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DeSade
20-04-2008, 02:11 PM
I am looking into this card right now along with the GTX and some questions have come up.

I have been advised that I need a 600w+ PSU for this card but I am skeptical that they just want to sell me something else. Can anyone confirm this?

I currently have a 500w PSU that isn't very old and would rather not replace it yet.

I would also like to know what plug the GX2 and GTX use, and if a retail card would come with a molex adapter or if I would have to purchase separately and if its available separately or at all.

SPARTAN 860
20-04-2008, 03:45 PM
YOu do need a 600 watt PSU, the new cards are very power intensive, and unless you want your system to get a BSOD halfway through a game, you need to get a better psu. 750 Watt or higher are best.

DeSade
20-04-2008, 06:40 PM
Damn I was afraid of that.
Thanks for the info

Would this one be ok?
Is it a good brand?

http://www.icute.com.tw/english/AP1000w.htm

stormdragon
20-04-2008, 07:08 PM
Would this one be ok?
Is it a good brand?

http://www.icute.com.tw/english/AP1000w.htm

Icute ain't great for PSU's

In my opinion these 3 brands are among the best:

Coolmaster
Silverstone
Enermax

SPARTAN 860
20-04-2008, 07:13 PM
iCute, just look at the i in front of them. They are trying to be mackish. Anything that tries to borrow another's idea (which isn't even good) usually isn't good. Go for coolmaster.

DeSade
20-04-2008, 10:38 PM
I would have to go down to a 700w to even consider a coolmaster, too expensive.

How about this one
http://www.playtech.co.nz/product.php?action=showdetail&id=3432

Pretty much top end of my budget along with the card, I never expected to have to buy a PSU.

SolMiester
21-04-2008, 09:27 AM
Desade, what LCD are you going to have with this card?

autechre
21-04-2008, 09:28 AM
I don't know if you meant to post the 1KW PSU, but thats a little over the top.

One of these 650W (http://www.playtech.co.nz/product.php?action=showdetail&id=2980) ones will do the job.

pctek
21-04-2008, 09:56 AM
I would have to go down to a 700w to even consider a coolmaster, .

What makes you think that isn't enough? Most people wildly overestimate:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 09:58 AM
But if I were you, instead of getting a twin GPU card, I'd just get 2 8800GT's. They cost less, and they work better. Or so I've heard anyway. The twin GPU cards tend to be a little bit gimmicky. And it's strange that they even bothered releasing it IMO, given how hard they're pushing SLi

And with the extra money left over from the 9800 you could invest in a better PSU.

SolMiester
21-04-2008, 10:08 AM
I think unless he has a 1080p LCD, the 9800GX2 is well over the top! This card is built for users of 30" monitors!

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 10:28 AM
But if I were you, instead of getting a twin GPU card, I'd just get 2 8800GT's. They cost less, and they work better. Or so I've heard anyway. The twin GPU cards tend to be a little bit gimmicky. And it's strange that they even bothered releasing it IMO, given how hard they're pushing SLi

And with the extra money left over from the 9800 you could invest in a better PSU.

ROTFL, If you call the very top performance "gimmicky" then I suppose it is, I think you are getting confused with the cheaper Radeon 3870X2.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=5

The 9800GX2 will usually beat the 8800GT and 9600GT in SLI. The 2x8800GT's can set you back around $650 and the 9800GX2 $860 ish, so if you don't have a SLI board the GX2 can be a reasonable option price wise, and it will be a little quieter and cooler venting externally.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 10:54 AM
True SLI is not an option for me, my main games choke on it so I need Good performance without a true SLI option.

Hence GX2, I considered the GTX but 512 memory is a little low, I want to upgrade this time to last a while.

Thats why I also posted a 1000w PSU don't want to have to upgrade again for a while.

Not using huge resolutions but the games I play are very demanding on the graphics, finally for once I want the best :)

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 10:54 AM
ROTFL, If you call the very top performance "gimmicky" then I suppose it is, I think you are getting confused with the cheaper Radeon 3870X2.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=5

The 9800GX2 will usually beat the 8800GT and 9600GT in SLI. The 2x8800GT's can set you back around $650 and the 9800GX2 $860 ish, so if you don't have a SLI board the GX2 can be a reasonable option price wise, and it will be a little quieter and cooler venting externally.

