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grumpyturkey
23-11-2007, 11:00 AM
Hi, looking to put together a new desktop and just about got everything sorted but not sure about the PSU.

I'm planning on an E6750 in a Gigabyte P31-DS3L mobo, a Gigabyte 8600GT/512mb graphics card and a Seagate 500gb HD. Case is the Gigabyte Triton ATX. I might upgrade to an 8800GT card in a year or two and may add an extra HD at some time. Main use will be general home/office, RAW photo processing, and some gaming.

Is the basic Thermaltake 430watt psu ok or should I be looking for something with a bit more grunt? If so any specific recommendations?

Thanks,
Mark

stormdragon
23-11-2007, 12:00 PM
That Thermaltake one is rubbish.

I recommend something like one of these:

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUCLM12905
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUCLM12906
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=PSUEMXHW755

Remember if you're looking at PSU's wattage isn't everything.

pctek
23-11-2007, 12:02 PM
Enermax.

Enermax 535W FMA II DXX would do.

You don't need so much high watts, just reliable, quality and decent amps on the +12v.

wainuitech
23-11-2007, 12:06 PM
That Thermaltake one is rubbish.

Care to explain why they are rubbish ?

I've used thermaltake for years - and that particular one the Thermaltake W0084RA PSU 430W in over 60 PC's - NEVER had a failure yet.

Some of the PSU's have Modular cables / connectors - I've read lots of horror stories about how often they fail - true or not I dont know.

Speedy Gonzales
23-11-2007, 12:10 PM
Yup, I'm using the TT 430w's here.

Havent had any probs with them since I brought them.

stormdragon
23-11-2007, 12:12 PM
From experience the cheap 430W ones I've had are rubbish. I've had multiple fail on me, although suppose it may have just been bad luck. I've since replaced it with one of the Cool Master 430W ones I linked to and never had trouble since.

I got nothing against Thermaltake I've even got one of toughpower 550W versions in another computer.

wainuitech
23-11-2007, 12:18 PM
Cant really go by pricing - that Thermaltake is actualy give or take $1-$5 is the same price that PB tech have in the link provided for the Cooler Master eXtreme Power 430W.
I got nothing against Thermaltake I've even got one of toughpower 550W versions in another computer. Does it have the Modular connections - and if so ever had any problems please ?

grumpyturkey
23-11-2007, 12:27 PM
Thanks, some interesting discussion coming out of this, especially from the builders. Really appreciated.

Is the 430 enough for me or should I really be looking around 500-550? And what would the risks be if I went for the 430w?

Cheers,
Mark

stormdragon
23-11-2007, 12:29 PM
Ok I suppose the word cheap wasn't really necessary, but is "cheaper" then a lot of PSU's including the Toughpower series.

Nah its not modular, its one of these (http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/ToughPower/w009697/w009697.asp#specification).

SolMiester
23-11-2007, 01:16 PM
I had a TT460 got pissssh on me after 6mths!

wratterus
23-11-2007, 01:19 PM
"Thermaltake" PSUs are average, the "Toughpower" series are real good. I have a 750w modular one, no issues at all. Stoked with it.

steveroby
23-11-2007, 01:28 PM
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/thermaltake-psu-roundup.html

some comments from the reveiw, may not be the particular model you looked at

"half a hundred watts short of the declared maximum output power, at a load of about 380W, the PSUís switching transistor overheat and burned down in the power supply"

"They are not so very bad by themselves, but their original wattage ratings were 250W and 300W, respectively, and were transformed into 400W and 430W after they were branded as Thermaltakeís products"


however...
"Most of the PurePower series units are midrange models. They donít have exceptional parameters, but are free from obvious defects"

"Thermaltake made some amends to the users with its newer TR2 series units. The specified wattage of the W0093 is overstated by only 50W, and it passed through my tests alive. When I tried to squeeze the specified output power out of it, its protection worked sooner than its transistors got burned."

xmojo1
23-11-2007, 02:02 PM
I read in an article regarding the Nvidia 8800GT (the writer of the article was reviewing the XFX brand of 8800GT card) that a 500W power supply was the minimum for a single card configuration computer running the 8800GT. This is for the 512MB version of the 8800GT. I don't know what the power draw would be for the 256MB version of the 8800GT.

Agent_24
23-11-2007, 03:04 PM
I had a thermaltake 430 watt PSU, worked OK, but the watts rating seemed total lies, compared to enermax

one day it started making strange noises when turned off, so I got rid of it.

They've got some OK designs and some bad ones too afaik. I'd just buy enermax if it was me

Trev
23-11-2007, 03:42 PM
Got a thermaltake 430 watt PSU from DSE about 18 months ago and is still going strong.
:)

Pete O'Neil
23-11-2007, 03:50 PM
The cheaper Thermaltake units aren't bad PSU's they're just bad value. You don't get alot for your money especially compared with the cheaper Silverstone units etc. The Thermaltake toughpowers have a very good reputation. If the budget is tight then there is a cheaper 400w Silverstone that can be had for around $80ish.

Also don't waste money on the 8600GT if you plan to play games then make the jump now to the 8800GT, buy the time you by the 8800GT it will be pointless and outdated.

grumpyturkey
23-11-2007, 08:12 PM
Also don't waste money on the 8600GT if you plan to play games then make the jump now to the 8800GT, buy the time you by the 8800GT it will be pointless and outdated.

Thanks for the suggestion. I seriously considered the 8800GT. It certainly sounds like a great card but costs around $280 - $300 more. You need to work out where the priorities lie. The 8600GT will do what I need for now and I'm planning to put the $300 saved towards a top-quality A3+ photo printer. That's if I can get permission from she-who-holds-the-cheque-book. Who knows, if I save enough I might even be able to stretch to the awesome Epson 3800.

Cheers,
Mark

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 08:19 PM
Enermax and Acbel is suggested they have proper components and the right weight. Weight is a important consideration when buying Power Supplys, the heavier the better.
The others are right ThermalTake's quality is insanely poor i got a water cooling system from the m, the parts and the manual is horrible.
Never judge quality by simple tests always check with reviews. The bare minimum today is at least 600 watts. You need about 700+ to ensure stability and prevent overheating the powersupply as this could damage all hardware connected to it. Overvolting or undervolting is possible.

george12
23-11-2007, 08:31 PM
The bare minimum today is at least 600 watts. You need about 700+ to ensure stability and prevent overheating the powersupply as this could damage all hardware connected to it. Overvolting or undervolting is possible.

That's rubbish. I really do hope nobody listens to this and spends $300 on a power supply to power their 8600GT....

A decent brand of 400W or more will be fine!

600W is overkill, and 700W really is JUST INSANE.

The rest of what you said is all fine though :D

qazwsxokmijn
23-11-2007, 08:39 PM
Weight is a important consideration when buying Power Supplys, the heavier the better.
Rubbish. My past 550W AcBel was much lighter than my generic 450W and the AcBel PSU was much better. And 600W as a bare minimum for today's systems? Which shaman have you been consulting lately?

Do educate yourself before you say something.

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 08:45 PM
You mean that you have the PSU just to power a graphic card, man do you know how much wattage each component draws.
Not to mention each voltage has its max current rating.
CPU about 100 watt on 3.3v on full load.
GPU about 80 watts 12v on full load
Optical drives 20 watts 12v each
Harddrives 30 watts 12v and 5v each
North Bridge 50 watts 3.3v
South Bridge 30 watts 3.3v
Did you know that electrical components leak power, so you have to be prepared.

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Each company has its own oem so they could change their mind on cutting costs. Or their could be fake products.

qazwsxokmijn
23-11-2007, 09:00 PM
CPU about 100 watt on 3.3v on full load.
On the 12v rail you.....gotta stay civil....3.3v was the old CPUs or was it 5v even?.....today they use 12v rails. And not all CPUs consume 100W you jackass. The Pentiums probably did, but saying C2Ds consume 100W is just stupid.

GPU 80W? Again, not all, as there are many GPUs that do not need the extra power cable, and those that need even 2 extra power cables (PCI-E cables).

I'm not sure about the drives, but 30W on the HDD sounds a bit too much. Maybe around 20?

And N/S bridges using 50W?

Where do you keep spouting all this crap from?

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 09:04 PM
Hay man thats only my opinion no fuss there.

qazwsxokmijn
23-11-2007, 09:05 PM
Opinion? You're passing down these info as facts.

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 09:05 PM
I said on 3.3 rail not actual the voltage inverters change it to 1.3 volts

george12
23-11-2007, 09:06 PM
You mean that you have the PSU just to power a graphic card, man do you know how much wattage each component draws.
Not to mention each voltage has its max current rating.
CPU about 100 watt on 3.3v on full load.
GPU about 80 watts 12v on full load
Optical drives 20 watts 12v each
Harddrives 30 watts 12v and 5v each
North Bridge 50 watts 3.3v
South Bridge 30 watts 3.3v
Did you know that electrical components leak power, so you have to be prepared.

Oh dear.

First thing's first - the CPU runs off the 12V rail. The north/south bridge use nowhere near 80W. Remember we're talking "bare minimum" here, not QX6850 type stuff.

This adds to just under 300W once the figures are adjusted to be within reason, meaning that a 400W power supply is ample. 500W to be safe.

Naturally, the 12V rail is an important consideration too. We're looking at about 200W, which calls for about 17A on the 12V rail. Any decent 400W power supply will be rated at more than this, but as I said, a 500W one is a good idea to be safe and leave a nice margin.

Now tell me about these leaky components, please. Where does this power leak to, exactly?

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 09:07 PM
No body knows man, your not from those companies so you cannot know exact info.

qazwsxokmijn
23-11-2007, 09:09 PM
I said on 3.3 rail not actual the voltage inverters change it to 1.3 volts
Sure they do. The voltage inverters also change electricity into a cup of coffee for you in the morning.

No body knows man, your not from those companies so you cannot know exact info.
I can guarantee you he knows more than you.

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 09:10 PM
If you take physics then one way of leaking electricity is through the pathways as metals have resistance and the cpu, gpu transistors usually leak since they keep on changing circuitry designs such as die shrink in nano metres

george12
23-11-2007, 09:10 PM
I said on 3.3 rail not actual the voltage inverters change it to 1.3 volts

That makes your logic even worse.

Power supply do not have a 1.3V rail. We're talking about power supplies here - the current the CPU draws pre-inverters is irrelevant.

The power for the CPU is drawn through the 12V rail and will be well under 100W for a reasonable Core 2 Duo.

qazwsxokmijn
23-11-2007, 09:12 PM
If you take physics then one way of leaking electricity is through the pathways as metals have resistance and the cpu, gpu transistors usually leak since they keep on changing circuitry designs such as die shrink in nano metres
Opinion again? Or did the long-haired lady whispered the above into your ears?

And I know what you have that's sized a few nanometers and leak a certain liquid. :lol:

george12
23-11-2007, 09:14 PM
If you take physics then one way of leaking electricity is through the pathways as metals have resistance and the cpu, gpu transistors usually leak since they keep on changing circuitry designs such as die shrink in nano metres

I can't even begin to dissect this post.

All I will do is assure you that there is no significant current leakage that comes into play when working out the power requirements of a PC.

On the milliamp / millivolt level there may be capacitative effects etc (which I don't claim to know anything about) but these do not come into play on a scale that is relevant to anything power-related.

JUST INSANE
23-11-2007, 09:40 PM
Are you the component creater. If no then you won't know for sure.

george12
23-11-2007, 09:44 PM
Are you the component creater. If no then you won't know for sure.

How old are you?

Greg
23-11-2007, 09:46 PM
From experience the cheap 430W ones I've had are rubbish. I've had multiple fail on me, although suppose it may have just been bad luck.I think your experience has just been bad luck, or else your comments are full of bloated crap. The Thermaltake units are very efficient and inexpensive, and are a good option for someone who's unsure what to buy without having to overspend.

stormdragon
24-11-2007, 08:31 AM
I think your experience has just been bad luck, or else your comments are full of bloated crap. The Thermaltake units are very efficient and inexpensive, and are a good option for someone who's unsure what to buy without having to overspend.

I said it may have just been bad luck on my part, there is no reason to really call it bloated crap as you don't know me, so you're just jumping to conclusions.

george12
24-11-2007, 01:24 PM
I think your experience has just been bad luck, or else your comments are full of bloated crap. The Thermaltake units are very efficient and inexpensive, and are a good option for someone who's unsure what to buy without having to overspend.

You can't deny that they're rebranded 300W supplies.

The may be reliable if you're only using 250W or so, but if you use more than ~300W, you'll probably quickly find out what people mean when they say they're unreliable.

That, or you'll get the over-current protection cutting it out (this actually happens on this PSU at well below 430W and with no current ratings exceeded).

This isn't my personal experience, I don't use this PSU. It's research.