I believe


Chill.

wainuitech
09-12-2008, 12:56 PM
Thanks Chill - Brains in go slow mode this week - to much sun inthe weekend - but any instructions/ picture I'm sure will be a help to others as well -

Talk about coincidence this thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=95407) and the suggestions by Dragonslayer may just do the trick - the last Item looks promising - as the signal problem I have at the customers place - just needs a slight kick in the backside to be a bit stronger, and it will work.

Chilling_Silence
09-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Yeah, Ive used the HomePlugs that DragonSlayer mentioned at home and for one or two clients myself. Its not a bad solution, but if I were to do it again I'd definitely opt for using the Asus WL-520gC or -gU model Wireless instead. Not to mention you can buy 3x Routers for the price of a Homeplug combo ($160 at Pricespy here: http://www.pricespy.co.nz/c_531.html?p=54650)

Another one of the benefits of the Repeater-Bridge is you can plug anything into the 4x LAN Ports of the AP, and it'll then bridge all traffic across the Wireless :) Its nice, Ive made some LAN-only printers connect to a Wireless network this way.

Will post step-by-steps with screenshots tonight then when I get home from the movies with the Mrs!

wainuitech
09-12-2008, 05:26 PM
Cheers, Chill - look forward to it - Man the brains not here this week - ;)

Chilling_Silence
09-12-2008, 06:31 PM
Personally I blame the time of year - Its the "silly season", it does that kinda thing to ya ... ;)

That said, I love Christmas! :)

Just confirmed I *do* have one spare that Ive not yet flashed, so I'll find somewhere I can chuck the files up that I use, as well as document the whole process from start -> finish!

stormdragon
09-12-2008, 08:48 PM
Chilly an easy to follow documentation would be absolutely great! Hope you enjoy the movie.

linw
09-12-2008, 11:32 PM
Yes, I am interested in the docu as well, Chill. I have a 520GU I was going to experiment with. TIA

Using DD-WRT software, is there the halving of bandwidth through the repeater (can't send and receive in duplex)?

Yep, no use having greater range on the router if the laptop/PC can't get a signal back! Been there, done that!

Just a warning about the Linksys WAG160N. It has a rep for locking up on the wireless side. I think I am seeing this on a customer's site:( Just google b4 buying is my advice.

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 01:31 AM
Yes, it halves the bandwidth .. so at best, you're realistically not going to push over 12mbps... Its perfect for browsing the web, streaming video files etc .. just not pushing *large* files in a short period of time. Other than that, ours gets a *real* bashing around here, with anywhere from 10 -> 20 devices connected concurrently at a time.

Unfortunately I got home a little late, might have to try and write the doco tomorrow AM :)

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 09:00 AM
Man the price of the -gC fluctuates HEAPS

On the 15 / 9, I bought two for $57+gst
On the 16 / 11 I bought another for $45+gst
Now they're back up to $60+gst :(

Ah well ...

Began writing the doco -- Will post shortly :)

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 01:16 PM
First file has everything, the gC and the gU stuff
Includes firmwares & the app needed to put the gU into recovery mode
The documentation for flashing the gU isnt mine, but copied from a forum. Ive included screenshots and doco for how to do a Wireless Repeater-Bridge from once you've *got* DD-WRT flashed. Its more difficult on a gU, but still possible. Takes about 10 minutes instead of 2
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CJJGQEVB
Approx 25.4MB


The second is approx 4.24MB and has ONLY the stuff needed for the WL-520gC
Firmware files, documentation and screenshots :)
From start to finish, you could do the whole thing in less than 5 minutes easy!
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WJJJ8UPE
Approx 4.24MB

Hope this helps, let me know if you get stuck

Cheers


Chill.

wainuitech
10-12-2008, 01:31 PM
Many thanks Chill - downloading it now - well done :thumbs:

Hopefully brains working now - well as good as its gonna get :eek:

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 01:48 PM
You said you'll be using the gU model which are a bit harder to flash initially, but still very doable. Ive included everything you'll ever need, which was half my problem when I first set out to do it too...!

wainuitech
10-12-2008, 01:54 PM
Ok got it - Nice and clear instructions / Great pictures - you can take the rest of the day off now. :thumbs::thanks

I'll have a look at flashing the gU as soon as it turns up, hopefully later today.

