PDA

View Full Version : New Additional Ram



shione83
15-07-2007, 10:42 PM
hi guys,
would anyone have any ideas on this...
i added more ram to my pc which now gives me 992Mbs (have no idea what has happened to rest of it as i had 512Mb and added 512mb) but that aside now my pc is running at the same speed as it was and at times is even slower :(
programs are telling me that i have insufficient memory and stop running.
before i added the additional ram i had 512mb as 2x 256mb the additional ram is 1 x 512mb.
the 2 original sticks of ram were placed with an empty memory slot between them... i put them next to each other and the new one at back? or front? of them and pc went haywire, so replaced them as they were and placed new ram in the middle of them which sorted out pc.
now its just the speed thing that is driving me nuts :(

running xp, athlon 2600+.... 2 x 80gig hdd.
an explanation would be helpful :)
thanx

dugimodo
15-07-2007, 11:42 PM
firstly if your system supports dual channel putting in a 3rd RAM chip will make it drop back to single channel mode effectively halving the memory bandwidth, although sometimes more RAM is more important than the speed. For dual channel mode you need pairs of RAM chips - preferably all matched.

Next how full is your hard drive? sometimes memory errors are because there's not enough room left for the swap file, also if the hard drive is full the system will crawl.

Finally more details - what operating system, what programs are giving the error etc.

RAM size for most people works about like this under XP
256 - slow as buggery
512 - much better, memory hungry programs still slow
1024 -better, most programs run ok, enough for a lot of people
2048 - slightly better, enough for almost anyone
more than 2048 - usually can't tell the difference

for Vista you can add about another 256 - 512 to each step

ronyville
16-07-2007, 12:01 AM
Its telling you that its got 992MB only cos 32MB has gone to graphics.

shione83
16-07-2007, 02:11 PM
Thanx ronyville for that info on where the rest of my ram was

Dugimodo... how do i find out if my system supports dual channel mode??

my c drive had 57.8 gigs free space and my D drive has 61.2 gigs free. i have deleted history and cookies and run defrag.

i am running xp home edition
athlon 2600+
think the system is Nividea as this name was under system manufacturer in system information... was that what u wanted to know?
Programs giving me the out of memory messages is PhotoImpact (photo editing software)...
and paintshop pro they have never done that before
also i notice that when i am on any web page that the page or screen will roll slightly but then rights itself...this too has started since i added the extra ram.

wish dick smith staff had explained this all to me before selling me the ram!!

Speedy Gonzales
16-07-2007, 02:17 PM
Dugimodo... how do i find out if my system supports dual channel mode??

You'll have to find out what the mobo brand/model is.

Mobos with 2 or 4 ram slots usually support dual channel.

How many ram slots on the mobo?

SolMiester
16-07-2007, 02:25 PM
Athlon xp 2600+ is not dual channel ram aware, thats why you have 3 ram slots!....

FoxyMX
16-07-2007, 03:51 PM
You have to be careful about what kind of RAM you use as some motherboards have specific requirements when filling 3 slots. It's best to read your motherboard manual and find out exactly what it will take.

wratterus
16-07-2007, 03:52 PM
You have to be careful about what kind of RAM you use as some motherboards have specific requirements when filling 3 slots. It's best to read your motherboard manual and find out exactly what it will take.

Agreed - it's cheaper than trial and error :lol:

ronyville
16-07-2007, 04:17 PM
Can you tell us what model motherboard you got?

PaulD
16-07-2007, 04:53 PM
Athlon xp 2600+ is not dual channel ram aware, thats why you have 3 ram slots!....

It's a MB thing, not dependant on CPU. Many AMD dual channel MB had 3 slots, 1 for 1 chan and 2 for the other. You could run a 512 and 2x 256 in dual mode.

tweak'e
16-07-2007, 05:20 PM
have you adjusted the virtual memory to take in accont of the new ram.

you will need to INCREASE the virtual memory.

SolMiester
16-07-2007, 05:39 PM
have you adjusted the virtual memory to take in accont of the new ram.

you will need to INCREASE the virtual memory.

Only if it is manually set!, most builds will have it as 'let windows automatically adjust..blah blah blah!'

SolMiester
16-07-2007, 05:41 PM
It's a MB thing, not dependant on CPU. Many AMD dual channel MB had 3 slots, 1 for 1 chan and 2 for the other. You could run a 512 and 2x 256 in dual mode.

Dual Channel for AMD processors was released with the Athlon 64 939 socket, the guy has a Athlon XP 2600+, not DC capable AFAIK..:confused:

Pete O'Neil
16-07-2007, 05:44 PM
Dual Channel for AMD processors was released with the Athlon 64 939 socket, the guy has a Athlon XP 2600+, not DC capable AFAIK..:confused:
Nope! Dual Channel memory was first introduced for AMD on the socket A platform with the nForce2 chipset. Back in those days the memory controller was on the chipset so the memory type/configuration was purely based on chipset choice.

PaulD
16-07-2007, 05:48 PM
"Back in those days..." Was it that long ago? I can still remember the cost :D

tweak'e
16-07-2007, 06:13 PM
Only if it is manually set!, most builds will have it as 'let windows automatically adjust..blah blah blah!'
nope :p

win XP by default sets the min and max size on install and leaves it on manual adjustment.

there is an optoin to "let windows adjust" but you have to set that yourself. actually thats an easy way of adjusting it, set it to auto, reboot then see what size it set it to and manually set it to that.

autechre
17-07-2007, 09:44 AM
If the memory is in dual channel mode, it will usually appear on the POST screen with the other memory information. ie. Amount of RAM & speed it's running.

Press the Pause/Break key to pause the POST info on bootup.

dugimodo
17-07-2007, 11:39 AM
it could be a Dual channel issue - but I'm thinking not.

Possibly the old / new RAM isn't getting along well and also if you use onboard graphics with shared memory maybe the "rolling" is due to video memory ( i.e. RAM ) being too slow?? - I'm clutching a straws a little.

Try your new RAM chip by itself and see how well that works compared too all 3. If it's slower with all the RAM installed than with half of it you either have a compatability or timing issue - sometimes mismatched RAM confuses the motherboard and the automatic speed settings drop back to slow "safe" ones.

Also as mentioned it could be related to virtual memory, right click my computer - choose properties, click on advanced then performance - settings - use the "let windows decide" option or manually set a minimum and maximum size of approx 1.5 times your installed RAM ( just as a rough guide ).

It's not true that you need more virtual memory if you have more physical memory, it depends entirely on what you do with your system, but more RAM should really mean less need for virtual memory ( in practice though set a reasonable amount ). When I upgraded to 2G of RAM I turned off my virtual memory alltogether and it took a week of using the pc before I discovered a need to turn it back on for a couple of applications.

SolMiester
17-07-2007, 11:59 AM
Nope! Dual Channel memory was first introduced for AMD on the socket A platform with the nForce2 chipset. Back in those days the memory controller was on the chipset so the memory type/configuration was purely based on chipset choice.

Missed that upgrade!! You learn something everyday:thumbs:

SolMiester
17-07-2007, 12:01 PM
nope :p

win XP by default sets the min and max size on install and leaves it on manual adjustment.

there is an optoin to "let windows adjust" but you have to set that yourself. actually thats an easy way of adjusting it, set it to auto, reboot then see what size it set it to and manually set it to that.

Wonder when they changed that, as I know the original build was auto?!

pctek
17-07-2007, 12:38 PM
"Back in those days..." Was it that long ago? I can still remember the cost :D

As I told somone who bought their sick PC around, and told me it isn't very old - 9 years.

Think of it like dog years: 1 PC year = 7 years.
Or something.

FoxyMX
17-07-2007, 02:13 PM
Wonder when they changed that, as I know the original build was auto?!

I've had Win XP since SP1 came out and mine has always been how tweak'e described.

shione83
17-07-2007, 03:54 PM
WOW!!!! now u guys have me completely confused and i was going quite well i thought at the beginning of this post! LOL
ok... the manual that came with my pc is all about a MS-6370 Mainboard.
it also says the system supports 128-bit dual channel DDR when u install DDR modules on DIMM1 (purple slots) and DIMM3 (Green Slot) or DIMM2 (purple slot) and DIMM3 (Green slot):waughh:
i have, in my green slots, 1 x DDR 256 ram and DDR 512 ram
in my purple slot i have DDR 256 ram
the ram i bought is DDR400...have no idea what the 2 265 sticks r tho but guess they would be DDR
i have increased my virtual memory to 2000MB initial size and to 3000MB max size... but am still getting an insufficient memory error when using photoimpact or paint shop pro.

SolMiester
17-07-2007, 04:23 PM
I've had Win XP since SP1 came out and mine has always been how tweak'e described.

I had it as a Beta tester!

SolMiester
17-07-2007, 04:27 PM
WOW!!!! now u guys have me completely confused and i was going quite well i thought at the beginning of this post! LOL
ok... the manual that came with my pc is all about a MS-6370 Mainboard.
it also says the system supports 128-bit dual channel DDR when u install DDR modules on DIMM1 (purple slots) and DIMM3 (Green Slot) or DIMM2 (purple slot) and DIMM3 (Green slot):waughh:
i have, in my green slots, 1 x DDR 256 ram and DDR 512 ram
in my purple slot i have DDR 256 ram
the ram i bought is DDR400...have no idea what the 2 265 sticks r tho but guess they would be DDR
i have increased my virtual memory to 2000MB initial size and to 3000MB max size... but am still getting an insufficient memory error when using photoimpact or paint shop pro.

I thought you said you had 3 slots?!
So, put the matched pair of 256 in the green and the 1 512 in the purple, however you will not get dual model as you have an odd stick.
Akso your virtual memory is too high. it should start at 1&1/2 times your ram amount and max 2 x ram amount....

So 1Gb to 1.5Gb virtual memory..

PaulD
17-07-2007, 05:23 PM
A brief google suggests that there may be settings in Photoimpact at least that you should check under File>Preferences>System.

Dual Channel in Abit boards at least depended on each channel having the same amount of memory so 2x256 matched with 512 would work.

shione83
17-07-2007, 06:24 PM
I thought you said you had 3 slots?!
So, put the matched pair of 256 in the green and the 1 512 in the purple, however you will not get dual model as you have an odd stick.

that i did!!
i have, in my green slots, 1 x DDR 256 ram and DDR 512 ram
in my purple slot i have DDR 256 ram
dont the above add up to 3? (cept, sorry i didnt put 1x 512 ram) but 3 lots of ram must mean 3 slots huh? :)
you say how to place the ram sticks but harking back to my original post that is what i did but the pc went haywire... lines and patterns up and down and across my screen and nothing else until i placed them as they r now.

checked out Photoimpact for the settings there. theres a box to check... limit ram usage to:
at present it is set at 991mb but the box isn't checked so will have to check that out more as am not sure how much to limit it to lol

SolMiester
17-07-2007, 11:21 PM
that i did!!
i have, in my green slots, 1 x DDR 256 ram and DDR 512 ram
in my purple slot i have DDR 256 ram
dont the above add up to 3? (cept, sorry i didnt put 1x 512 ram) but 3 lots of ram must mean 3 slots huh? :)
you say how to place the ram sticks but harking back to my original post that is what i did but the pc went haywire... lines and patterns up and down and across my screen and nothing else until i placed them as they r now.

checked out Photoimpact for the settings there. theres a box to check... limit ram usage to:
at present it is set at 991mb but the box isn't checked so will have to check that out more as am not sure how much to limit it to lol

----oh dear----
no its not, slots are available spaces to insert RAM modules!, 3 slots does not add up to dual channel. AFAIK you need pairs of slots 2 green, 2 purple etc!

feersumendjinn
18-07-2007, 12:55 AM
This thread seems to have become a bit sidetracked :D

Sounds like a memory test would be a good idea, sounds like your onboard video output is/was showing you your ram (either new or original) is defective, you may have damaged it if you didnt use antistatic measures :eek:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
Or they may be just not making good contact (dust/corrosion in slots, seen it happen), try removing/cleaning/refitting.

PaulD
18-07-2007, 08:46 AM
----oh dear----
no its not, slots are available spaces to insert RAM modules!, 3 slots does not add up to dual channel. AFAIK you need pairs of slots 2 green, 2 purple etc!

Have you forgotten nForce2 boards? The majority of them had 3 slots and did Dual Channel quite happily. Gigabyte did have 4 slots but had rules about type of memory that often meant you could only use 3.

I have no explanation for shione83 having to put a 256 in each channel leaving the 512 running in single channel mode. feersumendjinn is probably on to it.

P.S. In those days you were a big spender to have 2x512, who needed 4 slots :)

shione83
18-07-2007, 12:28 PM
ok ran that memory test program all was well with no errors. but before i did that i refitted and cleaned them YES!! i used an antistatic wrist band :)

dugimodo
18-07-2007, 05:33 PM
ok a bit of clarification.

It would seem, as is normal practice, your motherboard colours the RAM to indicate the channels - i.e green = 1 channel, purple = the other channel.

with 1 matched chip in each channel it will use dual channel mode - your original config.

With 2x256 in green and 1x512 in purple you're attempting to match your old 512 ( 2x256) to your new 512 ( 1 x 512 ) in dual channel mode, no surprise it doesn't work really as they need to match speed, timings etc exactly to work properly in dual channel mode.

With 1x256 & 1x512 in green and 1x256 in purple you have different amounts of RAM in each channel so it drops back to single channel mode and works - but at a lower speed than your original RAM.

There's also a good chance your older RAM is DDR 333 or 266 etc and the New RAM is working at that speed.

I'm afraid your best option is to buy another 512 to match the new one and discard / sell the old 2x256.


As for the out of memory errors, they are a separate issue i'm not sure whats causing them. Most people do ok on 512 or more

feersumendjinn
18-07-2007, 06:29 PM
ok ran that memory test program all was well with no errors. but before i did that i refitted and cleaned them YES!! i used an antistatic wrist band :)

I take it that your ram is all present and correct now?
If so, cool! :) :thumbs:

PaulD
18-07-2007, 06:59 PM
ok a bit of clarification.



Which would have been fine if it was right.

nForce2 didn't work like that.

From Nvidia
"Both of the memory controllers on DualDDR are functionally identical with all control and timing parameters independently programmable. This flexibility allows the users to populate up to three asymmetric DIMMs in any organization, size and speed. DualDDR simply adjust to the lowest common density that will facilitate 128- bit bandwidth, allowing a wide variety of different DIMM combinations to operate reliably regardless of the individual density and latency characteristics."

The way shione83 has the memory the common density is 128MB so that should be in 128 bit mode leaving the 512 in 64 bit mode. The preferred way is to have the two 256MB in the same channel and the 512 in the other so that the common density is 512MB.

The MSI board shione83 has is a mystery, he has said that it is AMD and has an Nvidia controller but the manual he's referred to is for a SIS Intel board.

dugimodo
18-07-2007, 07:27 PM
ok I don't really know anything about nForce 2 and the lowest common density thing is new to me, but still I think I was basically right ( ok I got green & purple backwards ).

Just because the Nvidia chipset can support asymetric dual channel configurations doesn't mean it will work in this case - and with 768M in one channel and 256 in the other I see no way of it working at all ( not that we've established it actually is a nForce 2 board ?? )

The reason for matched Dual channel RAM chips being sold is because there's no way to be sure any 2 random RAM chips will work reliably as a pair until you test them

As I understand Dual channel the RAM works in pairs effectively making one pair of RAM chips ( or 3 in 2 + 1 config ) appear as a single amount of Memory with twice the bandwidth which would always require an equal amount in each channel.

I stand by my recommendation that another 512 of the same type has a better chance of working than 3 mismatched chips

PaulD
18-07-2007, 08:22 PM
As I understand Dual channel the RAM works in pairs effectively making one pair of RAM chips ( or 3 in 2 + 1 config ) appear as a single amount of Memory with twice the bandwidth which would always require an equal amount in each channel.

The example nVidia use in their tech document is a 64 matched with a 128 so equal isn't required unless MSI has borked the implementation.

minster
19-07-2007, 09:32 PM
i have increased my virtual memory to 2000MB initial size and to 3000MB max size... but am still getting an insufficient memory error when using photoimpact or paint shop pro.

As a matter of interest, I have been using Photo Impact ( PI8 PI10 and PI12) for the last 4 years and have never owned a pc (all xp and minimum 1gb ram) that did not get the "insufficient memory" error while using hoto Impact.
I belong to a pi forum (Photo impact international) and there are always members there complaining about this error in Photo Impact. One has 6 gb ram!
PI is a good program but don't forget to save your work often:)
Can't comment on PSP but don't allow a memory hungry program like Photo Impact give you the wrong idea about your configuration.

SolMiester
20-07-2007, 10:10 AM
I was under the impression dual channel needed like modules in the slots too, and simply wont work with all 3 slots full regardless of module sizes, least with the 939 socket boards (NF3 & 4), i dont believe any they would of gone backward from NF2, so yeah, get 2 512Mb modules for the same colour slots.

PaulD
20-07-2007, 10:25 AM
You're comparing AMD's memory controller in the CPU with nVidia's on the motherboard and same colour = same channel (not that dual mode is much faster).

3 slots can and did work, it was common to start with 2x256 and then get a 512 as memory got cheaper. Some boards don't allow you to manually change all the memory settings in bios like Abit. Then you could be tripped up by what's in the memory SPD chips so 2x512 same brand is a safer option.

SolMiester
20-07-2007, 11:10 AM
You're comparing AMD's memory controller in the CPU with nVidia's on the motherboard and same colour = same channel (not that dual mode is much faster).

3 slots can and did work, it was common to start with 2x256 and then get a 512 as memory got cheaper. Some boards don't allow you to manually change all the memory settings in bios like Abit. Then you could be tripped up by what's in the memory SPD chips so 2x512 same brand is a safer option.

Oh yeah, I am too......duh!