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View Full Version : Vista OEM License on a returned computer



robbyp
08-10-2007, 06:34 PM
I purchased a new computer from an Auckland online computer store, along with a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate OEM over a month ago.
I am now having to return the computer as the retailer wasn't able to provide me with a working computer, without any defects, within a reasonable period of time . It is a very long story, and I have received very poor service from this company, and they tried to deceive me but putting parts from a courier damaged PC into my new computer, which is why I eventually asked for a refund.
Anyway to cut a long story short, they have agreed to totally refund me what I have paid, however they have now told me that they refuse to refund the price that I paid for the Vista license, as they say that they can't refund software. I asked them whether I would have trouble installing the software on another computer, and they told me that I would need to contact microsoft if I had any problems with it.
However have contacted Microsoft and they have told me that the retailer is incorrect, and that they aren't permitted to sell OEM software without a computer, and they do have to take it back.

The computer company however doesn't agree with this and are refusing to refund for the operating system. Has anyone been is this type of situation? Do they have to take the software back, and would I have trouble installing this OEM Vista software on another computer?

wainuitech
08-10-2007, 07:22 PM
LEGALLY [quote] Microsoft and they have told me that the retailer is incorrect, and that they aren't permitted to sell OEM software without a computer, and they do have to take it back.[end]

Microsoft do know what they are talking about.- Its their software after all.

Heres what you can do though if they wont take it back there is nothing stopping you purchasing a complete PC or parts to build your own from some place you do trust with no OS and then install the Vista in that PC.- Its A new PC so its legal.

Putting the Vista in an existing PC is not legal (OEM) The very first line on system builder software reads " Each individual software licence inside this package may ONLY be distributed with a fully assembled computer system"

(as you may have guessed I'm a licenced MS system builder also in my company)
Assuming the old one had been activated, then there still is not a problem, when activating the new PC then you may have to call MS again and tell them what happened, and normally MS will simply reactivate the software to that PC. IF it had'nt been activated before then no worries at all.

If you get another place to build the PC for you then as long as they are decent enough, and you are honest and tell them what happened, its only a quick phone call to MS to reactivate it.

By the looks of it the shop you got it from are simply trying to refuse to take the goods back and still make $$$ From you. They don't want to have to go through the possible hassle of reselling the software to some one else as new. BUT along those lines, they are also can't resell the software legally as new because its technically second hand. But from what you say about the "dodgy practices" the company did that wouldn't be a worry.

The other way of course is to go to the shop and tell them maybe they better speak to Microsoft - because if they dont you will, and MS may be back in contact with them.
MS don't take to kindly to retailers / system builders NOT following the OEM rules.

robbyp
08-10-2007, 09:36 PM
LEGALLY [quote] Microsoft and they have told me that the retailer is incorrect, and that they aren't permitted to sell OEM software without a computer, and they do have to take it back.[end]

Microsoft do know what they are talking about.- Its their software after all.

Heres what you can do though if they wont take it back there is nothing stopping you purchasing a complete PC or parts to build your own from some place you do trust with no OS and then install the Vista in that PC.- Its A new PC so its legal.

Putting the Vista in an existing PC is not legal (OEM) The very first line on system builder software reads " Each individual software licence inside this package may ONLY be distributed with a fully assembled computer system"

(as you may have guessed I'm a licenced MS system builder also in my company)
Assuming the old one had been activated, then there still is not a problem, when activating the new PC then you may have to call MS again and tell them what happened, and normally MS will simply reactivate the software to that PC. IF it had'nt been activated before then no worries at all.

If you get another place to build the PC for you then as long as they are decent enough, and you are honest and tell them what happened, its only a quick phone call to MS to reactivate it.

By the looks of it the shop you got it from are simply trying to refuse to take the goods back and still make $$$ From you. They don't want to have to go through the possible hassle of reselling the software to some one else as new. BUT along those lines, they are also can't resell the software legally as new because its technically second hand. But from what you say about the "dodgy practices" the company did that wouldn't be a worry.

The other way of course is to go to the shop and tell them maybe they better speak to Microsoft - because if they dont you will, and MS may be back in contact with them.
MS don't take to kindly to retailers / system builders NOT following the OEM rules.

Thanks for your reply. Because I am in Wellington, and they are an Auckland based company I am not able to visit them, so I have used phone and email. They are a Korean or chinese operated company so I think there maybe some commincation issues, and they possibily aren't aware of the OEM rules.

