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View Full Version : Would you buy a gas heater ?



Digby
10-05-2008, 09:17 PM
Hi Guys

With winter coming up and because I have a large lounge in a rented house I am thinking of buying a gas heater.

But the thought of a gas cylinder inside my house has always worried me.

What do you think ?

bob_doe_nz
10-05-2008, 09:48 PM
We got one

Takes a while to heat up the room

You need to keep the door partially open (Carbon monoxide & condensation)

You need to keep it a certain distance from everything (fire hazard)

Can't really maintain a steady temp.

But you can toast bread with it :drool

Jester
10-05-2008, 09:54 PM
We've used one for years, it hasn't blown up yet!

We find it heats the whole home (200m2) very well, and whilst condensation can be an issue a dehumidifier takes care of that. We leave it on the low setting when needed, our house is pretty well insulated though, it could be less effective in a draughty house.

I'm not sure they produce Carbon Monoxide though .... I was aware of Carbon Dioxide and possibly Nitrogen Dioxide.

Roscoe
10-05-2008, 10:12 PM
Gas heating is great!

The amount of heat put out by a gas heater is, in many cases, hotter than electric heaters. It seems that an electric heater cannot handle the amperage required to put out the same amount of heat.

If you are worried about a gas cylinder (concerned about it exploding?) then you should also be worried about that new marvel, electricity. It too, can kill. It just manifests itself in different ways. Your electrical wiring can cause a fire, perhaps while you sleep, and so bye bye, Digby. But it's not all that likely.

So not to worry. It's safe. The connections between the cylinder and heater are of a safe standard, much safer than the one on your barbeque. They are designed not to leak. You might notice that the connector on your heater cylinder is different from your barbeque cylinder. They are made differently purposely so that they cannot be interchanged. The barbeque connections do not have to be of the same high standard.

Besides, when did you hear of an accident with a gas cylinder? Can't say I ever have.

The great thing about a portable gas heater is that you can have it in any room, but just remember not to use it in the bedroom when you are there. Carbon monoxide is quick and peaceful, but still deadly. Use it to warm your bedroom before you go to bed.

Personally, I like to take a hot woman to bed.:blush:

Listen to Bob. He knows.;)

Nomad
10-05-2008, 10:18 PM
Just a related question. NZ homes are not insulated thou that may change if they redo the law, I heard they may require renovations and new houses to have double glazed windows and heat insulation.

But for now .. if the house is not rented, so you can do anything, what is the most effective heating method and efficient? Are heat pumps good for the main room and little heaters for the bedrooms? Althou a HRV system routed via the whole house would be nice but ....

BobM
10-05-2008, 10:38 PM
Roughly every kg of LPG that you burn, puts one litre of moisture into the room, unless you get one that is flued to the outside of the house.

beeswax34
10-05-2008, 10:49 PM
We have one and it heats up the house wonderfully.

Just keep the dehumidifier on when you're running the heater and for about 30mins after you've turned it off.

Very safe and economical.

PaulD
10-05-2008, 11:23 PM
So not to worry. It's safe. The connections between the cylinder and heater are of a safe standard, much safer than the one on your barbeque. They are designed not to leak. You might notice that the connector on your heater cylinder is different from your barbeque cylinder. They are made differently purposely so that they cannot be interchanged. The barbeque connections do not have to be of the same high standard.

Besides, when did you hear of an accident with a gas cylinder? Can't say I ever have.



Heater connections are not necessarily different. Testing with soapy water is still advised.

Old news http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/news-events/archives/media-releases/2004/LPGMediaReleaseFAQS20040817.doc

"Over the eight years of data, there have been 44 reportable accidents involving LPG cabinet heaters in domestic dwellings, i.e. an average of 5.5 per year, or 1.7 accidents per year per 100,000 households. These have resulted in 3 fatalities (this includes the two children in Hastings in August 2003) and 23 injuries related to reportable accidents. These numbers equate to 0.9 injuries per year per 100,000 households."

Greg
11-05-2008, 05:42 AM
Those stats by Paul are higher than I woudl've thought.

Roscoe, I use the same cylinder for my heater and for my bbq.

Digby - I love having the gas heater - it's real convenient being able to move it around if needed, and as I mentioned, in the summer the cylinder goes onto the barbie.

But if I was living in a colder place I'd consider some other form of heating.

pctek
11-05-2008, 08:35 AM
I had one once. Sold it. Wouldn't have another. They smell, they produce masses of condensation - and why should you have to have a dehumidfier? That kind of cancels out any savings you supposedly make by not using an electric heater.

And last time I asked someone who owns one he said its now $28 to fill it.

Bantu
11-05-2008, 09:01 AM
We had one also when we lived in Wellington and got rid of it. We did not find it cheap to run and normally when the gas bottle ran out it was raining and cold so you have to go find a garage open to fill it.

It smelled bad and as we did not have a dehumidifyer we had to have a window open near it which sort of defeated the purpose of heating to some extent.

We now have Gas in this house from the street and have had a Rinnai Gas wall heater installed which vents outside. Admittedly more expensive in the first instance but it heats much better than the Gas Bottle Heater, no need for open windows and no smells. The best thing we have ever invested in.

BobM
11-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Hi Bantu,
which model of Rinnai did you get? Brick or wood wall outside house?
cheers BobM.

Deathwish
11-05-2008, 07:26 PM
I had one once. Sold it. Wouldn't have another. They smell, they produce masses of condensation - and why should you have to have a dehumidfier? That kind of cancels out any savings you supposedly make by not using an electric heater.


They stink, thats my biggest problem with them - our whole family has this problem but I guess certain people must be more sensitive to it than others since most people I meet don't have an issue at all with them. I can't be in a room with one for more than an hour without feeling like I got a 'KO' style headache.

The prices to refill have risen in only ~3 months by $7 (or thats what I think I heard my mum say). If that is true, that is quite significant. As Pctek says, having to run the dehumidifier to offset the extra condensation pretty much kills whatever savings you have made - running dehumidifier more means replacing filter more often + more electricity charges + more noise.

robbyp
11-05-2008, 11:13 PM
Hi Guys

With winter coming up and because I have a large lounge in a rented house I am thinking of buying a gas heater.

But the thought of a gas cylinder inside my house has always worried me.

What do you think ?

Condensation, and the toxic gases in the LPG are what I would be concerned about. Renting is hard, in that you can't install your own heater into the building. If you owned the property, I would recommend a heatpump, and or a pellet heater. ELse you could ask you the owner to install a decent heater, especially if it isn't insulated. They do have to meet certain standards, so the house must be comfortable to live in. If I was renting, I would probably use small spot electric radient heaters in the areas that I was using.

Sweep
11-05-2008, 11:47 PM
Hi Guys

With winter coming up and because I have a large lounge in a rented house I am thinking of buying a gas heater.

But the thought of a gas cylinder inside my house has always worried me.

What do you think ?

Digby,

Do you make decisons on a daily basis according to what PressF1 members think?

It is not that all PressF1 members have no clues as quite a few do have.

Should it be time for me to do a daily poll on whether I should get out of bed and go to work the next day?

If you are worried about a gas cylinder then I would suggest you simply do not have one in your rented place. I have two gas cylinders. One for a BBQ and the other for a gas heater. One is in the house and the other is in my garage.

If I make the wrong choice then this will be my choice. Whatever decision I make I will live or possibly die. I am going to die some time but at this time I do not know when. Not that this worries me a lot.

I will die but I could be electrocuted due to misadveture by trying to take a PSU apart.

I may die due to some dopey driver on the road.

SurferJoe46
12-05-2008, 04:28 AM
I know that youse guys get a little tired of how it is in the US...but we have distinct laws concerning propane tanks, residences and heating with them.

It is illegal to bring a propane cylinder larger than 1 qt..approx 1 liter...into a building that has humans in it. Period.

I know also that the US law is a little strong by NZ standards....but there are always stupid people in places where one would not expect them.

Besides the carbon monoxide problem..which the heaters make in copious amounts, there's the fire danger of tipping one over and then liquid propane swamps the regulator..and some cannot handle the liquid part and they throw flames and fire out at nearby furnishings...curtains, drapes, bedding, furniture..etc.

If you lose a domicile from the use of an "outdoor-only" rated device that you bring inside for whatever logical (to you) reason, you may not have insurance protection for your act and have to suffer the loss your self.

However..to digress..and you KNEW that I would finally digress..huh!

............ the ongoing theme here that I see pretty much constantly is this:

INSULATION...or lack of it in NZ homes. It seems to cause quite a bit of comment on what type of heating is best..when the reality is "why isn't my home able to hold heat/cold?"

"Twin-dows" and triple-paned glass are the norm here, as well as R-18 minimum on all outside walls. This has been in effect for all new builds since about the late 1960's or so..and now they are even strict about it all for remodels and retrofits.

My mobile..if memory serves at all..is R-22 walls, R-30 roof, R-18 floor.

Air pressure tests indicate that I have less than 1% leakage..and that is exceptionally good! Most home qualify at 5-6% leakage. The energy companies (again, US) provide these tests free to homes once a year.

I have triple-paned windows and solid 36" foam between the ceiling and roof.

My home is typical even though it is a mobile home. Stick-builds are the same with the exception of the floor which can drop to about R-6 or R-8.

For what it's worth...I just bet youse guys could make a lot of inroads into insulation....maybe some of yez could open a FOAM-INJECTION service to homes/homeowners. I bet it would catch on pretty good!

Ibetchem! :thumbs:

Bantu
12-05-2008, 06:17 AM
Hi Bantu,
which model of Rinnai did you get? Brick or wood wall outside house?
cheers BobM.

Rinnai EnergySaver 557FTR (maybe 5-6 years ago)
Brick outside.

They installed it very tidy job indeed.
Cut a neat hole in the brick and through the wall and it has a vent to the outside.

We had the same in one house in Wellington.

R2x1
12-05-2008, 08:06 AM
When the difference between the inside and outside temperature seldom exceeds 10 degrees, insulation is not going to be very cost effective. It is more efficient to put the people in a climate suited to people, and save the extreme temperature zones for sheep which have their own arrangements for temperature adaptability.

Arnie
12-05-2008, 09:19 AM
A lot of if not most countries ban these unflued heaters, some allow them but only in a room with a minimum cubic content the total I am not sure of.

They are not good for ones health especially if asthma runs in the family.

SurferJoe46
12-05-2008, 10:19 AM
When the difference between the inside and outside temperature seldom exceeds 10 degrees, insulation is not going to be very cost effective. It is more efficient to put the people in a climate suited to people, and save the extreme temperature zones for sheep which have their own arrangements for temperature adaptability.

Would you so kindly start up a collection for the "Move Joe & Family To Hawaii Relocation Program" then?

Use some really BIG containers and put them in all the markets and stores with a picture of me and my family on a little poster...saying: "They need to be warm again" and only collect paper money or coins of whatever higher denominations youse guys have.

rob_on_guitar
12-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Gas heaters are ok short term, long term the gas is best spent on a bbq.
We had one for about 2 years and we found our lounge was too big for it to comfortably heat (It was a huge room though), now heat pump is in so we sold ours for $10.

Kept the gas for the bbq.

R2x1
12-05-2008, 10:54 AM
Well, as soon as the collection for R2 and Dragons to Hawaii each weekend is fully subscribed, your sign will go up. (There have been a few suggestions for alternative places I could go, but that would be overdoing the heating a bit.)

If any keen eyed PF1'er has spotted a gas heater with one small heating element and the usual size for the other two so the place won't cook us, I might get one. Most heaters seem to have 3 equal size burners, and the low setting is still too high for this place. Opening a window to lower the temperature doesn't seem very cost effective.

Thomas01
12-05-2008, 02:28 PM
In the 1930 to 1950s there were a lot of gas heaters around - all running on mains gas. The strange thing is that nowadays people recommend dehumidifiers if using a gas heater, whereas we found that the appalling fumes and awful air they used to produce could be reduced by having an open basin of water in front of them.
They still produced awful head aches even though equipped with flumes or chimneys. There were obviously no portables - that idiotic idea came in much later.
I suggest if you have a portable gas heater then either dump it or use it outside and no where else.
Tom

Richard
12-05-2008, 02:40 PM
No.

tweak'e
12-05-2008, 03:42 PM
had thought of getting one simply for backup. i don't like useing them due to haveing to have ventalition for them. the $$$ might be better spend on a wood burner.

R2x1
13-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Gas heaters are a great deal kinder to the neighbours than a woodburner. Damn smog generators.

pctek
13-05-2008, 10:48 AM
woodburner. Damn smog generators.

I disagree.
Smoke out the chimney is caused mainly by burning filthy coal.
And by burning wet wood and/or not opening the flues up properly, so it smoulders. Woodburners now are adjusted so you can't turn them down too much to prevent that sort of thing.

We see filthy smoke all over from the neighbours chimnets, ours has none coming out.

wratterus
13-05-2008, 10:50 AM
I disagree.
Smoke out the chimney is caused mainly by burning filthy coal.
And by burning wet wood and/or not opening the flues up properly, so it smoulders. Woodburners now are adjusted so you can't turn them down too much to prevent that sort of thing.

We see filthy smoke all over from the neighbours chimnets, ours has none coming out.

Exactly.

R2x1
13-05-2008, 02:08 PM
Actually, pctek your chimney has never caused any bother here, ;) but some of the slightly closer ones may well graduate to getting capped some night.

Zippity
13-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Getting rid of our gas bottled heater last winter was the best thing we ever did. We should have done it years ago :)

The best thing about the gas heater was the bottle - great for the outside BBQ :D

The new Daikin Inverter that replaced it was a great investment.

No more condensation, no more stinkin' gas fumes................

pctek
13-05-2008, 03:33 PM
but some of the slightly closer ones may well graduate to getting capped some night.

BAN Coal.

R2x1
13-05-2008, 11:18 PM
Agreed, unless it is for controlled combustion burners, not those toy boxes.

BobM
14-05-2008, 04:40 PM
Hi Bantu. Wasn't to sure about the hole through the brick, but the guy that fits them said ''piece of cake''! He just cut an 80mm hole for the flue and a 30mm for the LPG pipe. The flue exhaust on the out side just looks like a 10cm chrome mushroom on the brick. He started at 8.00am and finished at 11.30am. Got the smaller version of yours, the RHFE-431FTR. Certainly puts the heat into the house. Didn't know about brick. Thanks for your pointer.

BobM.