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emmerc
18-06-2008, 02:07 AM
Hello Forum People,

I have gotten a lot of wise advice from this site so once again I come for your advice.

I have several friends who are acquiring brand new laptops and these machines come with versions of Windows Vista. Various of these friends are by now blue about Vista and they are looking for ways to get their machines free of Vista so they come to me for help. I have tried to install WinXp on these machines but then I face real pains trying to find the drivers for the different devices. Now I see that some of these machines were really built and meant for vista and they will not work well with XP. So, what to do? These machines are a nightmare for their owners because of vista. Some of these friends are trying linux but not all of them are ready for linux because of the programs they need to run on windows plataform.

My question is then, would be enough to shut down Aero and try to disable the annoying messages on security and disable all the non essential services? Please give me an idea! Help!!!!

beeswax34
18-06-2008, 03:23 AM
You need to tell us what the "problems" your friends are facing and the model numbers of the laptops you are trying to downgrade.

autechre
18-06-2008, 08:57 AM
Quite a few new laptops/PCs have no XP support at all, so they may be stuck with Vista unless someone has hacked together some drivers for that particular model of laptop.

Best bet in this case would be to turn off aero & go back to classic mode for everything you can.

Thebananamonkey
18-06-2008, 09:16 AM
You must have some pretty hypersensitive friends if Vista's getting to them this much. I use vista every day, and don't really have any problems with it. First thing I did, though, was to turn of UAC. MS admitted that they intended it to annoy people when they wrote it.

wratterus
18-06-2008, 09:27 AM
Vista is fine.

When you only have 512 MB of RAM, or Nortons, or God forbid both, you run into serious speed issues, and other problems.

1. Any Vista machine NEEDS a MINIMUM of 1GB of RAM. More is better. If your trying to win Aero and windows flip with on board graphics - don't expect it to work overly smoothly. If you want to make the most of Vista's eye candy, get 1.5GB - 2GB of RAM and laptop with a decent graphics card.

2. INSTALL SP1!!! Vista SP1 has fixed a plethora of problems and makes Vista much more pleasant to use. Install other (Recommended) updates too.

4. Don't use the big internet security suites - Nortons, McAffee, and Trend Micro are the worst. They integrate themselves into Vista, and slow things down, especially Nortons.
Eset Smart Security, Kaspersky and Bit Defender are good for whole security suites. Avast is a good free AV.

5. Get rid of any clutter that doesn't need to be running.

(Post HijackThis logs if you want, we can help you disable stuff that doesn't need to be running.)

pctek
18-06-2008, 09:45 AM
Get off, some people don't like it, going on about how you do and don't have problems is not helpful.

There are a number of laptops with Vista Business and Vista Ulimate (only these versions) that qualify for the XP "downgrade" CDs.

Make sure you get one of these and then you have a choice of leaving Vista on or changing it to XP with the Restore CDs.

emmerc
18-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Friends, Thanks a lot for your wide range of advice. I knew I will receive good stuff. Well the machines range from an HP Pavilion TX1000 with 2GB of ram (I have not found sound nor video drivers for XP) and the other is a Toshiba Satellite L355-S7811 with 3GB or ram (on this will be installed Ubuntu right away) and an Acer AS6920-6621 also with 3GB or ram. Yes, my friends are sensitive. They are part of a community of master and doctoral students and they do not want to waste time dealing with an OS, they wish a high performance machine that works right away and without annoyances. The problem is that now as they get out of Vista annoyances, they are facing troubles with drivers for their machines in XP.

Their complains with vista have to do with things like the constant security messages, and they feel that the machines are slow even though these machines have good processors and enough memory. It is right, these machines are all under US$1.000,00 but they are students and their pockets are not able to get machines over US$1500,00 with discrete video memory and powerful graphic card that would help with vista. So they probably are between scilla and charybdis. Finally, some of them simply and plainly do not like Vista :-( and they want to go back to XP. How to please the user? Well, I will try your suggestions. Thanks a lot!