I have since contacted microsoft, and they have said that they are going to open an investigation into it, and I have given them the name of the computer company. Currently I am wondering if I should return the computer and operating system, or just the return the computer. I may hold off until I have got an answer from microsoft. I will be installing the operating system on a new replacement computer, however microsoft did tell me that it is the place that you purchase the OEM software from, that have to provide the support for that software.

I don't think there would be an issue with selling the software as new, as when someone gets a pc built for them, they often have the OS installed, where the installer would need to open the software box and seals to install it. I don't think I have activated the software either so that should make it easier. However that is not really my problem as a consumer, as they have jerked me around for over a month.

wainuitech
08-10-2007, 10:03 PM
[QUOTE=wainuitech;601132]

I have since contacted microsoft, and they have said that they are going to open an investigation into it, and I have given them the name of the computer company. Currently I am wondering if I should return the computer and operating system, or just the return the computer. I may hold off until I have got an answer from microsoft. I will be installing the operating system on a new replacement computer, however microsoft did tell me that it is the place that you purchase the OEM software from, that have to provide the support for that software.

I don't think there would be an issue with selling the software as new, as when someone gets a pc built for them, they often have the OS installed, where the installer would need to open the software box and seals to install it. I don't think I have activated the software either so that should make it easier. However that is not really my problem as a consumer, as they have jerked me around for over a month.

I'm wellington based myself, and I do agree that dealing with some companies in Auckland is not always easy. They would know the OEM licencing requirements ;) maybe not in english wording though.

I'd hold off returning any thing Especially if Microsoft are looking into it.

{quote} however microsoft did tell me that it is the place that you purchase the OEM software from, that have to provide the support for that software. {end} -

To a degree thats true, but being a seller / technician myself, I also know that you can only support the software to a certain degree, can't legally go changing code etc. So it does have limits as to what the seller can do.

Where you mention about breaking seals etc.
System builders dont actually need the CD/DVD that the OS comes on when you purchase it.
Going from memory I have not actually opened the sealed CD/DVD on a customers OS for ages.
You can get "setup" (for lack of a better word) disks that can be used to install the operating system,using whats called a OPK Kit - all you need is the COA (Certificate of Authenticity / product Key) to load the customers licence. Then Legally you have to put the Certificate of Authenticity on the case and away you go.
I have disks obtained from MS that I use to install OS's when required also, that way the original CD/DVD is in factory sealed, perfect condition when the customer recieves it. What they do with it after that is their doing.

Your last comment regarding being jerked around :groan: Quite simple really if you purchased a new product and its faulty or not what you requested then the supplier should fix it within a reasonable time - my reasonable time 2-3 working days (at most) depending on where the parts are comming from- and not refurbished - NEW!

Opps! that reminds me, must put the COA's on the PC's going back to the customer tomorrow - naughty naughty Me :o ;)

robbyp
09-10-2007, 04:04 PM
Well Microsofts resolution people have told me that the computer company has to provide me with a refund and take back the software, as it is tied to the particular computer it was sold with. They say however that they aren't able to do anything about the computer company at this stage, as they don't have a direct contract with them. However the computer company refuses to refund and take back the software.

Anyone know of a way I can find out who their microsoft software supplier is, so I can contact them directly?
At the moment my only course of action appears to take them to the disputes tribunal, fair go, and report them to the ministry of consumer affairs (which microsoft recommended)

wainuitech
09-10-2007, 04:42 PM
The reason behind Microsoft saying the software is tied to the Computer is because Legally to buy OEM you must also purchase the hardware at the same time.
Legally you cant, or resellers are not allowed to sell OEM with out hardware.

If I was you I'd get the money back from the PC/Hardware,keep the Vista then get a PC custom Built for you to the spec's/components you want and install the vista in that. Technically it is a NEW PC, and even if it had been activated its no problem to sort that.
Nothing really different to if a Motherboard failed after 3 months and its replaced - do it all the time, tell MS what happened and they are perfectly fine to help. - Try and Bull Shi* them - well thats a different story (never tried its not worth the hassle).

