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Poppa John
29-06-2008, 11:32 AM
Hi All'
The phone line conects onto the house, the point of entry. From there it loops to all the phone sockets in the house, in series. Up to 5 connected with a phone or somesuch is the max .

Is it possible to run another circuit from the point of entry in parallel with the first? Would you then be able to run another 5 sockets off that line? PJ

PaulD
29-06-2008, 12:09 PM
Anything is possible, whether it is sensible is another thing.

There are two issues

1 The ability of the ringing generator to ring more than 4 or 5 telephones at a time. That doesn't change.

2 The affect of all this wiring on Broadband frequencies. A central splitter is better than filters on each working socket because it isolates any wiring stubs.

I wired our house with ample sockets and now have just 1 Uniden cordless base station that supports multiple handsets and 1 old corded phone in case the power goes off. Both are plugged into the same socket using a double adapter.

B.M.
29-06-2008, 12:40 PM
Hi All'
The phone line conects onto the house, the point of entry. From there it loops to all the phone sockets in the house, in series. Up to 5 connected with a phone or somesuch is the max .

Is it possible to run another circuit from the point of entry in parallel with the first? Would you then be able to run another 5 sockets off that line? PJ

I question all the phones being in series John, ;) but here is a link that may help explain telephone connection methods. http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PTC200X12.html#sec10.3

tweak'e
29-06-2008, 01:09 PM
you can run as many sockets as you like, your just limited by the number of devices you have conected (phone, fax, modems). some devices have higher "load" than others (ral number??) so that can limit the amount even more.

homes are usually wired by cost rather than performance. you may have series or parrallel or combo of both.
most are wired by those who are not responible for it hence they don't really care how its done.

PaulD
29-06-2008, 01:18 PM
I question all the phones being in series John, ;)
Electrically all sockets are wired in parallel.

The term "series" refers to sockets being daisy chained one after the other rather than wired in a "star" format with each socket wired back to a central point.

B.M.
29-06-2008, 01:48 PM
Electrically all sockets are wired in parallel.

My point exactly. ;)

Poppa John
29-06-2008, 05:29 PM
Electrically all sockets are wired in parallel.

The term "series" refers to sockets being daisy chained one after the other rather than wired in a "star" format with each socket wired back to a central point.

By Series I meant, daisy chained as stated above & // was each socket taken back to the POE.

Any way I have got the message. Thanks all. PJ :thumbs:

Roscoe
30-06-2008, 11:29 AM
John: They should all be wired in parallel, not series.

Have a look at the phone jacks that you are using. One should be a main (or primary) and all the others should be secondary.

The main is difference is that it has a circuit (I think it is a capacitor) that separates the ringing current from the speech current (80v AC and 50v DC) and you should only have one in the circuit and it should be, as the name suggests, the main one, the first in the line.

After that, you should be able to put a secondary jack in every room, including the loo, without too many problems.

I wired my house for multiple jacks nearly 30 years ago when multiple jacks were not common. I had a phone in nearly every room. Most convenient.

These days I'm not too certain why you would want to do that unless you have a fax in every room, or at least something such as a fax, that needs a direct connection.

Portable phones are much more convenient and, obviously, you only need one jack point. Just remember to keep it in your pocket through the day and by your bed at night. Isn't modern technology great?

Incidentally, I wonder at many people who have a portable phone but don't use it as a portable phone. They leave it on the charger all the time. The only time it seems to go portable is when they are using it. Then it goes back to the base. Why bother, I wonder? Would it not make more sense to carry it on or about your person? Most peculiar.:groan:

PaulD
30-06-2008, 01:15 PM
John: They should all be wired in parallel, not series.

Have a look at the phone jacks that you are using. One should be a main (or primary) and all the others should be secondary.

The main is difference is that it has a circuit (I think it is a capacitor) that separates the ringing current from the speech current (80v AC and 50v DC) and you should only have one in the circuit and it should be, as the name suggests, the main one, the first in the line.

After that, you should be able to put a secondary jack in every room, including the loo, without too many problems.

I wired my house for multiple jacks nearly 30 years ago when multiple jacks were not common. I had a phone in nearly every room. Most convenient.



We've covered the series/parallel aspect. the modern jacks are electrically in parallel, it's the physical layout of the cable route that is being described.

30 years ago the wiring was more complicated and some parts were in parallel but the ringing wire was truly in series with contacts in each jack to replace an absent phone.

To be fussy

The Telecom standard layout is now "2-Wire", there is only 1 type of jack marked with a "2". Master and secondary jacks are a relic of the previous "3-Wire" standard. All 2-wire jacks have their own capacitor. Since new phones have had their own capacitor built in for many years, there was talk that the capacitor would be removed from new jacks.

The 3rd ringing wire causes an imbalance to earth that becomes significant at broadband frequencies.

CYaBro
30-06-2008, 02:19 PM
We've covered the series/parallel aspect. the modern jacks are electrically in parallel, it's the physical layout of the cable route that is being described.

30 years ago the wiring was more complicated and some parts were in parallel but the ringing wire was truly in series with contacts in each jack to replace an absent phone.

To be fussy

The Telecom standard layout is now "2-Wire", there is only 1 type of jack marked with a "2". Master and secondary jacks are a relic of the previous "3-Wire" standard. All 2-wire jacks have their own capacitor. Since new phones have had their own capacitor built in for many years, there was talk that the capacitor would be removed from new jacks.

The 3rd ringing wire causes an imbalance to earth that becomes significant at broadband frequencies.

Te be even fussier :D

In Telecom's latest Code of Practice for residential cabling they say not to differentiate between computer/data outlets and phone outlets.
They are now called a Telecommunications Outlet or TO and are RJ45 sockets.
You have to use at least CAT5 cabling all wired back to a central location.
Any outlet can then be made to be for a phone or computer network just by swapping a patch lead at the central location.

PaulD
30-06-2008, 02:41 PM
Telecom can waffle on about generic cabling systems but for the average house they aren't prepared to put their money into them. Years ago the RJ sockets were rejected on reliability grounds for residential use. In the damp air found in NZ homes things tend to corrode esp if there is a dc potential involved. I'd make sure any telephone sockets were cheap to replace. Data sockets have an easier time as the dc voltages if any are lower.


From the code of practice http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PTC106_Mar_2008.pdf

"1.1.6 On-going servicing by Telecom
It is important that all parties concerned appreciate that Telecom does NOT
currently, under its standard residential wiring maintenance service, maintain or repair the cabling, TO’s, and terminating or cross-connecting hardware used for generic cabling systems.

* The present service covers the replacement of BT jackpoints and repair of their associated wiring only. Where these have been installed in compliance with Telecom’s requirements and failure has occurred due to normal use, these items are repaired free of charge on payment of a monthly fee. "

SurferJoe46
30-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Youse guys still using bells and clappers to ring the phones?

Seems to me that the modern phone..even in Upsidedown Land would be electronically generated ringtones by now...and I am sure that you could substantially increase the number of phone bases (the ring-y parts) to pretty close to unlimited numbers nowadays.

In the olden daze, it was customary to let the customer have just a couple of ringers, as the load at "central" would get too high for the wetcell batteries and the flimsy cotton wrapped wiring they usta have.

Of course, the dinosaurs would sometimes eat the wires and if one was ringing at that moment, they'd get a shock.

That's what killed the dinosaurs.

PaulD
30-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Youse guys still using bells and clappers to ring the phones?

Seems to me that the modern phone..even in Upsidedown Land would be electronically generated ringtones by now...and I am sure that you could substantially increase the number of phone bases (the ring-y parts) to pretty close to unlimited numbers nowadays.



Bells and clappers are long gone but they were very efficient at making noise.

If you have a phone with local mains power it's easy enough to just use the ringing to trigger locally powered sounders. If all you have is the energy from the ringing to play with it's harder. There are safety limits on the amount of voltage available.

CYaBro
30-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Telecom can waffle on about generic cabling systems but for the average house they aren't prepared to put their money into them.

Anyone building a new house would be stupid not put some money into a 'structured cabling' system.

SurferJoe46
01-07-2008, 06:12 AM
I just helped after advising a friend that he build his dream home (still in the bones) with CAT6e in the walls...he even opted for some nice fiber cable too.

He should be all set for the next 90 days or so until that stuff is obsolete.

He refuses (and I agree) to NOT use wireless Blutooth, Blufang, WIFI or any other permutation.

A wireless phone is the only concession he makes to hardwired.

R2x1
01-07-2008, 09:35 AM
That Cat 6e is probably good, but even if he's restricted to 115v, a few power cables may be useful some day too.

BTW, when we finish a 'phone call, we hang up. What do you inverted people do?