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 02:50 PM
Good luck! :D

stormdragon
10-12-2008, 03:15 PM
Hey Chilly

Thanks heaps for the documentation should make it nice and simple to set up! Just got go and buy the hardware now.

:thanks


Nice and clear instructions / Great pictures - you can take the rest of the day off now.



:thumbs:

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 04:34 PM
If you can, get the gC model, its much easier to setup the initial flash.
The gU model has more RAM, and a USB port if you wanted to hook up a USB HDD.. but yeah ...

wainuitech
10-12-2008, 04:59 PM
If you can, get the gC model, its much easier to setup the initial flash.
The gU model has more RAM, and a USB port if you wanted to hook up a USB HDD.. but yeah ...Morning Star - The vendors I get them from are right out of stock they have a few of the gU's but no gC's - rang them and they are only ordering new stock this week - so it will be next year before it arrives. :(

Blam
10-12-2008, 05:05 PM
wt-How much do you get them for? The store near me offers them for 85 bucks, can you get it cheaper?

wainuitech
10-12-2008, 05:14 PM
Which one the gC or gU the rrp for the gU is $85.00

linw
10-12-2008, 05:19 PM
Thanks very much for your trouble, Chill. Will have a good look later.

Blam
10-12-2008, 05:57 PM
The gc. The store near me offers it for 82 bucks (http://qmb.co.nz/p.aspx?106734) but it offers the GU for 81 (http://qmb.co.nz/p.aspx?107299)?
Isn't the GU better? Why is it cheaper?

On another note my friend currently has the gu and he wants to upgrade to the asus rt-n11 (http://qmb.co.nz/p.aspx?108093) which is wireless N instead of his original G. He wants to know if he'll see much of a speed increase, as 120 dollars seems weirdly priced for a wireless N router??

Thanks WT
Blam

Speedy Gonzales
10-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Wireless N isnt really that useful, if nothing else on the network is Wireless N as well.

And some of these things arent cheap

stormdragon
10-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Yesterday the GC was $55.31 at QMB that's a massive price jump!

wainuitech
10-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Cant get any gC's till next year - The gU has a USB printer port where as the gC doesn't - apart from that I think they are much the same.

Maybe Chill can confirm, as normally I use the gC's - only reason I got the gU this time is the gC's are out of stock.


Yesterday the GC was $55.31 at QMB that's a massive price jump! We better get used to it - the price of everything is going up - vendors warned me of that a few weeks back.

Two weeks ago I gave a quote - I only put 1 week as valid prices - this week its gone up by about $50.00 for the same thing. Them's the times !!

Blam
10-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Its even worse when you're building a PC, last month I calculated the costs for building a cheap HTPC for parents and when I redid the calculations yesterday it was 160 dollars more! CPU prices are outrageous!

Speedy Gonzales
10-12-2008, 06:20 PM
lol most of the stuff I've got here, the shop gave me quite a bit of a discount.

Probably to get rid of me :p

Since most of the mobos they replaced didnt work (one did but the firewire didnt work), so I changed the mobo and CPU from AMD, to Intel.

And another was DOA.

I changed so many times, it wasnt funny

Chilling_Silence
10-12-2008, 09:36 PM
Not really any difference between them to be honest.
Both have the same CPU, both have identical Broadcom BCM5354 rev2 chipsets, both have the same amount of system memory. The Antenna on the gU is physically better, but both the gU and gC antenna is the same db rating.

Basically the gU has a USB port (Ive never known anybody to actually use it though, like for sharing a USB HDD / Printer..), and it also has an additional 2MB Flash (Total 4MB) vs the gC which has only 2MB total.

This means the gC can only have the MICRO firmware, but you can use the MINI or the VOIP firmwares for the gU. I work a bit with VoIP, never required anything from that router thou :p

In case anybody is interested:
Attached file: Asus_gC_details.jpg (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Asus_gC_details.jpg) (113 KB)

Attached file: Asus_gU_details.jpg (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Asus_gU_details.jpg) (148 KB)

Did anybody manage to get DD-WRT flashed? I found I had another unopened one, so timed myself ... less than 3 minutes :D Its that easy! :)

Chilling_Silence
02-01-2009, 09:08 PM
Thought I'd bump this thread and see if anybody had any joy? Im busy playing with X-WRT right now on my -gU and thought I'd drag this thread up from the dead ;)