For example when I build PC's in my business, I only purchase the parts the customer wants - I already have the Vista or XP CD/DVD's software here. Many places that custom build don't purchase the OS 1 at a time, when you are a system builder, you get the parts /software from various vendors, and you are trusted to obey the OEM rules.
Some Don't and when MS catches them - well lets say its not worth the risk. (so I have heard) - you'd be an idiot to risk your business to make a "quick buck"

CYaBro
09-10-2007, 05:03 PM
The problem is that the Vista COA sticker is stuck to the side of the computer case correct? (Well it should be)
They can't take this off and give it to you as it will most likely rip so they have to give you a refund.

wainuitech
09-10-2007, 05:19 PM
The problem is that the Vista COA sticker is stuck to the side of the computer case correct? (Well it should be)
They can't take this off and give it to you as it will most likely rip so they have to give you a refund.


IF the COA is stuck to the case as it Legally is meant to be you have a good fighting point.

ACTUALLY thats a GREAT point to make to the Company thats not playing ball. Tell them what CYaBro pointed out ( no names mentioned) and tell them you either have to have a Legal COA for the OS, and because its stuck to the case THEY have to provide you with a completely UNDAMAGED sticker, or refund.

Note:
There are ways of removing them without damaging them completely, but I wont say how.

robbyp
09-10-2007, 05:36 PM
IF the COA is stuck to the case as it Legally is meant to be you have a good fighting point.

ACTUALLY thats a GREAT point to make to the Company thats not playing ball. Tell them what CYaBro pointed out ( no names mentioned) and tell them you either have to have a Legal COA for the OS, and because its stuck to the case THEY have to provide you with a completely UNDAMAGED sticker, or refund.

Note:
There are ways of removing them without damaging them completely, but I wont say how.


Thanks for that . That is a very good point and I will make them aware of that if I don't hear back from them. Still waiting to hear back from them after I emailed them yesterday.

wainuitech
09-10-2007, 05:47 PM
Thanks for that . That is a very good point and I will make them aware of that if I don't hear back from them. Still waiting to hear back from them after I emailed them yesterday.
Just before you contact them, AGAIN - check to make sure the COA is actually stuck to the case someplace.

robbyp
09-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Just before you contact them, AGAIN - check to make sure the COA is actually stuck to the case someplace.

I do have the COA sticker. The only problem is that they would probably send me back the empty case with the sticker on it and deduct that from what they owe me. Either that, or they will remove it, as I am sure that they would know how to do it. This company makes up their own rules and break their promises from my dealings with them.

wainuitech
09-10-2007, 08:04 PM
I do have the COA sticker. The only problem is that they would probably send me back the empty case with the sticker on it and deduct that from what they owe me. Either that, or they will remove it, as I am sure that they would know how to do it. This company makes up their own rules and break their promises from my dealings with them.

Hmmmm - Okay - your choice, either go with what you have just said and possibly retain the case (as long as you like it), Threaten them with consumers and or Fairgo. OR advise them that LEGALLY if you have the OS, you also legally have to have the product key, and its againt the OEM licence for them to sell you an OEM Product without hardware.

(Out of interest a case is not enough to sell OEM,Legally it has to be a full computer as per the licence) You will then contact Microsoft again, and say shop ???? is selling OEM Software with out hardware.
I doubt if their suppliers can do anything, they would usually say you need to talk to the shop (Which is hopless)

An Idea!!(Yeah it hurt) I talk to the head person of OEM at MS here in Wellington sometimes - I'll call her tomorrow and ask what they can do - you never know:)

robbyp
09-10-2007, 08:42 PM
Hmmmm - Okay - your choice, either go with what you have just said and possibly retain the case (as long as you like it), Threaten them with consumers and or Fairgo. OR advise them that LEGALLY if you have the OS, you also legally have to have the product key, and its againt the OEM licence for them to sell you an OEM Product without hardware.

(Out of interest a case is not enough to sell OEM,Legally it has to be a full computer as per the licence) You will then contact Microsoft again, and say shop ???? is selling OEM Software with out hardware.
I doubt if their suppliers can do anything, they would usually say you need to talk to the shop (Which is hopless)

An Idea!!(Yeah it hurt) I talk to the head person of OEM at MS here in Wellington sometimes - I'll call her tomorrow and ask what they can do - you never know:)

Many thanks for your help, I will see what they have to say when they reply to my request. I think they are intentionally spanning out their email response time to frustrate me and to hope that I will go away.
I will PM you the shops name as you have probably heard of them.

wainuitech
10-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Many thanks for your help, I will see what they have to say when they reply to my request. I think they are intentionally spanning out their email response time to frustrate me and to hope that I will go away.
I will PM you the shops name as you have probably heard of them.


Robbyp - check your PM, just spoke to the person at Microsoft - Because this is a public forum, I can't say any more:D :thumbs: