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Mcpisik
22-07-2008, 01:33 PM
Hi! Yes product opinions please...

Looking for a gaming monitor that also has an awesome display for images etc.
2ms response would be good.
What are the uber products at the moment?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Price is no object as I do like my pc rather a lot!

Thanks people!

utopian201
22-07-2008, 01:47 PM
what do you mean by awesome display for images? Do you mean image quality wise?

There are 3 lcd technologies:
TN - fastest response time, no input lag, cheap, poor colour reproduction and viewing angles
PVA - slightly slower response time, high input lag, a bit more expensive, significantly better colour reproduction and viewing angles
IPS - response time about the same as PVA, input lag is in between TN and PVA, most expensive technology, colour reproduction and viewing angles rival that of CRTs

What size are you looking at?
The best for games would probably be a BenQ one (one of the V2400 or 241, I cant quite remember), but for 'awesome display of images etc'
22" : Lenovo L220x - PVA (best 22" in the world; only one with full HD 1920x1200 resolution; all other 22" are 1680x1050)
24" : Dell 2408wfp (but wait a few weeks, they are releasing an updated version which fixes some issues) - PVA
NEC 2490wuxi: not available in NZ, but this is hands down THE best 24" monitor. If price is no object, you should get one from overseas - IPS
30" : Apple Cinema display/Dell 3008wfp - both IPS screens.

These screens range from $1000 to $3000 (you did say price was no object :D)
I'm getting the 2408wfp once they update the firmware, its the best value one (cheaper than Lenovo but bigger).

Mcpisik
22-07-2008, 01:52 PM
Now that's some quality info thanks.
I'm looking at around 24"

I'll use your info as my starting point and go do some searching.
Cheers!

pctek
22-07-2008, 02:38 PM
Viewsonic.

Samsung.

Mcpisik
22-07-2008, 05:30 PM
:) Cheers

robbyp
22-07-2008, 05:56 PM
what do you mean by awesome display for images? Do you mean image quality wise?

There are 3 lcd technologies:
TN - fastest response time, no input lag, cheap, poor colour reproduction and viewing angles
PVA - slightly slower response time, high input lag, a bit more expensive, significantly better colour reproduction and viewing angles
IPS - response time about the same as PVA, input lag is in between TN and PVA, most expensive technology, colour reproduction and viewing angles rival that of CRTs

What size are you looking at?
The best for games would probably be a BenQ one (one of the V2400 or 241, I cant quite remember), but for 'awesome display of images etc'
22" : Lenovo L220x - PVA (best 22" in the world; only one with full HD 1920x1200 resolution; all other 22" are 1680x1050)
24" : Dell 2408wfp (but wait a few weeks, they are releasing an updated version which fixes some issues) - PVA
NEC 2490wuxi: not available in NZ, but this is hands down THE best 24" monitor. If price is no object, you should get one from overseas - IPS
30" : Apple Cinema display/Dell 3008wfp - both IPS screens.

These screens range from $1000 to $3000 (you did say price was no object :D)
I'm getting the 2408wfp once they update the firmware, its the best value one (cheaper than Lenovo but bigger).


I don't know if there are many IPS ones around these days. Most high end ones are PVA, and the cheap ones are TN. TN are good for games, PVA ones are good for photo work.

Mcpisik
22-07-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't know if there are many IPS ones around these days. Most high end ones are PVA, and the cheap ones are TN. TN are good for games, PVA ones are good for photo work.
Ah....I do a heck of a lot of gaming, but also web design etc. with a lot of images etc.
Kind of need the best of both worlds! But don't we all...
Guess I better ponder :)
Thanks

utopian201
22-07-2008, 06:23 PM
I guess it depends on how exacting your needs are. If it is the absolute best you're looking for, the NEC 2490 would be on your list to investigate. I'm not sure how much the shipping would be from overseas though.

If you're looking for something significantly cheaper (and therefore available in NZ), the Dell 2408wfp is worth a look, but -ONLY- once it has been updated with the newer firmware. Currently, from what I have read, it is useless for games due to the horrible input lag. Some people don't notice it, others are very sensitive to it. It also has innaccurate colour (it is far too 'colourful') out of the box, but once properly calibrated using the right hardware, it is one of the most colour accurate monitors available. But hey, vibrant colours and images look better for the average user.

The new version was supposed to be out the middle of this month but doesn't appear to be, so if you were going to get that one, I'd definitely wait a while.

But if image quality rules above everything else, I'd definitely avoid TN. TN panels can only display about 262,000 colours, and do the rest with dithering. So if colour accuracy is important (eg for web design, print work, photo retouching etc), I would recommend a PVA or IPS screen.

www.tftcentral.co.uk has an identifier of which type of panel is in each model of monitor produced, so you can check up on the model you're interested in.

I wouldn't even say ghosting is an issue now, the main issue in terms of an lcd monitor's suitability for gaming id say is input lag, which mainly affects only panels based on Samsung's S-PVA panels. The Dell uses the same panel as the Samsung 245T, but is about 1/3 cheaper.

Its funny because no monitor review in ANY magazine I have seen touches on these issues. It is only on the true enthusiast websites which you find reviews which mention these panel types.

I was in the same position as you, scouring for the 'perfect' monitor, which is how I came about all this info :)

utopian201
22-07-2008, 06:31 PM
Ah....I do a heck of a lot of gaming, but also web design etc. with a lot of images etc.
Kind of need the best of both worlds! But don't we all...
Guess I better ponder :)
Thanks

Actually the best of both worlds is a CRT :p. The only drawbacks with CRTs are power usage, bulk and weight. But how often do you lug one around? If you're looking for the best CRT monitor ever produced was the Sony FW900.

24" Trinitron, max resolution 2,304 x 1,440, 50kg.

Unfortunately like all things good, they dont make them anymore. They are available on ebay though. Pity they don't make 'em like they used to. I'm not sure given the choice whether I'd have this or a 30" Dell, its that good.

Mcpisik
23-07-2008, 05:25 AM
Now there's a die hard CRT man if ever I saw one!
You know, with your commitment, I'd suggest you wait 5 years until they're all gone. Then start making them and selling to teenagers (who won't know what one is) as the latest best thing to come out. May you become rich :)

utopian201
23-07-2008, 10:40 AM
I think 'pro gamers' (if there is such a thing) still use them at LAN competitions. If you can see the enemy before they see you (because CRTs are always a couple of frames ahead of an LCD), for a fast paced FPS game online, it may be enough to give you the edge. It wont automatically make them a better player, but its like having a lower ping. :)

wratterus
23-07-2008, 10:50 AM
I'd have to agree with the Sony. :D

I still use a Sony CRT monitor on one of my PCs (Well Dell, Sony made it - one of the real flat ones) and it is as good as the new LCDs. Freaking heavey thing it is too, not a monitor for LANs. :p

In saying that, I have no problems at all recommending a new Viewsonic or Samsung LCD with a low response time, as a all around monitor for graphics/text/images/gaming/movies.

Mcpisik
23-07-2008, 02:11 PM
I'd have to agree with the Sony. :D

I still use a Sony CRT monitor on one of my PCs (Well Dell, Sony made it - one of the real flat ones) and it is as good as the new LCDs. Freaking heavey thing it is too, not a monitor for LANs. :p

In saying that, I have no problems at all recommending a new Viewsonic or Samsung LCD with a low response time, as a all around monitor for graphics/text/images/gaming/movies.

Thanks...Unfortunately I cant go back to crt, as I love the space I save especially.

I'm considering a samsung syncmaster or Dell Ultrasharp .
I have a Viewsonic lcd from about 5 years ago and next to my Sony lcd it looks nasty. It is old though...

A question on size...is 27" getting to big for sitting in front of the screen?
I was looking at 24" but would like the extra screen real estate, if it doesn't lose it's quality at a close distance.

Can anyone tell me the best of these 2 dells (size difference aside)
Dell UltraSharp™ 2408WFP 24"
Dell UltraSharp™ 2707WFP 27" (http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd?c=nz&cs=nzdhs1&l=en&s=dhs)
I'm not to understanding of the Brightness or Contrast ratio statements on that page...