Speedy Gonzales
18-06-2008, 10:47 AM
Looks like there's drivers for the HP (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3185028&lang=en)

There's a few XP drivers for the Toshiba (http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/su/su_sc_modItemList.jsp?moid=1998611&rpn=PSLD0U&ct=DL&BV_SessionID=@@@@1369331001.1213743438@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadeegimhldicgfkceghdgngdgnn.0)

Strommer
18-06-2008, 11:10 AM
Quite a few new laptops/PCs have no XP support at all, so they may be stuck with Vista unless someone has hacked together some drivers for that particular model of laptop.


[A bit OT]

I thought WinXP, or any OS, could be installed on any laptop or pc as long as it has adequate specs. Is it true that some laptops will only run Vista? Methinks I am misunderstanding something here...

At the moment I have no intention of buying a new laptop, but I have thought if I did, and did not like Vista (if it could not run some of my programs) that I could reformat the hd and install XP. Correct?

Speedy Gonzales
18-06-2008, 11:14 AM
You could probably install any version of Windows, you want. Thats not the problem

The prob is the drivers. No drivers, nothing will work (LAN/Sound/Wireless etc).

After you install another version of Windows

I think Autechre's comments meant the lack of drivers, not that newer laptops wont work with XP

jwil1
18-06-2008, 11:20 AM
You could set up a VM of XP/2000 (if they had enough $ to get a license) and run that on top of Vista. If they don't need the graphics abilities (VPC only gives 4MB of graphics memory) then it may be a good workaround.

Run the VM on startup, make it full-screen and no-one will know ;)

Strommer
18-06-2008, 11:27 AM
I think Autechre's comments meant the lack of drivers, not that newer laptops wont work with XP

:confused: I thought drivers can be downloaded or just reinstalled from program disks. Or maybe newer motherboards are not compatible with older programs / their drivers? Sorry, still confused here.

Speedy Gonzales
18-06-2008, 11:37 AM
Well you can try drivers from anywhere. It doesnt mean they'll work after.

They have to be compatible with the hardware.

Well obviously if the laptop had / has vista on it, it probably doesnt have drivers for any other version of Windows. You'll have to look for them.

Its better to find drivers (from the manufacturer's site), not any old site (especially the Windowsupdate site), which can totally screw a system up.

Its got nothing to do with programs (since programs dont use drivers).

Drivers are needed so whatever is onboard works properly.

Program disks like what??

Thebananamonkey
18-06-2008, 12:03 PM
It takes a while to get used to any OS, and a new OS is always going to take up more resources. If you can't accept this, then maybe Win3.0 is for you?

Turn off UAC first thing, and that will get rid of the annoying pop-ups. A lappy with 3GB RAM should be running vista fine. My GF's lappy has 1GB and it's perfectly usable.

Vista takes a little while to get used to, and if you're doing a lot of networking, then it can get annoying at times. But if you're not constantly fiddling with the OS, and just using it, then it's perfectly usable.

It would probably take them less time to get used to it than it would for you to install/update XP on them.

autechre
19-06-2008, 09:33 AM
:confused: I thought drivers can be downloaded or just reinstalled from program disks. Or maybe newer motherboards are not compatible with older programs / their drivers? Sorry, still confused here.

You can download the drivers only if the manufacturer has produced some or there are some compatible ones available elsewhere.
It is possible that these new laptops do not have any XP drivers at all.

Thus if you install XP, some things may work with the default drivers XP installs, but you wont get some things like sound working as there are no drivers for it.

I had a look at the HP & Toshiba site and the XP drivers are lacking a lot of the Vista equivalents such as sound & graphics - kind of the important ones. These may be able to be obtained elsewhere though - the RealTek audio drivers are pretty common.

beeswax34
19-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Add more RAM, turn off UAC and un-install programs such as Norton, Roxio and Acrobat Reader and install light-weight and better alternatives.

That would fix about 98% of your friends problems.

kenj
19-06-2008, 03:17 PM
I have been a bit anti Vista and removed the upgrade from XP that I had bought and installed in 2007. As I use Acronis, I swapped a few times but always ended up going back to XP.

However, last Sunday I bought a new lappy with 2GB ram and Vista Ultimate loaded. After a few days now, I have no desire to muck around reverting to XP.

Vista works really well. Extremely stable. Better that XP was on my old core duo machine. With regards Vista I think my previous lappy was underpowered and did not have all the proper drivers.

What some of the other members say about giving it a go is so true. Your friends may be quite surprised.

Converted Ken... :thumbs:

emmerc
23-06-2008, 12:53 AM
I really do appreciate your so kind attention and all the advice you have given to me this time. I knew you would not disappoint me and you didn't!

With the ideas you have given me I will help some of my friends to go through Vista in a more better way. One of my friends decided to return his Vista machine (HP TX1000) and refurbish his XP machine. Two others opted for Ubuntu Linux in full and unique clean installation (Toshiba L355-S8711 and Acer AS6920-6621) Others want to try shutting some services down, replacing software (Norton by AVG and so on) and cleaning the machines of some bounded software and then give a second chance to Vista.

Thanks a lot Fellows!

Hitech
23-06-2008, 08:35 AM
I am running vista ultimate and all is good, I have turned off the UAC but im unsure on how to stop the pop up that says windows security alerts i find it very annoying and would like to disable this pop up in the bottom right hand corner could you please advise me on how to disable it please.

Speedy Gonzales
23-06-2008, 09:08 AM
I am running vista ultimate and all is good, I have turned off the UAC but im unsure on how to stop the pop up that says windows security alerts i find it very annoying and would like to disable this pop up in the bottom right hand corner could you please advise me on how to disable it please.

Go here (http://lifehacker.com/software/vista/windows-vista-tip--disable-annoying-need-your-permission-to-continue-prompts-230866.php)

Hitech
23-06-2008, 09:25 AM
Thanks speedy i followed the link and the pop up is now disabled many thanks for your help again.

emmerc
18-07-2008, 09:47 PM
Hello Friends,you all have been really polite and helpful with your answers and advices. Let me give you an update.

The user of the Acer AS6920-6621 is working with XP SP2, some features does not do well but the user is happy. In some weeks he will replace it with his old Acer tablet PC running XP, once it is refurbished by ACER services. Another two of my friends are been patience with Vista in brand new Lenovo machines (sorry I forgot the models!), another one is really euphoric seen how in a brand new Toshiba Satellite A205-S5852 applications do not run but fly with Ubuntu Linux 8.04 (so far all works out of the box!) and even another one is willing to give Vista a try with a brand new Toshiba Satellite P305-S8822 (once some services are unactivated according to your advice). So users are satisfied, so far. I think that is the idea. Once again, thanks a lot Friends for your wise advice.

pcuser7895
18-07-2008, 11:02 PM
if they think its slow then one way is to turn off all the eye candy,
it still does what vista does but it just looks different.
change it to win xp style it still looks great and the graphics card wont have to work so hard.
( i think its the graphics card slowing things down because they maybe are not "for vista" even though the macj\hines only support it

pcuser7895
18-07-2008, 11:03 PM
sorry, i mean machines

emmerc
23-07-2008, 03:32 AM
Today (July 22-2008) I understood a little bit about why some people really hates Vista. A friend on mine asked me to reinstall Vista in a HP Pavilion TX 1000 with the help of the provided System Recovery DVD and let me tell you it took six (yes! 6!) hours and finally the machine gave a irrecoverable error so we finally decided to format the HDD with the help of an Ubuntu Live CD, return the machine to HP! and forget the whole thing! Wow! What a waste of time!

stormdragon
23-07-2008, 12:10 PM
Today (July 22-2008) I understood a little bit about why some people really hates Vista. A friend on mine asked me to reinstall Vista in a HP Pavilion TX 1000 with the help of the provided System Recovery DVD and let me tell you it took six (yes! 6!) hours and finally the machine gave a irrecoverable error so we finally decided to format the HDD with the help of an Ubuntu Live CD, return the machine to HP! and forget the whole thing! Wow! What a waste of time!

Vista is slower to install compared to XP as its installing a lot more. The HP disks you used would also have included programmes from HP. Vista hasn't been anywhere that slow for the installs I've undertaken though.

emmerc
23-07-2008, 02:53 PM
You are right stormdragon! It has a lot of HP programs and additionally this machine (HP Pavilion TX1000) has an issue about heat. I took it to a room with aircon and put a fan on its tail and the installation seems to be working. Let me tell you I will not buy this machine for me. It comes with a software called FBI Gui manager that takes over the installation and ties it to the HP software installation and then takes a loooooong time (hours) and re stars the machine dozens and dozens of times!

Roger Hunt
23-07-2008, 09:03 PM
if its the UAC that annoys go to regedit hkey-local-machine\software\Microsoft\windows\current version\policies\system. set consent prompt behavior Admin to 0 Default is 2

Roger Hunt
23-07-2008, 09:18 PM
instead of turning UAC off just turn the prompt off go to regedit hkey-local-machine\software\Microsoft\windows\current version\policies\system. set consent prompt behavior Admin to 0 Default is 2

emmerc
24-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Let me tell you friends that my ordeal with the HP Pavilion TX1000 Vista re installation finally ended. After expending more that six hours seen how the FBI Gui manager restarted the machine over and over, I did a google search and found a trick.
I did a forced shut down (unplugged power and took away battery) then I restarted the machine in safe mode, went to msconfig and took the FBI Gui out of the startup section (disguised as HP installer), went to administrative tools, computer management, created a partition (by this time the installer just had created a 24 GB partition and left the rest of the 160 gb HDD as not assigned) and then I copied the folder of the HP installer on the new partition. Well I also expanded C up to 60 Gb and left the new partition with the rest. I do not understand why Vista insists in giving to C so little room when it installs. After you install your applications your are left with the annoying task of enlarging your C partition. Anyhow, when I restarted the machine, the FBI Gui manager was not active anymore. Some utilities were not installed but it was a mater of going to hp.support and download all the stuff and install them. Now this machine is going back to the provider because the owner does not wish to see it any more.

emmerc
21-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Hello Friends, These last two weeks (August 11-21) I had two nice experiences with Windows Vista. The first was a Dell Vostro 1400 (just 1GB DDR2 667 ram!) I had to reinstall everything. The machine was mad so I took an Ubuntu Live CD to format the HDD (Just 1 minute to format 120GB! with Gparted) Then I installed Vista Home Basic in just 20 minutes! (Wow!) The drivers and applications took abut 1 1/2 hour and it was done! The machine was up and running, ready for office duties.

The second experience was with my brand new Toshiba P305-S8832 (Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GHz, 3 GB DDR2 667 Two HDD 250GB & 160GB). I tried all the possible tricks with WinXp and was not possible to get the machine working well. Then I went back and reinstall Vista Home Premium. It took 3 hours to install the OS and all the drivers and applications. Then I turned off UAC and dozens of other services and uninstalled all the unnecessary bounded programs. I replaced Norton with AVG, replaced Office 2007 with Office 2003, installed Firefox, Thunderbird BibleWorks 6 and 7 and some other packages and so far the machine is flying like rocket and the applications are all running nicely.
I won't say that now I love Vista, I would say that all the advices you gave me plus all the experience I got helping others to deal with Vista has helped me to get my machine running nicely and smooth.

beama
22-08-2008, 06:49 AM
I once was a vista knocker but things are changing. With al little turning (uac, themes in fact everthing metion here plus a few more) Vista is quite good.

It does need a higher spec machine at least 1 gig ram.

I believe simular aurguements were used against Xp when it was first released People dont like change (yes even me)

emmerc
07-10-2008, 10:28 AM
Hello Wise friends, here I am once again looking for your advice. Some of my friends, and even me, who are somehow giving Vista a time, are wondering what will happen with the machines we are acquiring today with Vista once Windows 7 comes out? I image that Windows 7 will not come free for those who have Vista machines, that's an issue. The heaviest concern, however, has to do with compatibility and capability of nowadays new machines to run Windows 7 with efficiency. Well, I will wait for your responses and suggestions.

SolMiester
07-10-2008, 10:34 AM
W7 isnt even released yet and wont be for some time. There is little to be gained from speculation however it has to be said, todays laptop are very powerful and I cant imagine an O/S that wouldnt be able to run on todays equipment.

gary67
07-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Vista is still able to talk to XP so why shouldn't Vista and W7 be the same and a lot of XP machines can run Vista reasonably well

jwil1
07-10-2008, 05:03 PM
I would think that anything that runs Vista well (ie dual/quad core, 2GB+ RAM) would run 7 well.

sroby
08-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Just one more thing..

Download & install Vista SP1
It fixes quite a few Vista issues.

wratterus
08-10-2008, 08:49 AM
Download & install Vista SP1
It fixes quite a few Vista issues.

That's the understatement of the month. :)

SP1 turns Vista from an annoying, slow, crashing behemoth to a perfectly usable OS.

kersonan
08-10-2008, 10:49 AM
One of the major things with Vista that I notice is that people seem really built up to hate on it without actually ever using it, When it released it came with a ton of hate from XP users and that put a lot of people off.

MS did a test where they showed people vista but called it something else, people that rated vista low rated the renamed one much higher

Link here(caution contains marketing fluff from MS)
http://www.geekologie.com/2008/07/windows_mojave_vista_in_disgui.php

I find Vista pretty solid once you get used to it, and remove some of the nagging things it has.

pcuser42
08-10-2008, 11:11 AM
The best thing to do with a new OS is to ignore all the reviews and criticism and try it for yourself.

JJJJJ
08-10-2008, 05:38 PM
I know nothing about Vista , but would you like a sarcastic comment?

pcuser42
09-10-2008, 06:41 AM
If you know nothing about it, then you can't really comment about it. ;)

emmerc
02-02-2009, 02:47 AM
Hello Wise Friends!

Let me give you an update of my Toshiba Satellite P305-S8832 (Core 2 Duo 2GHz, 3GB ram 667, 2 SATA HDD 160GB + 250GB). Windows Vista SP2 is running nicely in this machine. I feel almost scare of writing this note but I went crazy and I installed SP2 beta of Vista on this machine and it is working flawlessly! Sure, I turned off several services -really a bunch!- I use free AVG, Firefox, Thunderbird, turned off Aero and indexing, etc.... The machine goes from cool off to the login window in 40 seconds and everything is working really well! I hope I do not get a blue screen after writing this post (ja ja ja!!!...) I think I have domesticated Vista in my machine! I have used this machine for more than 6 months and no complains whatsoever! I really like -love-this big machine. I use it as Desktop replacement.

pcuser42
02-02-2009, 07:29 AM
Turned off Aero? What kind of freak are you? :D

pctek
02-02-2009, 08:34 AM
These machines are a nightmare for their owners because of vista.

Then they should have bough XP laptops in the first place - you can you know.
But no doubt they went to the nearest toaster shop and took the first thing the saleman handed to them.

Secondly you can tweak Vista. Leaving it as is and with all the bundled bloat is usually why they don't like it.

Sweep
02-02-2009, 08:51 AM
I installed SP2 for Vista 64 bit ultimate yesterday.

Does not seem to be much different to the SP1 or if there is it is not immediately obvious.

I have read what the SP2 is supposed to do BTW.

I would not recommend everyone does it only because it is still in beta.

emmerc
02-02-2009, 11:49 AM
Turned off Aero? What kind of freak are you? :D

Ja ja ja!!!... No problem Wise friends! No problem! Aero is not the great thing. I have a little Asus eee PC 900 with 20GB in SSD and 2GB of ram DDR2667, a humble Celeron processor and a humble intel GMA and this machine runs Ubuntu-eee with compiz-fusion at full throttle! .

I do not want to initiate a storm but if Vista is about Aero then it is very sad. With Linux you can see any humble and even rotten machine with a middle range ATI or Nvidia video chip running compiz-fusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiz-Fusion) then you will see a real party (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ) a real extravaganza of color and effects in such a level you will not see on a Windows box. And that rotten box still will be able to run smoothly all its applications.

No friends I do not use Vista because of aero, I have two laptops running ubuntu and there I may see real eye-candy, breath-taking visual effects. I run Vista because there are software packages I need to run on Windows.

Additionally, I am not a linux evangelist nor a windows detractor because I think is not about OS's it is about what you need. I have used Windows since Win 3.1 back in the early 80's and I enjoy my Linux machines and there are a couple of things I like in OSX and MAc machines. I know all OS's have their ups and downs, pluses and minuses and their limits. I know well that when you get a blue screen on Windows you are probably fried and left to your own devices. I know by personal experience that in linux you to can be able to fix the most messy system (http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html). I have installed and used linux in machines with broken HDD and broken ram memory (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=410047&highlight=emmerc)

Yes, maybe I am somehow "freak," that's not a problem :-)