Saving an extra $210, and only losing out on performance marginally, I think I'd go with the SLi myself. And you could get a good SLi MoBo with the price difference.

I just think it's OTT, and for most people, unjustifiable performance and $$$ wise

memphis
21-04-2008, 11:33 AM
what's your system specks going to be with this new card?

DeSade
21-04-2008, 11:34 AM
This is all I have access too right now

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 4/18/2008, 07:51:07
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
Memory: 2048MB RAM
Page File: 427MB used, 3512MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

DeSade
21-04-2008, 11:35 AM
I have the rest of the Dxdiag if you need it.

CPU/Mainboard/Ram is next upgrade in a few months

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 11:47 AM
Saving an extra $210, and only losing out on performance marginally, I think I'd go with the SLi myself. And you could get a good SLi MoBo with the price difference.

I just think it's OTT, and for most people, unjustifiable performance and $$$ wise


A 9800GX2 is technically SLI (single card) as we know, but it is quieter and they vent externally over say 2x8800GT's. For me I am 100% the opposite as I hate CF and SLI due to noise, power and heat. At least the 9800GX2 "lowers" a few multigpu issues, also slightly better performance.

2x8800GTS (G92) would probably be about the same performance, vent externally and slightly more noisy, they would also be about the same price, so the 9800GX2 is actually priced about right atm and a very viable option.

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 11:59 AM
A 9800GX2 is technically SLI (single card) as we know, but it is quieter and they vent externally over say 2x8800GT's. For me I am 100% the opposite as I hate CF and SLI due to noise, power and heat. At least the 9800GX2 "lowers" a few multigpu issues, also slightly better performance.

2x8800GTS (G92) would probably be about the same performance, vent externally and slightly more noisy, they would also be about the same price, so the 9800GX2 is actually priced about right atm and a very viable option.

Cheapest prices at ascent:

Asus EN8800GT = $367.58

MSI 9800GX2 = $998.66

You were saying?

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Cheapest prices at ascent:

Asus EN8800GT = $367.58

MSI 9800GX2 = $998.66

You were saying?

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/features/131627.20080416.GeForce-9-series-shoot-out/page3/

2x8800GT does NOT equal th performance of 1x 9800GX2

2x8800GTS(G92) $480 ($880)= the performance of 1x 9800GX2 (roughly)


Also Ascent is hellishly expensive, you can pick up 9800GX2 for around $860 incl from several vendors.

You were saying?

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 12:16 PM
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/features/131627.20080416.GeForce-9-series-shoot-out/page3/

2x8800GT does NOT equal th performance of 1x 9800GX2

2x8800GTS(G92) $480 ($880)= the performance of 1x 9800GX2 (roughly)


Also Ascent is hellishly expensive, you can pick up 9800GX2 for around $860 incl from several vendors.

You were saying?

OK then. Pricespy.

The cheapest 9800GX2 is $850.

The Cheapest 8800GT is $286.88...

You could get 3x SLi for that...

Or 2x SLi GTS $370.15.

Or 2x SLi GTX $478.13 for only a bit more...

Now... what was who saying?

DeSade
21-04-2008, 12:23 PM
This war is quite interesting but is getting away from my post heh

I cannot use True SLI due to several issues so the 8800 option is out.
From the reviews I have read and benchmarks I have seen the GX2 is the best option for me.

With this option and I suspect any other option I need a new PSU.
My price limit is $300ish
I need enough grunt in the PSU to power and be compatible with this GX2
Also need it to cover mainboard cpu ram upgrade to come, probably a intel quad core, maybe amd, not sure about this right now.

So based on this what PSU do you recommend.

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 12:25 PM
OK then. Pricespy.

The cheapest 9800GX2 is $850.

The Cheapest 8800GT is $286.88...

You could get 3x SLi for that...

Or 2x SLi GTS $370.15.

Or 2x SLi GTX $478.13 for only a bit more...

Now... what was who saying?


2x8800GT does NOT equal the same performance, so not sure why you are pushing this point?, sure they are great value (I have one myself).


lol the 8800GTS price you are quoting is the old 8800GTS (G80) $370 not the G92, no where NEAR the performance. The G92 GTS lowest price is $437 according to price spy.

The 8800GTS (G92) 512MB is only 1-5% slower than a 8800GTX, and price spy said $499, so its not a option but nice try :).