Cheers!

wratterus
23-07-2008, 02:21 PM
IMO 27" is getting a bit extreme. ;)

24" is a good size. The 27" is the same resolution anyway, so rather than getting more screen real estate, everything would be a bit bigger, and probably not as sharp (Guessing here - might be completely wrong) If you could find somewhere that has them on display that would be great, might be a bit hard to do though.

The Dell UltraSharp™ 2408WFP 24" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor would be the one to go with. Slowish response time, but you get that with bigger monitors, you probably won't notice it.

The reported response time is not always right - on the Dell site it says - 6ms Grey to Grey, in reality that's a 12ms response, as the pixel has to go white black white (or any other colour) for you to discern movement.

Viewsonic seem to advertise real response times. Don't know about Samsung. Normally on the manufacturers site, they have all the little bits like that that discerning buyers such as yourself need to know about.

robbyp
23-07-2008, 02:25 PM
Thanks...Unfortunately I cant go back to crt, as I love the space I save especially.

I'm considering a samsung syncmaster or Dell Ultrasharp .
I have a Viewsonic lcd from about 5 years ago and next to my Sony lcd it looks nasty. It is old though...

A question on size...is 27" getting to big for sitting in front of the screen?
I was looking at 24" but would like the extra screen real estate, if it doesn't lose it's quality at a close distance.

Can anyone tell me the best of these 2 dells (size difference aside)
Dell UltraSharp™ 2408WFP 24"
Dell UltraSharp™ 2707WFP 27" (http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd?c=nz&cs=nzdhs1&l=en&s=dhs)
I'm not to understanding of the Brightness or Contrast ratio statements on that page...

Cheers!

The 27 inch ones aren't as good yet as the 24 inch ones. Dell ofthen have specials, and I have seen the 24 inch one for as low as $799. You never buy from dell at full price, it is similar to Briscoes, where full price is ususally higher then the RRP or what it is sold for in other stores.

Mcpisik
23-07-2008, 02:27 PM
The 27 inch ones aren't as good yet as the 24 inch ones. Dell ofthen have specials, and I have seen the 24 inch one for as low as $799. You never buy from dell at full price, it is similar to Briscoes, where full price is ususally higher then the RRP or what it is sold for in other stores.
Good point...I'm happy to avoid rrp!

utopian201
23-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Can anyone tell me the best of these 2 dells (size difference aside)
Dell UltraSharp™ 2408WFP 24"
Dell UltraSharp™ 2707WFP 27" (http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd?c=nz&cs=nzdhs1&l=en&s=dhs)
I'm not to understanding of the Brightness or Contrast ratio statements on that page...

Cheers!

The resolution is the same, so the 27" will simply have bigger pixels. That might suite some though, some people cant stand tiny text.

The 24" has pivot which means the screen can be tilted so it is in portrait mode, useful for coding or reading long threads/websites etc. It also has an additional DVI and displayport input + a 2.1 sound output from the hdmi input.

Before you pull the trigger on the 2707, the 2709 has been released. It has largely the same, (not sure about the connectors, i think it adds a DVI + displayport, and loses the composite or s-video, cant remember which) but also includes a 5.1 sound output from the hdmi input.

It also features a newer OSD + uses touch sensitive buttons (rather than actual push buttons) where the leds behind them light up when it detects your finger near them, and then fade to black. This gives the monitor the minimalist look, as there are no buttons detracting from the design.

And then if you do decide to get the 2408, wait for the new firmware revision, it will likely be announced in this thread:
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=90203&view=by_date_ascending&page=38

robbyp
23-07-2008, 03:22 PM
And then if you do decide to get the 2408, wait for the new firmware revision, it will likely be announced in this thread:
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=90203&view=by_date_ascending&page=38

That is a very good point, although it is difficult to know what version it has. I know that this monitor has had some issues with ghosting and input lag, so I assume that firmwares may help fix those problems.

utopian201
23-07-2008, 04:37 PM
The 27 inch ones aren't as good yet as the 24 inch ones. Dell ofthen have specials, and I have seen the 24 inch one for as low as $799. You never buy from dell at full price, it is similar to Briscoes, where full price is ususally higher then the RRP or what it is sold for in other stores.

Indeed, Dell are like the Persian Rug warehouse of computer stores.


That is a very good point, although it is difficult to know what version it has. I know that this monitor has had some issues with ghosting and input lag, so I assume that firmwares may help fix those problems.

I'd only buy several weeks after the new firmware has been officially announced. There aren't any issues with ghosting as far as I'm aware. Apparently the firmware addresses input lag as well as giving finer increments to the sharpness setting (10 instead of 25). Although I'm not exactly sure why an LCD would need a sharpness setting if it is using pixels.

Mcpisik
23-07-2008, 05:02 PM
The resolution is the same, so the 27" will simply have bigger pixels. That might suite some though, some people cant stand tiny text.

The 24" has pivot which means the screen can be tilted so it is in portrait mode, useful for coding or reading long threads/websites etc. It also has........
That's superb. Nothing worse than buying a big toy to find out it was last centuries newest toy. I'll certainly wait...and give myself more time for deciding.
And thanks to all for other imputs...
:)

utopian201
24-07-2008, 12:43 PM
heads up, the new firmware is rolling out of new monitors as of monday, and all refurbs will also have the new firmware. Read the official announcement here:
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=93309#M93309

He says wait at least 2 weeks for them to get distributed. I'm going to wait a bit more, just to get other people's first impressions.

Battleneter2
24-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Hi! Yes product opinions please...

Looking for a gaming monitor that also has an awesome display for images etc.
2ms response would be good.
What are the uber products at the moment?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Price is no object as I do like my pc rather a lot!

Thanks people!


Skim reading this thread something obvious has been missed.

The native resolution for a 24" is usually 1900x1200. Your sig says you have a 7800gtx GPU which will be far to low to run most new ish high end games in that resolution, you will be trading image size for FPS big time.

utopian201
24-07-2008, 03:13 PM
you could always run it at something lower than native resolution. The Dell has a scaler chip, which scales images nicely (the downside being the high input lag). A side effect of non native resolutions is that it can get 'fuzzy' - i like to think of it as a sort of 'free' anti aliasing.

For what its worth, I'm planning to get a 2408wfp for my 6 year old comp (GeForce 4 Ti4200). I'm keeping my 17" for gaming :p

Battleneter2
24-07-2008, 03:39 PM
you could always run it at something lower than native resolution. The Dell has a scaler chip, which scales images nicely (the downside being the high input lag). A side effect of non native resolutions is that it can get 'fuzzy' - i like to think of it as a sort of 'free' anti aliasing.

For what its worth, I'm planning to get a 2408wfp for my 6 year old comp (GeForce 4 Ti4200). I'm keeping my 17" for gaming :p

Most LCD's will scale lower true but tend to look like ass (complete matter of opinion). As a general rule of thumb the bigger the LCD the faster the GPU you need, and i am talking about current and higher end gaming not solitaire lol.

utopian201
24-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Most LCD's will scale lower true but tend to look like ass (complete matter of opinion).
I'd say it defintely depends on the LCD. I'm using a viewsonic at the moment, it has normal input lag, but yes, the scaling is ugly. Screens that have processing/scaler chips tend to look significantly better, and you pay the price in input lag (unless they use a fast image processor)

Mcpisik
24-07-2008, 07:29 PM
heads up, the new firmware is rolling out
Cheers for the press release...

Mcpisik
24-07-2008, 07:36 PM
The native resolution for a 24" is usually 1900x1200. Your sig says you have a 7800gtx GPU...
Thanks, that's a very valid point. I haven't looked at my card for a couple of years in regard to upgrade, but have been looking at doing a new build soon.
Current Sony lcd is 19in and looks superb with my fps games.
Glad you mentioned the resolution difference...I'll start a search for cards too now!
Not starting that thread here though as I'm getting too much good info on the lcd's
And cheers for your input to Utop...

Mcpisik
14-02-2009, 02:43 PM
Just as a finish off...
Have a new pc now with 2 Nvidia 9800 cards in sli, so have upgraded monitor to a 24in Acer Aspire G24.
I'm sure there are mixed opinions on it, but I luuuuuuvve it.
My kill to death ratio is 85% better now.
(nose grows another inch...)