2x9800GTX will be slightly faster than a 9800GX2 but only slightly and will cost about $100 more anyway.

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 12:29 PM
I just don't think it's worth paying that money for a card that frankly isn't worth it. It's good, don't get me wrong, and if someone gave me one I'd probably wet myself.

But for my own money I'd go SLi all the way. And I probably wouldn't ever see a real difference. I just don't want to see someone go out and find that they paid a tear-bringing sum for a card that isn't as good as it probably should be

Especially not for the sake of future-proofing, which is a myth.

[Edit] Just whatever you do, read about it (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-9800-gx2-review,1792.html)

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 12:37 PM
I just don't think it's worth paying that money for a card that frankly isn't worth it. It's good, don't get me wrong, and if someone gave me one I'd probably wet myself.

But for my own money I'd go SLi all the way. And I probably wouldn't ever see a real difference. I just don't want to see someone go out and find that they paid a tear-bringing sum for a card that isn't as good as it probably should be

Especially not for the sake of future-proofing, which is a myth.

Do you understand that the closest SLI option to match the "performance" of a 9800GX2 is 2X8800512MB in SLI, and they will cost you around $870? And a 9800GX2 is around $860, well will call it the same price for argument sakes.


Not really seeing your point sorry.

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 12:39 PM
Do you understand that the closest SLI option to match the "performance" of a 9800GX2 is 2X8800512MB in SLI, and they will cost you around $870? And a 9800GX2 is around $860, well will call it the same price for argument sakes.


Not really seeing your point sorry.

These guys (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-9800-gx2-review,1792.html)are really the best at this stuff... No point us squabbling about it.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 12:43 PM
*lays tracks*
Power Supply please
*re-rails thread*

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 01:02 PM
These guys (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-9800-gx2-review,1792.html)are really the best at this stuff... No point us squabbling about it.

Yep read that review and about 10 others.

Problem with that Toms review it does not match the 9800GX2 against SLI options, there are plenty that do and you will see the 8800GT SLI getting beaten most of the time.

Toms conclusion is centered around many games not scaling well with SLI, thats hardly a news flash, but of course effects the 2xcards option in the same way. Many including myself don't like SLI or CF, but "IF" you do the 9800GX2 is equivalent option to 2x8800GTS (G92) price and performance.

Since Toms review the price of the GX2 has dropped around US$70 also.

I PERSONALLY would buy 1x9800GTX and flag CF/SLI/GX2/GX2, I am merely correcting your point that standard SLi is cheaper than GX2 because its not apples for apples (performance).

DeSade
21-04-2008, 01:08 PM
Ok seems we are stuck on graphics....

What about the limited RAM on the GTX?

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 01:13 PM
Ok seems we are stuck on graphics....

What about the limited RAM on the GTX?

Anything over 512Mb is not needed with the current generation of games and probably for a year or two at least.

The 9800GX2 has one gig however it uses 2x512MB sharing so REALLY it only has 512MB available, mirrored use if that explains it better. Same goes for normal SLI, its mirrored use so 2x512MB really still is 512MB.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 01:17 PM
Ok say I save some money and get the GTX, what PSU (original question hehe) do I need for that?

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Pretty sure it requires 475watt, BUT keep in mind this is a combined system wide guide, so depends on what you have in your rig. If yours is a TRUE 500watt with one HDD and one CD etc with a 9800GTX, you should be fine, prob running around 400watt or less allowing some overhead.

Just to clarify, its the Multi SLI type GPUs that make the GX2 faster than a 9800GTX not the ram.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 01:29 PM
This time around I want a graphics board that can handle anything I throw at it
any game due in the next year at least.

GTX can do this?

Thebananamonkey
21-04-2008, 01:34 PM
Yes

And sorry about the massive derail... Makes the tangiwai disaster look small in comparison... :p

DeSade
21-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Ok guys you have changed my mind GTX it is
I like the look of the XFX XxX anyway :)

Can you suggest a new PSU to go with it thou, I can spend pretty much whatever it takes now keeping in mind the upgrades to come.

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 01:41 PM
The 9800GTX will handle almost all games pretty effortlessly, Crysis will not run well at very high settings on 1920x200 for example, but my advice is get over it and lower your resolution like the rest of the world lol.

Also the G200 GPU parts are set for release "some time" in q2/q3 of this year, so it probably pays to do cheaper upgrades more often than blowing a grand on a GPU now.

SolMiester
21-04-2008, 01:42 PM
This is all I have access too right now

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 4/18/2008, 07:51:07
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
Memory: 2048MB RAM
Page File: 427MB used, 3512MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

This will be a serious bottleneck for you!. I would imagine you will lose 20 - 25% performance as your CPU is not fast enough to supply data to the card!

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 01:45 PM
This will be a serious bottleneck for you!. I would imagine you will lose 20 - 25% performance as your CPU is not fast enough to supply data to the card!

yep I second that, didn't notice his specs in the thread, your talking about bottlenecking a 9800GTX between 20-25% is about right on the money i would say.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 01:49 PM
Yes I know this is a problem but I need to upgrade my CPU with my Mainboard and ram at the same time to ensure compatibility.

I cant afford that right now.

I might be able to do a processor only thats what I will check out next, what my board can handle. But I am thinking more of going intel core 2 this time around.

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 02:09 PM
Do you mind overclocking?

DeSade
21-04-2008, 02:11 PM
I don't mind as long as its not going to blow anything up or cause more crashes that usual.

I wouldn't know where to start thou

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 03:02 PM
I don't mind as long as its not going to blow anything up or cause more crashes that usual.

I wouldn't know where to start thou

A really cheap and great OC option is a $90 Intel E2160 on a $150 Gigabyte P35-DS3L mobo. You should be able to get this to 3gig on standard the standard Intel cooler easily (no guarantees, but never seen a E2160 not hit 3 gig)

The performance at 3gig will be a good match for a 9800GTX. Buy a aftermarket CPU cooler around $70 and go to 3.3 gig but no real need to be honest.

And the real world performance
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_14.html

DeSade
21-04-2008, 03:39 PM
Can't afford a CPU / Board update right now, it has to wait, not even a few hundred.

Battleneter2
21-04-2008, 03:51 PM
Well when you do, keep in mind you are probably using DDR1 ram and will need DDR2. But the good news is you can probably flog it off on Trademe for nearly the same price as DDR2 ram (as I did on a 2nd rig recently), in fact your processor and board will have maybe a $80 ish value if sold as a going concern.

DeSade
21-04-2008, 04:15 PM
When I upgrade going for core 2 duo latest from intel and ddr3 ram, that will be fine when I do it but right now I don't have any spare cash.
Also a 25% bottleneck will hardly be noticed, compared to my 8600 card this thing will scream.

SolMiester
21-04-2008, 06:23 PM
When I upgrade going for core 2 duo latest from intel and ddr3 ram, that will be fine when I do it but right now I don't have any spare cash.
Also a 25% bottleneck will hardly be noticed, compared to my 8600 card this thing will scream.

Yes, you will notice a big difference straight away......There is no reason if the PSU issue is sorted, that it wont be a great upgrade with the new RAM,CPU & Mobo later, to be even better...

Enjoy

DeSade
21-04-2008, 07:46 PM
http://www.pp.co.nz/products.php?pp_id=AA05731

Hows this for a PSU?

SolMiester
22-04-2008, 10:15 AM
http://www.pp.co.nz/products.php?pp_id=AA05731

Hows this for a PSU?

Very nice PSU, I have the silverstone decathlon which is modular, great when you dont need ALL the cables....

DeSade
22-04-2008, 10:29 AM
I was looking for modular but this one impressed me with its reviews and build.

Battleneter2
22-04-2008, 12:03 PM
When I upgrade going for core 2 duo latest from intel and ddr3 ram, that will be fine when I do it but right now I don't have any spare cash.
Also a 25% bottleneck will hardly be noticed, compared to my 8600 card this thing will scream.

DDR3 far more expensive than DDR2 for next to no extra tangible performance gain so I wouldn't. As for the processor its a matter of how much $$ you want to chuck at it. C2D overclocks like crazy, so when on a budget I recommend go low and OC (3 gig is usually very safe and very easy), and pump every $ you can into the best GPU you can afford.

Its all up to the individual of course, much like anything.

GeneralKanos
22-04-2008, 12:05 PM
Yea, I agree.
Thats what I'm currently doing.
Got an E8200 which sits at 2.66GHz and Ill OC that to 3GHz+ easy and two 8800GT's