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Strommer
15-02-2007, 10:33 AM
A few questions from someone who has never replaced a MB.
(My other thread http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=76603 is now far from the original topic so I thought it best to start anew.)

When a new mb is put into a PC, how are the new drivers added? Via the BIOS or some other way than doing it from Windows? I do not understand if Windows will start at all from an old HD that has WinXP on it. Or is it always necessary to boot from a WinXP installation disk?

The PC that I am upgrading did not come with a WinXP disk, only a recovery CD that restores from a partition on the HD - but as Jen said in my other thread this will probably not work as the partition will be matched to the old MB.

About using drive image (Acronis) - am I wrong in assuming a drive image could be transferred to a different PC and not just the one that it was made from? I was in an internet cafe once and saw nearly all of the PCs being Ghosted at the same time from what I thougt was one image.

Just found this on MS Knowledge Base:

For Windows XP:

To replace a failed motherboard with a new motherboard and to then reconfigure Windows to work with the new motherboard, do the following:
1. Turn off the computer.
2. Replace the existing motherboard with the new motherboard.
3. Insert your Windows CD in the CD-ROM drive or the DVD-ROM drive, and start the computer from the CD.

a. When you are prompted To set up Windows now, press ENTER, press ENTER. Setup looks for any previous installations of Windows XP on the hard disk and then displays a list of any previous installations that it finds.

b. Use the arrow keys to select the installation that you want to repair, and then press R to select the To repair the selected Windows installation, press R option.

Cr*p, cannot find a COA sticker on the PC. It was bought at Farmers, PC Company, according to the previous owner. Well well well, if a drive image does not work and a MS serial number is needed for Repair (and cannot somehow be retrieved when using the old HD as a slave in my destop), then Linux here we come!

Strommer
15-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Foxy wrote (at my old thread): That method is a "dirty install" which has been mentioned quite often here if you want to do a search. And yes, you will need the COA number before it can be performed. I would highly recommend getting the data off the hard drive by slaving it to another PC as soon as you can, if the data is important. Murphy's Law and all that kind of thing...

I am going to try to slave the old HD sometime later today. Hopefully this will work: In my main PC there are two HD's so I thought simply replacing the secondary HD (used for back up, not with WinXP on it) would enable me to read the data off the old HD. Correct? Is there any way the WinXP serial number can be found when accessing the old HD like this? The original PC with WinXP is legit - it just did not come with a WinXP installation disk, only a recovery CD.

Thanks.

Jen
15-02-2007, 10:45 AM
When a new mb is put into a PC, how are the new drivers added? Via the BIOS or some other way than doing it from Windows? I do not understand if Windows will start at all from an old HD that has WinXP on it. Or is it always necessary to boot from a WinXP installation disk?Drivers are installed after Windows is installed as you require an operating system to be present first (with the exception of some s-ATA drivers).


The PC that I am upgrading did not come with a WinXP disk, only a recovery CD that restores from a partition on the HD - but as Jen said in my other thread this will probably not work as the partition will be matched to the old MB.To clarify your understanding, the PC is a PC Company computer. They were known for locking in the Recovery CD into the original motherboard BIOS so that it wouldn't work if you either used a non-PC Company supplied BIOS update or changed the motherboard.


About using drive image (Acronis) - am I wrong in assuming a drive image could be transferred to a different PC and not just the one that it was made from? I was in an internet cafe once and saw nearly all of the PCs being Ghosted at the same time from what I thougt was one image.The internet cafe would of had identical hardware in their computers which is why one image can be used on many computers without problems.


Cr*p, cannot find a COA sticker on the PC. It was bought at Farmers, PC Company, according to the previous owner. All PC Company computers came with the COA sticker somewhere on the computer case. If you have searched all sides of the case and cannot find it, then the original owner must of removed it before it was sold. You can only extract the COA number off the disk if the OS is still working.

Jen
15-02-2007, 10:54 AM
I should add, once you have rescued off any data you need from the old hard drive, you have nothing to lose by attempting to just boot up the computer with the original hard drive and see what happens. Try booting into Safe Mode first.

FoxyMX
15-02-2007, 10:59 AM
If you can find the COA you can use another Windows XP CD to perform the "dirty install" so you won't need the recovery CD.

I haven't tried it myself but I don't think you will be able to retrieve the key by slaving the drive to another, unfortunately. The utility would just display the master computer's Windows key.

davehartley
15-02-2007, 11:23 AM
Just having a browse ... it looks like the Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ubcd4win.com/) has a version of the Magical Jellybean Keyfinder that will work on a slave drive. Haven't this CD myself, but it looks like an interesting one.

Erayd
15-02-2007, 11:25 AM
RE Retrieving the windows key - it is possible to do this from BartPE, but you will need a windows CD in order to make a BartPE disk in the first place, so not sure how helpful this is...

davehartley
15-02-2007, 11:28 AM
Oh silly me ... you need a Windows CD for the Ultimate Boot CD too! :( I found another utility at NirSoft (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html) that looks like it'd work.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 01:16 PM
Oh silly me ... you need a Windows CD for the Ultimate Boot CD too! :( I found another utility at NirSoft (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html) that looks like it'd work.

Thanks Dave. It looks interesting:
ProduKey is a small utility that displays the ProductID and the CD-Key of
MS-Office, Windows, Exchange Server, and SQL Server installed on your
computer. You can view this information for your current running
operating system, or for another operating system/computer - by using
command-line options. This utility can be useful if you lost the product
key of your Windows/Office, and you want to reinstall it on your computer.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 01:36 PM
If you can find the COA you can use another Windows XP CD to perform the "dirty install" so you won't need the recovery CD.

I haven't tried it myself but I don't think you will be able to retrieve the key by slaving the drive to another, unfortunately. The utility would just display the master computer's Windows key.

Hey, I found the COA sticker.! Don't know how :o I missed it before, must have not had my specs on.

Jen - thanks for the explanation but I am still confused on one point: if the MB drivers can only be installed once the OS is operating, this means the MB is working without the proper drivers when the OS is first installed. I suppose WinXP has a set of generic MB drivers but without the proper drivers that match the MB, the MB will not be as efficient. Correct? .... and... OK, I will try booting up using the old HD, as you say there is nothing to lose. I'll start on it this evening.

This is a big project for me. What I have managed to do so far is to remove the HD (piece of cake) and the PS (marked a few connectors and hope that I can figure out :eek: where everything goes on the new mb!). Removing the old mb was a real pain. Once I removed all the screws it took lots of wiggling to get it off the female screw settings and I kept looking for a hidden screw that I had missed. I sure hope the new mb goes on without me having to whack :badpc: it with a hammer.

For those of you who routinely dive into PCs and replace everything, you may probably wonder what the big deal is, but for me who has only replaced a modem and CD-DVD-RW, this is a :p major effort.

pctek
15-02-2007, 01:58 PM
The internet cafe would of had identical hardware

then the original owner must of removed it

Sorry Jen but:

Would have

Must have

Anyway the installation:

You need to install the board, then install Windows. A fresh install. Repairs and such don't usually work. XP is picky about new motherboards.......

Yes there are generic drivers, you will find XP may have drivers for some hardware already -once XP is finished, go to Control Panel - System - Hardware - Device Manager

Everything that still needs its driver will show up there.
Download and install drivers for these items.

Uusally motherboard chipset (get that anyway), LAN, sound, Graphics.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 02:00 PM
Foxy wrote: That method is a "dirty install" which has been mentioned quite often here if you want to do a search.

From PF1 search:

http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=76116

http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=75850

Strommer
15-02-2007, 02:06 PM
Yes there are generic drivers, you will find XP may have drivers for some hardware already -once XP is finished, go to Control Panel - System - Hardware - Device Manager

Everything that still needs its driver will show up there.
Download and install drivers for these items.

Uusally motherboard chipset (get that anyway), LAN, sound, Graphics.

The mb came with a CD which has chipset and device drivers, plus a floppy: "RAID Installation Support Disk". There is also a fold out poster size set of instructions. Oh yeah, I can see this is going to be real fun! :lol:

Speedy Gonzales
15-02-2007, 02:07 PM
this means the MB is working without the proper drivers when the OS is first installed. I suppose WinXP has a set of generic MB drivers but without the proper drivers that match the MB, the MB will not be as efficient. Correct? .... and... OK, I will try booting up using the old HD, as you say there is nothing to lose. I'll start on it this evening.

Correct, XP just installs default drivers. Thats why when u build a mobo it comes with drivers on CD. For drivers for LAN/USB2/Sound/Video etc.

You have to install the drivers from the CD (it's usually recommended that the the mobo drivers be installed BEFORE anything else if it has any).

Or download them from the mobo maker's site, so they work properly.

The hardest bit (with brands like Dell/HP (if the drivers didn't come on CD), is finding the drivers later on the site. Thats if you format the hdd, and install a new mobo, as Jen says brands like Dell/HP etc which come with a CD or partition with the OS on them, may not work, if you change the mobo, and try and re-install the OS from the CD or if u backup the partition that has the OS on it, to CD or DVD.

FoxyMX
15-02-2007, 02:50 PM
Hey, I found the COA sticker.!


The mb came with a CD which has chipset and device drivers, plus a floppy: "RAID Installation Support Disk".

Sweet, now you're away. :)

If the new motherboard takes a bit of wriggling to get into the case don't worry, just keep trying. Just make sure you don't let anything touch bits they don't belong to, eg screws only go in screwholes and screwdrivers in screws, not skid across the mobo itself. :p

Once you've got everything connected start the PC, pop the Windows XP disc in the drawer, restart and away you go with the Windows installation. Choose the option to format the hard drive first as you should have got the data backed up elsewhere by then.

After that, use the chipset and device drivers CD to load up the motherboard drivers then that's it. Reinstall programs, data, etc and you're home and hosed.

What could possibly go wrong? :eek: :p

Strommer
15-02-2007, 03:07 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
__________________
Feel the fear and do it anyway.

Diving into the PC, this will be my mantra ! ;)

Digby
15-02-2007, 03:28 PM
Sorry I can't help much

But your problem really upsets me as it is all due to Microsofts policy of not supplying a full copy of the Operating System when you happened to buy your PC.

What other product can you buy but only get part of it ?

I had a PC from the PC Company with ME on it.

It basically forces people into piracy.

Your best bet is to backup your data
Get a full copy of XP somehow. I got mine for about $ 200.
Booot from that and set up your hard drive with XP on it, you will never regret it.

Regards

Digby

pctek
15-02-2007, 04:17 PM
Sorry I can't help much

But your problem really upsets me as it is all due to Microsofts policy of not supplying a full copy of the Operating System when you happened to buy your PC.


Microsofts policy?? Microsoft has nothing to do with it.
Compaq/Dell/HP etc policy.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 07:03 PM
Silly question perhaps but I have to be sure: The CPU comes with black spongy plastic over the pins, and this must be removed before placing it in the mb socket, right? There is no mention of this with the AMD Sempron instructions provided. Surely the pins must go straight into the socket without the spongy material (which must be just for packing/shipping).

The fan/heat sink does have thermal interface material - I am not referring to this as it is clear that this interface material is needed.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 07:06 PM
Also - I am putting the cpu + fan on the mb, then screwing the mb into the case. This seems logical as it is easier to do the cpu + fan placement without the confines of the case. Is this the correct order?

Speedy Gonzales
15-02-2007, 07:22 PM
Also - I am putting the cpu + fan on the mb, then screwing the mb into the case. This seems logical as it is easier to do the cpu + fan placement without the confines of the case. Is this the correct order?

Yup its easier to put the CPU/fan, and ram on the mobo before you put the mobo in the case.

Not too sure about the sponge plastic thing, never had an AMD CPU.

I can't remember seeing anything like this on a P4.

pctek
15-02-2007, 07:46 PM
Silly question perhaps but I have to be sure: The CPU comes with black spongy plastic over the pins, and this must be removed before placing it in the mb socket, right?.

Yes.
Its packaging.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks guys.

I have one 512 stick of RAM. Does it matter which slot it goes into? My guess is that it can go in either slot. Nothing mentioned in the mb instructions.

(5 minutes later) Now I see that each slot is numbered 1, and 2. Very small print and hard to see. It would make sense to use slot 1, correct?

Speedy Gonzales
15-02-2007, 08:06 PM
Yup shouldn't matter which slot.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 08:39 PM
Thanks Speedy.

Slight problem - see photos:
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/20pin_socket__1.jpg
and
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/20pin_socket__2.jpg

The white 20 pin power socket will be covered by the CD Reader (which is not in its correct place as it will cover the power socket). The top slot has a CD Writer. Inbetween the two is an empty slot so the CD Reader can be moved into that empty space, freeing up the 20 pin socket. My question is this: the empty slot is has a cover held in place by rivets, which I assume have to be drilled out and I do not like the idea of metal bits flying around. Are these rivets removed only by drilling? If so, would tape or other covering help stop the bits of metal going in bad places, i.e. inside the case?

Jen
15-02-2007, 08:46 PM
Righto, well the CD bay covers do not need to be drilled out. They are held in place by small spots of metal which you can snap off. Try flexing the bay cover and you will see the points that need to be snapped off.

FoxyMX
15-02-2007, 08:49 PM
Why not remove the CD reader and just use the CD writer?

Speedy Gonzales
15-02-2007, 08:49 PM
You should be able to move / wriggle the metal bit from the front of the case around a bit, and it should come off. Just be careful, as these things are sharp.

I would just install a DVD writer, save u using 2 cd's.

Strommer
15-02-2007, 08:54 PM
Righto, well the CD bay covers do not need to be drilled out. They are held in place by small spots of metal which you can snap off. Try flexing the bay cover and you will see the points that need to be snapped off.

Ahhhhh, now I see. There ARE rivets nearby but they do not hold the coverings. Its as you say. :thumbs:

Strommer
15-02-2007, 08:58 PM
Why not remove the CD reader and just use the CD writer?

Yep, thats a possibility. The PC is used in an office so not much need to copy CDs but occasionally there is a need (legal non copyright stuff of course) so it would be nice the CD Reader can be retained, but not an absolute.

Speedy - if it was my PC or one used at home, a DVD writer would be good. It comes down to $$.

BTW, going to try and get the data off the old HD tomorrow. Must do some business wp now. Stay tuned. Thanks.

drcspy
15-02-2007, 10:07 PM
jen said:

To clarify your understanding, the PC is a PC Company computer. They were known for locking in the Recovery CD into the original motherboard BIOS so that it wouldn't work if you either used a non-PC Company supplied BIOS update or changed the motherboard.


beg to differ from considerable experience of replacing mobos on pc co puters, (largely due to the fact that they often used the old ECS purple death K7VTA3 boards which had a propensity to blow capacitors)

the pc co 'recovery cd's' were ONLY windows xp and nothing else as far as i've ever seen.....and they worked fine with a different mobo.......well the many i've done sure did anyway

pctek said:
you need to install the board, then install Windows. A fresh install. Repairs and such don't usually work. XP is picky about new motherboards.......

yep xp is 'picky' about new mobos but i've rebuilt many with new mobos and never had any particular probs with a 'dirty -over the top-install' .......in my experience they DO usually work indeed without too much trouble at all...

Just install the new hardware then TRY to boot windoze.....if you are VERY lucky it'll actually run and get to windoze then you can run the mobo driver cd........if you are not so lucky and it does give you a nice BSOD then you can boot from your xp or 'pc co recovery cd' and go thru the process as if you are installing windoze then at an early stage it'll say 'lookin for existing windoze installations' and it'll find the verison you already have on the hdd.....at that point you then can run the 'repair' option .........it'll be VERY wlell worth your while BEFORE you do any of this to also try to retrieve the INSTALLED product key.....which cause of 'volume liscensing' systems used by manufacturers MAY be different to the C.O.A number on the sticker you have found.....above all a good piece of advice is to slave the drive to another puter FIRST and make an image of the drive so that in the event of a major prob you can re-write the image onto the drive and start again.....

Strommer
16-02-2007, 07:11 AM
Just install the new hardware then TRY to boot windoze.....if you are VERY lucky it'll actually run and get to windoze then you can run the mobo driver cd........if you are not so lucky and it does give you a nice BSOD then you can boot from your xp or 'pc co recovery cd' and go thru the process as if you are installing windoze then at an early stage it'll say 'lookin for existing windoze installations' and it'll find the verison you already have on the hdd.....at that point you then can run the 'repair' option .........it'll be VERY wlell worth your while BEFORE you do any of this to also try to retrieve the INSTALLED product key.....which cause of 'volume liscensing' systems used by manufacturers MAY be different to the C.O.A number on the sticker you have found.....above all a good piece of advice is to slave the drive to another puter FIRST and make an image of the drive so that in the event of a major prob you can re-write the image onto the drive and start again.....

Excellent advice, thanks much drcspy. I'll have a crack at getting the data off the old HD by slaving it in my desktop, and making a drive image as well.

Before booting up with the new mb installed, the big hurdle for me is to connect the mass of wires to the mb. A daunting task for someone who has not done this before. The mb came with a detailed map showing labelled connection points so this should help. I did mark a few connectors, but in the old setup there were a number of connectors not attached to anything so will these also be left unattached? Are there any common mistakes that I should avoid?

....

Foxy - I may have implied that a cd reader is necessary to copy cd's - what I meant is that it makes the process easier, quicker, without having to write to the hd.

drcspy
16-02-2007, 07:37 AM
ok the only connector from case to mobo that REALLY matters is the power button one !!! .......that one'll be pretty easy....

the others CAN be a bit of a headache but you'll get it......the one thing to be VERY careful of is.......some cases have the usb connectors in a 'block' those are pretty easy however if they dont come in a block but about five little tiny plugs you MUST be VERY careful because if you get them plugged in wrong you CAN blow the motherboard........i've done it .......arggghhh

pctek
16-02-2007, 07:41 AM
pctek said:
you need to install the board, then install Windows. A fresh install. Repairs and such don't usually work. XP is picky about new motherboards.......

yep xp is 'picky' about new mobos but i've rebuilt many with new mobos and never had any particular probs with a 'dirty -over the top-install' .......in my experience they DO usually work indeed without too much trouble at all...


I think it might depend how similar the new board is to the old one.
All the ones I've done hated it. Had to do a clean install, but then they were totally different boards to the old ones...........

Can't hurt to try first I guess.

drcspy
16-02-2007, 08:09 AM
well its certainly worth the try cause most if not all of the ones I've done were also considerably later boards than the originals and they worked fine.......the only one i really had troubles with was a winME system.....lol....

Strommer
16-02-2007, 08:14 AM
....the one thing to be VERY careful of is.......some cases have the usb connectors in a 'block' those are pretty easy however if they dont come in a block but about five little tiny plugs you MUST be VERY careful because if you get them plugged in wrong you CAN blow the motherboard........i've done it .......arggghhh

Yeeeee ! :horrified Oh that makes me feel reeaal goooood ! :lol:

Do you mean "usb connectors" from the ps ?
I don't see anything that look like usb connectors. I'll snap a photo if needed.

Thankfully the power on/off connector is labelled, and the 'sleep' connector and one or two others.

trig42
16-02-2007, 08:57 AM
The USB connectors come from the front of your case (if your case has front USB ports that is). I'm pretty sure that PC Company computers have the 5 pin arrangement (not a block). You just have to make sure that you get the Power, the + and the - in the right place. The manual for your motherboard will tell you which one to put where, if the writing on the pins is different to what the manual says, and you can't translate, then post here and we can help.

The other wires coming from the front of your case will be Power switch - and it doesn't matter which way round the pins on this go, Power LED - polarity does matter, but it wont kill anything if you get it wrong, the light just wont go, HDD LED - same as power LED and maybe a speaker - it's possible your new motherboard has a speaker built in though.

davehartley
16-02-2007, 10:15 AM
Just want to say kudos to you, Steve -- I've enjoyed lurking on your progress!

... once you've got it all together (and with the help from everyone here, that'll be no problem!), the feeling you get from booting up a machine that you've built yourself is indescribable :thumbs: (Almost as good as the feeling when your first "real" program runs :))

Strommer
16-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks trig42. Good info. I have not worked on the 'puter today but may have time later. I am going to take it slowly, studying the mb instructions/map veerry carefully. I have printed some of the advice given on this thread as well, including your's.

Dave,thanks for the encouraging comments. Hell, I replaced an old ceiling light in a bedroom last week with a modern classy unit and it felt almost as good as when I recently took our bathroom extractor fan to bits and got it working again. So yep the indescribable feeling you mention will be even better than my light and fan successes.

The easy way would have just to get another 2nd hand pc off Trademe. It was my wife's decision. I explained that the old office pc needed a "new heart - a thingie called a motherboard and processor" (it took her 2 years to learn how to turn her laptop on :groan: so any technical language would be pointless), or maybe a new bitty thing (graphics card) which may or may not fix the problem. Anyway, she liked the idea of a heart transplant but did not like getting another used 'puter or risking $70 on a graphics card. Either way I thought "Hey, new geek stuff to play with, and more geeky learning! :D ;)

Strommer
16-02-2007, 03:46 PM
I am trying to connect the HD (from the pc that I am upgrading) into my desktop, but the connectors are different.

I have removed the second hd in my desktop and have replaced it with the hd you see in the first photo:

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/HD1.jpg
In this photo you will see the Maxtor HD that needs to have data removed before putting it back into the upgraded pc. The two connectors floating on the top of the hd connected the Seagate second hd (used for backup) which is now removed. The two connectors do not fit the upgraded-pc hd.

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/HD2.jpg
This photo shows the blue connector leading from the Maxtor hd.

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/HD3.jpg
The only place I can see to plug the Maxtor blue connector is the vertical blue socket which is adjacent to the blue label "CD ROM Cable". Is this the correct place to plug in the Maxtor?

The other problem is that the Maxtor has 4 pin socket - see the first photo. This had a connector from the ps (in the pc that I am upgrading). There is no free power plug in my desktop so does this mean I need to power the Maxtor from the (upgraded pc) ps (which is now sitting on the floor not yet reinstalled)?

Speedy Gonzales
16-02-2007, 03:54 PM
First pic is a SATA cable / data cable. Not an IDE one. So, obviously wont go on an IDE hdd.

And the first SATA hdd is connected. If you've only got one SATA hdd in the case, you don't need the 2nd SATA data / power cable. Remove it.

You plug a molex connector (from the PSU to pic 1). For the power. Since the IDE cable is already plugged in, in pic 1.

All it needs is power.

The blue connector in the 2nd pic is an 80 wire cable which plugs into the IDE connection on the mobo. This is for an IDE not SATA hdd.

SATA power and data cables are not interchangeable with IDE cables obviously.

You'll have to buy a molex adapter plug thing, which will let you connect the hdd in the first pic.

Strommer
16-02-2007, 04:04 PM
8 minutes - once again a fast reply from Speedy. Thanks.

OK, lets make sure I understand your advice.

Regarding the molex connector - you mean the 4 pin plug coming from the ps that I removed - it needs to connect into the Maxtor. Correct?

The blue 80 wire connector that I am holding in the second pic can be plugged into the blue socket in photo 3. Correct?

I just don't want to fry the Maxtor and absolutely not to damage anything in my trusty desktop.

Speedy Gonzales
16-02-2007, 04:16 PM
8 minutes - once again a fast reply from Speedy.

Regarding the molex connector - you mean the 4 pin plug coming from the ps that I removed - it needs to connect into the Maxtor. Correct?

If you've run out off molex connections (the 4 pin power things), you can buy an adaptor, which is usually a male one which plugs into a spare one from the PSU, which will then give u two extra connectors so u can plug it into a cd/hdd.


The blue 80 wire connector that I am holding in the second pic can be plugged into the blue socket in photo 3. Correct?

You got it. The blue connector can either go to IDE 1 or IDE 2. It makes it faster as well, if you use an IDE cable, with the blue connector on one end.

Since the IDE cables with no blue connector are 40 wire, the blue connectors are 80 wire.

Strommer
16-02-2007, 05:03 PM
OK, I'll get to it later tonight or tomorrow as we are going out soon. Its a good thing my wife tolerates the dining table filled up with 2 pcs, tools, bits and pieces. ;)

Will the ps that I removed power up as a stand-alone unit? Or do pwr supplies only work when connected up to the mb and power on switch?

In the desktop (not the pc being upgraded) I could unplug a molex going to the floppy and use it to power the Maxtor. I would have to cut a cable tie but it should then reach. Am I on the right path here?

Speedy Gonzales
16-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Will the ps that I removed power up as a stand-alone unit? Or do pwr supplies only work when connected up to the mb and power on switch?

What do u mean stand alone unit? If you mean by itself without putting the connections/plugs (from the PSU) on a mobo, it should just plug it in turn it on.


In the desktop (not the pc being upgraded) I could unplug a molex going to the floppy and use it to power the Maxtor. I would have to cut a cable tie but it should then reach. Am I on the right path here?

If there's a spare molex on the same cable as the thinner power thing for floppies and it can reach the hdd, sure it should be ok.

Strommer
17-02-2007, 07:15 AM
Progress report:

I connected the molex power cable to the Maxtor hd (the one I want to get data off of). The molex connector had an adaptor on it and was originally connecting the Seagate hd (the secondary back-up hd in my desktop). AFter disconnecting the adaptor lead, all I had to do was cut a cable tie so that the cable would reach.

The blue connector from the Maxtor was put into the blue socket as shown in photo 3 (url above).

Reconnected everything and was very pleased to have the desktop working normally. But the Maxtor is not there - My Computer does not show the Maxtor. Maybe I did not push hard enough on the molex power plug and the blue IDE plug, although they looked like they went in correctly.

Before I go back in and check that the connectors are pressed in far enough, is there anything else I should be aware of?

BTW, I left the red cable (see photos) that is from the mb and connected to the Seagate hd. That is, I did not remove the red cable and one end is still plugged into the mb, the other end is floating free.

Speedy Gonzales
17-02-2007, 07:20 AM
But the Maxtor is not there - My Computer does not show the Maxtor. Maybe I did not push hard enough on the molex power plug and the blue IDE plug, although they looked like they went in correctly.

What now?

Does the BIOS / post screen detect / show the Maxtor?

If it does, thats a good sign.

Is the Maxtor a new hdd, with nothing on it??

If it is go to control panel / admin tools / computer management / disk management. Does the Maxtor appear here as unallocated? If it does u need to format it, then it'll appear in My computer.

Strommer
17-02-2007, 07:25 AM
Good morning Speedy. I did not think you would be online now!
See my post above - I edited it while you replied.

I did not look at the screen during boot up. Lets see, I need to press F8 or Delete during boot up to get into the BIOS screen?

The Maxtor has data on it, plus WinXP. It is from the pc I am upgrading. I need to get the data off it, burned on to CDs and then put back on the upgraded pc.

Speedy Gonzales
17-02-2007, 07:33 AM
The blue connector from the Maxtor was put into the blue socket as shown in photo 3 (url above).

Try putting the blue connector / Maxtor on the other IDE connector on the mobo.

If the BIOS doesn't detect it that is..Whats on the other IDE connector on the mobo? If its the CD, put the Maxtor on the Primary IDE connector (if you can), and the cd / dvd (if its on IDE1 on IDE 2 (the blue connector).


Reconnected everything and was very pleased to have the desktop working normally. But the Maxtor is not there - My Computer does not show the Maxtor. Maybe I did not push hard enough on the molex power plug and the blue IDE plug, although they looked like they went in correctly.

See my previous post.


Before I go back in and check that the connectors are pressed in far enough, is there anything else I should be aware of?

Make%

Speedy Gonzales
17-02-2007, 07:51 AM
Ah stupid server is lagging, it killed my reply in the last quote. And I cant remember what I said lol.

Strommer
17-02-2007, 08:11 AM
Ugh. Problem: my desktop now hangs. WinXP starts but when it gets to loading my email program, Pegasus Mail, it hangs and I cannot End Program via Task Manager.

Here is what I found from the BIOS screen:

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/bios_1.jpg

and

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/bios_2.jpg

Which is my desktop's main hd, a Seagate 120 Gb ?

Recap: on first boot up all was OK except the Maxtor was not there, and I used the desktop to post above. (Now on laptop.) Then I went into the BIOS screen and took the two photos then exited without changing anything. But then it hung when booting again. What the...??

Speedy - the other IDE (blue) connector on the mb is connected to either the DVD writer or DVD reader (there are two units).


Sorry, must go offline now and do some things in town until the afternoon (otherwise wifey will not be so nice anymore!!).

Strommer
17-02-2007, 08:18 AM
Selected 4M-ST...(etc) and rebooted. Now OK. Not sure what is going on.

Maxtor still not in My Computer.

Back this afternoon...

Speedy Gonzales
17-02-2007, 10:39 AM
Hmm the dvd's look like theyre connected OK, and as u said the Maxtor isnt there. I take it the SS-LNT526D is one of the dvd's?

The Maxtor should appear where it says Master Primary, if its jumpered to Master. I take it if u go into Primary Master or Slave, (in the BIOS) the Maxtor doesnt appear there either?

Only other reason why the Maxtor isnt getting detected is the IDE cable on it is bung or something?

Does the IDE cable on the Maxtor work, if u connect it to the DVD's??

Or does the Maxtor work if u swap it with the IDE cable going to whatever IDE connection the DVD'S are plugged into on the mobo?

Or if the power adapter (if you're using a molex power adaptor (which I dont think u r.. you're using one of the molex plugs directly from the PSU arent you)? They have a tendency to come loose (the pins in them,. so they dont make contact properly).

Strommer
18-02-2007, 11:22 AM
Progress Report: Success with the Maxtor!

Busy yesterday until late so could not get onto the PCs until recently.
Speedy, the damn Molex connector was not pushed in all the way - thought I had checked that it was but was in a hurry to meet my wife in town (had to help set up a big event with her) so that is all it was - no power to Maxtor.

But my desktop would not boot at all so fiddled with BIOS settings - then it hung on the Welcome screen - so I fiddled around with BIOS settings a few times more - I used the power cable off the floppy for the Maxtor so this probably was the problem - floppy needed disabling or what not sure but whatever I did it worked but it took several boot failures and BIOS config changes.

Now all the data is off the Maxtor so I can start making CDs in order to transfer it to the upgraded office PC... when I get the mb all connected!
Could borrow a friends 1Gb stick or use my 256 stick, but it would be good to have all data on CD as back up (no DVD reader on the office PC).

Friends have arrived so will get back here later today.

BTW, for some reason my desktop tried booting from the Maxtor (because it was the Primary IDE Master ??) but no go at all. Had to select the normal boot hd.

Speedy, yes the SS-LNT526D is a DVD reader.

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 12:12 PM
Good to hear its going anyway! And u got what u wanted off it.

Yup I had the same prob with this sata hdd here, the adapter to SATA power connector I had, damn thing kept on coming out and that stopped it from booting too.

In the end I got a PSU with a SATA power plug on it, that fixed it once and for all!

If the Maxtor is a slave jumper it to slave/master, (on secondary IDE primary/secondary connection by itself (if its the only IDE hdd u have now), if the dvds are on primary IDE.

And the SATA wont be affected (and u can boot from that) later. You can use the old hdd if u want (just format it) after u get whatever off it. Just remember to jumper it properly and put it on the secondary IDE connection (since hdds shouldnt go on the same IDE as dvd's etc.)

Strommer
18-02-2007, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the reply Speedy. All data is now on CDs, plus I am putting it on DVD as well even though the office PC does not have a DVD reader at this time.

The mb awaits connecting. I will get on to this and will get back with my progress. Of course I will first have to take out the Maxtor and put back the Seagate, reboot and hope to see all as normal. Never having replaced a HD before, I am surprised that it is much easier than I imagined. Changing BIOS settings used to be a complete mystery for me. If it wasn't for you and others here on PF1, I'd still be in the dark. I remember a few years ago taking my old PC to get the local shop to install a CD writer. What a joke - when I found out for myself how easy it is to do, I felt ripped off. (But small businesses have to make $$ somehow so more power to them).

Back later. Stay tuned...

Strommer
18-02-2007, 04:31 PM
The Maxtor hd has been removed and the Seagate backup HD is now back in my desktop where it belongs and all works :cool: fine.

Now back to connecting the new mb in the office pc...

Questions:

This photo is from the mb instructions, showing the place where the wires from the front panel connect.
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/2frtpanel41171772339.jpg

This photo shows the front panel wires with their connectors.
The connector shown in the instructions (above photo) is at the right corner
of the mb, labelled FP1 on the mb.
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/frontpanel.jpg

Q1. I managed to fit in the HDD LED connector, Reset SW, and Power SW, but the Power LED connector is too large to fit. Do I go to DSE or a local PC shop and get either a smaller connector for the Power LED wires, or is there one connector that I can put all wires (instead of 4 seperate connectors)? Nothing of the sort was supplied with the mb.

Q2. The Sleep Sw connector is floating free and I cannot as yet see anywhere on the mb to put it but I believe desktops do not usually have a sleep switch so should I just leave it unconnected?

Q3. There are two IDE sockets. The white one is labeled SIDE, and the blue one is labeled PIDE. Which one do I use for the CD Writer?

Q4 The speaker (on the front panel of the pc) wires are orange and black - see photo above - and I connected it to the mb although I noticed 3 prongs sticking up from the mb but there are only 2 wires from that little speaker. I don't think this matters but if the whole mb will go up in smoke because of this difference someone better tell me. :lol:

BTW, there was also a CD Reader which I have removed and will not put back in. There is a socket labeled 'Floppy' and of course I connected the floppy drive to that. Some things are :p easy although floppies may never be used anymore.

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 04:45 PM
The connector shown in the instructions (above photo) is at the right corner of the mb, labelled FP1 on the mb.

Never heard of PF1. I wouldnt worry about it, all u have to connect is P-LED/IDE-LED/PWR (for the power), and reset to the front of the case.


Power LED connector is too large to fit. Do I go to DSE or a local PC shop and get either a smaller connector for the Power LED wires, or is there one connector that I can put all wires

I had the very same prob with this, all I did was get something like a razor blade or something sharp and cut down the middle of that connector.. So the wire in it comes out, (then connect it to the mobo header), or if the end part of that connector is empty, splice the end of it off. Just dont cut the wire!


The Sleep Sw connector is floating free and I cannot as yet see anywhere on the mb to put it but I believe desktops do not usually have a sleep switch so should I just leave it unconnected?

Yup, I dont think these have the sleep SW either. I would leave it off.


There are two IDE sockets. The white one is labeled SIDE, and the blue one is labeled PIDE. Which one do I use for the CD Writer?

Never heard of PIDE or SIDE. Whats the mobo brand/model?

Oh P sounds like Primary IDE S - Secondary IDE Doh.

It shouldn't matter if nothing else is on PIDE or SIDE but the cd.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 05:12 PM
I had the very same prob with this, all I did was get something like a razor blade or something sharp and cut down the middle of that connector.. So the wire in it comes out, (then connect it to the mobo header), or if the end part of that connector is empty, splice the end of it off. Just dont cut the wire!
A clever solution. It will be fun trying to cut that connector in half but if I take it slow it should be OK.


Never heard of PF1. I wouldnt worry about it, all u have to connect is P-LED/IDE-LED/PWR (for the power), and reset to the front of the case.
FP1 just means Front Panel 1. OK, all I have to do is cut that Power LED connector. :stare:

Yep, I thought the IDE sockets must be Primary and Secondary so its good to know that it does not matter where the CDWriter goes.

Once I slice that connector, I'll put in the ps. The ATX, Floppy. HD and CDWriter appear straightforward to connect. There are numerous other connectors from the ps so I'll see if any of them makes sense but will check back here before putting power to it.

Jen
18-02-2007, 05:23 PM
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/frontpanel.jpg
Do you have the motherboard touching that nylon(?) carpet? :horrified Put the computer on newspaper or some other surface away from possible static build up.

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Once I slice that connector, I'll put in the ps. The ATX, Floppy. HD and CDWriter appear straightforward to connect.

There are numerous other connectors from the ps so I'll see if any of them makes sense but with check back here before putting power to it.

If there's only the sata the cd writer and the floppy. The thinner power adaptor thing from the PSU goes to the floppy obviously, the molex to the cd. And the extension for the SATA to the SATA.

The 20 pin ATX connector from the PSU goes to the 20 pin connector on the mobo (you can't miss this, it's the long white thing on the mobo).

And if the mobo has a 2x2 plug (this is important, as if the connector from the PSU isnt plugged into this, it wont turn on), the 2x2 plug / adapter from the PSU plugs into this.

And dont forget the CPU fan as well.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Hi Jen. Ha - I was waiting for someone to :D point this out. It is not a nylon carpet but an ordinary cotton towel, on a wood table. I ground myself to the chassis (bare metal - not a painted section) and also wear a wrist strap, and any time I pick up a tool I ground that to metal as well. Some times we get static in the house but nothing these days even though it is dry. I did freak when a friend came over and went right up and stuck his hand in the pc! He knows about static though and was just trying to c*ap me out, which he did.:lol:

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 05:37 PM
That power LED connector, since there's nothing in the middle (where its got power LED written on it), just cut it in 1/2.

Then you'll have 2 separate connectors. Then connect them to the mobo header.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 05:38 PM
And dont forget the CPU fan as well.

Thanks. That was the first one I connected, just after doing the CPU and fan.

I've printed your advice and will try to make sense of it all.
Taking it slow. (Gotta eat first.) Stay tuned...

Strommer
18-02-2007, 05:40 PM
That power LED connector, since there's nothing in the middle (where its got power LED written on it), just cut it in 1/2.

Then you'll have 2 separate connectors. Then connect them to the mobo header.

Got it. Thanks. I'll be happy if there is no blood as a result!

Greven
18-02-2007, 05:41 PM
Most motherboards have 2 possible connectors for the power LED (a 2 pin one & a 3 pin one), but I didn't see a 3 pin one on your motherboard.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 06:32 PM
And if the mobo has a 2x2 plug (this is important, as if the connector from the PSU isnt plugged into this, it wont turn on), the 2x2 plug / adapter from the PSU plugs into this.

Speedy I have looked at all the psu leads and have it figured out ok except for the 2x2 plug that you mention. What does it look like and where would it connect to? I'll snap a photo of all the psu leads if necessary.

There is one set of four wires not connected to the psu itself but attached to a cable tie. Here it is:
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_or_wat.jpg
I put a bit of cello tape on one end to remind myself that it was connected to the old mb. But I do not remember where the other end is connected - maybe to the USB unit (taken off the old mb's PCI slot and put into the new mb PCI slot - along with a dial up modem in another PCI slot). I guess it is possible that the previous owner had something else connected to the free end.
....now I do not know if this is relevant but drspy wrote above:

the others CAN be a bit of a headache but you'll get it......the one thing to be VERY careful of is.......some cases have the usb connectors in a 'block' those are pretty easy however if they dont come in a block but about five little tiny plugs you MUST be VERY careful because if you get them plugged in wrong you CAN blow the motherboard........i've done it .......arggghhh

Maybe I should snap a photo of the USB-on-PCI slot unit, but if its plugged into the mb it would not make sense that it would need a separate four wire connecter attaching somewhere else on the mb...?:confused:

Oh - that Power LED connector cut very easily. It was just a delicate fiddle to get each section onto the mb prongs, especially since I put in the Maxtor which cramped my hand up.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 07:04 PM
And if the mobo has a 2x2 plug

Sorry, I see now that you mean a plug on the mb, not from the psu.

I should have had this info earlier for you...
Its a Foxconn mb. See here:
http://www.foxconnchannel.com/product/motherboard_detail.aspx?ID=en-us0000074

For those reading this who are high end users with $$$ systems, remember that this is a budget upgrade for an office PC.

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Ok the top arrow (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/mobo1171784796.jpg) is the ATX 2x2 adaptor. There's only one plug on the PSU that'll fit it. And it'll only go one way. This is for the CPU to give it juice.

The arrow pointing to the USB headers (note the hole in both with no pin).

The pin beside it is gnd and the pin opposite (the pin beside the hole) is also gnd). The 5th pin opposite the hole is also gnd but isnt used (hence why the pic u posted on the USB only has 4 wires).

So, if those USB cables in your pic are labelled something like +5 -5 vcc gnd, the wires saying gnd go on the USB headers, so the gnd wire plugs into the pin beside the holes and the 4th pin on the other / opposite side

Strommer
18-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Ok the top arrow (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/mobo1171784796.jpg) is the ATX 2x2 adaptor. There's only one plug on the PSU that'll fit it. And it'll only go one way. This is for the CPU to give it juice.

OK. See it clearly now - both on the mb and from the psu. Don't know how I missed it before. Thanks. It is termed ATX 12 v power connector - and I can see why you call it a 2x2.

The arrow pointing to the USB headers (note the hole in both with no pin).
The pin beside it is gnd and the pin opposite (the pin beside the hole) is also gnd). The 5th pin opposite the hole is also gnd but isnt used (hence why the pic u posted on the USB only has 4 wires).

So, if those USB cables in your pic are labelled something like +5 -5 vcc gnd, the wires saying gnd go on the USB headers, so the gnd wire plugs into the pin beside the holes and the 4th pin on the other / opposite side.

Those USB Headers are termed Front USB Connectors (I am referring to the mb map/instructions). They are detailed on the map here:
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/2frtpanel_3.jpg
and can be seen here:
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/PCI_.jpg
...which is next to the usb unit that I put in the PCI slot.

Speedy as you know I am a novice and am on a steep learning curve here. So I have to admit that I do not understand about these USB Header sockets on the mb. They are termed "Front" so does this refer to USB sockets on the front panel of the PC (of which there are none, only on the back from that PCI unit). From where to where do these connect? I see nothing from the psu that would fit, and there are no extra wires with connectors that match... or I should say I cannot see anything as yet. This is the last thing I am uptight about since drspy said connecting these wrong may blow the mb. :help:

Thanks.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Most motherboards have 2 possible connectors for the power LED (a 2 pin one & a 3 pin one), but I didn't see a 3 pin one on your motherboard.

Thanks Greven.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 08:45 PM
The 5th pin opposite the hole is also gnd but isnt used (hence why the pic u posted on the USB only has 4 wires).

Sorry - missed that bit. But I still do not understand. The wires I posted here http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_or_wat.jpg
.... are only one set, and the connectors on the mb have 8 pins each. :confused:

Speedy Gonzales
18-02-2007, 08:59 PM
The USB headers on the mobo are usually used, if u have front USB ports on the front of the case. Or if u have something like an internal card reader.

Or if u have a bracket (so it gets screwed in at the back of the case).

So you get extra USB ports (apart from the USB on the back of the mobo/case).

If u dont have front USB ports or a bracket, or dont use a card reader, dont worry about the USB headers. They cant/wont be used. Until u change the case to one with front USB ports.

OTOH, If u have a PCI USB card, the USB plugs (u posted) dont go on it.

The PCI USB card is as is. Plug it in a PCI slot, the USB ports on it are available.

I'm not too sure what the connection on the PCI card is for, I'm pretty sure I have the same card actually, as the other plug on it (like a floppy's), it can be powered so it gives it extra power. I think there's a jumper on this PCI card to switch between PCI and power.

The extra port on the PCI card isn't for the connection for the USB wires u posted. Those USB cables u posted they're only one set as u said so both of them go on one USB header (if u connected them to a USB header).

So these USB wires/ plugs u posted are from the other PC right? Not part of the case, this mobo is in now??

If theyre from the old case, it must have had front USB ports, and the case the mobo is in now hasnt got any. So they wont be used.

Strommer
18-02-2007, 09:27 PM
So these USB wires/ plugs u posted are from the other PC right? Not part of the case, this mobo is in now??

If theyre from the old case, it must have had front USB ports, and the case the mobo is in now hasnt got any. So they wont be used.

Nice explanation - thanks again.
Yes, those wires I posted are from the old mb. The cello tape I put on one end was to remind me that it was connected... but was it to the mb or something else?? - I should have written a note or taken a few photos!! But now I suspect that the previous owner may have done some tinkering, changing things. I recall he said something about the usb ports on the back of the case (the 4 PCI ones) - that he connected them or something. AFAIK he could have made a lot of changes but he just did not see the techie type unless a friend of his did the work.

So anyway, there are no usb connectors on the front of the case, and no bracket on the back of the case. Only the PCI usb's. So I will leave those USB Header sockets on the mb empty, unconnected.

I've been busy today with other projects and will call it quits for today. Tomorrow I should be able to handle doing the psu connections.

When I first hit the Power On switch, would it be best to go straight into the BIOS settings rather than trying to boot up XP from the old HD? There are a series of BIOS settings that came with the mb - nice screen shots. Some seem as though they can be dealt with later, such as Super Boot and Super Recovery. I'll have to re-read to see if any should be done at 1st boot. OTOH I suppose the worst that could happen is the BSOD and then hitting the Reset button.

feersumendjinn
18-02-2007, 10:43 PM
Sorry - missed that bit. But I still do not understand. The wires I posted here http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_or_wat.jpg
.... are only one set, and the connectors on the mb have 8 pins each


Sorry to interfere, but to me those cables/plugs look like audio (not USB!) from (or to ) cd drive/s.:eek: :2cents:

davehartley
18-02-2007, 11:13 PM
Sorry to interfere, but to me those cables/plugs look like audio (not USB!) from (or to ) cd drive/s.:eek: :2cents:

Yes, I agree -- that's what they look like :thumbs:

Strommer
19-02-2007, 06:49 AM
Yes, I agree -- that's what they look like :thumbs:

Thanks guys. Yes they fit. I did notice that there was nothing connecting the CD Writer audio but decided it probably would not be used.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 07:48 AM
Thinking about these wires http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_or_wat.jpg
... I have one concern. On the mb and on the CD Writer, it shows a one-way connection, that is, a notch is along one side. But the connectors + 4 wires that I have can be put in either way, 180 degrees - there is no notch, just a regular rectangular piece of plastic.

AFAIK audio will not have polarity. It is not DC. But I don't know why there would be 4 wires (the mb and CDWriter have 4 prongs). So I am inclined to err on the side of caution and leave these wires out. Anyone know for sure?

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 07:53 AM
So anyway, there are no usb connectors on the front of the case, and no bracket on the back of the case. Only the PCI usb's. So I will leave those USB Header sockets on the mb empty, unconnected.

Yup! Just hold onto those cables tho, they can come in handy for something.


When I first hit the Power On switch, would it be best to go straight into the BIOS settings rather than trying to boot up XP from the old HD? There are a series of BIOS settings that came with the mb - nice screen shots. Some seem as though they can be dealt with later, such as Super Boot and Super Recovery. I'll have to re-read to see if any should be done at 1st boot. OTOH I suppose the worst that could happen is the BSOD and then hitting the Reset button.

Normally its a good idea to go into the BIOS and reconfigure things.

Before you boot into XP. (esp if you've reinstalled windows, or something).

Also, with mobos that have SATA, they may have an option in the BIOS, saying something like enhanced mode (under the IDE section), this should be on, and it may also have something like SATA+PATA, SATA, or just PATA.

I would put this on SATA+PATA. Thats if u use IDE too, or just put it on SATA, if the SATA is the only hdd in the case.

I've never seen that SUper boot or Recovery option .

Yup, just post the screens in the BIOS when you're ready, and we should be
able to figure out what should enabled/disabled etc.

davehartley
19-02-2007, 10:24 AM
Thinking about these wires http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_or_wat.jpgAFAIK audio will not have polarity. It is not DC. But I don't know why there would be 4 wires (the mb and CDWriter have 4 prongs). So I am inclined to err on the side of caution and leave these wires out. Anyone know for sure?

Yup -- you have a left and a right signal, both of which have a signal and a ground line ... hence, 4 wires.

The worst thing that would happen is you end up with your left channel coming out of your right speaker :D

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 10:40 AM
That old case the front USB connection/s, must have had a PCB with the pins (jutting out), so the USB cables you posted plug into them (then onto the mobo USB header).

Coz most cases (now) that have front USB ports on them, the USB cables (that go on the USB headers) are wired (from the front of the case, you take it thru the front to the header on the mobo, they cant come off), they're part of the front of the case.

And you wouldnt be able to remove them from the front of the case. Unless you had a soldering iron. To solder them back on.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Also, with mobos that have SATA, they may have an option in the BIOS, saying something like enhanced mode (under the IDE section), this should be on, and it may also have something like SATA+PATA, SATA, or just PATA.

I would put this on SATA+PATA. Thats if u use IDE too, or just put it on SATA, if the SATA is the only hdd in the case.

OK, will put the 4 wire cables for later use, and will boot into the BIOS.

Now for yet another stupid beginner's question. The HD is an old 40 Gb ATA. Not SATA. I know HDs started to change around 3 yrs ago from ATA to SATA. But I am not sure if this makes any difference to the setting you mention above: "SATA+PATA, SATA, or just PATA.".

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 01:47 PM
If you've got a SATA and ATA in the case, put it on SATA+PATA. If this option is in the BIOS. The P means the same as ATA, someone just decided to called it Parallel ATA.

I'm not too sure what these options actually do, they may speed the hdds up or something (how I dont know). The reason will be in the manual for this mobo somewhere.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Hey hey hey - I am in the BIOS settings now - NO BIG BANG OR SMOKE when I turned it on!!! :thumbs: :cool:

Both fans are going. Quiet too.

One thing I have not connected is the floppy. I clearly marked the exact connector when I removed the old mb. There are 4 wires: red black black yellow. The connector (attached to the wires) has a protruding ridge indicating that it goes in only one way, but on the floppy drive itself the socket with protruding prongs have no notch and therefore the connector can be inserted both ways, 180 degrees different - I tried both ways, then have left it disconnected for the time being.

FWIW, the clock was on Chinese time, 5 hrs different. Date OK. This impressed me. Now changed to NZ time.

More to come... I am working through the instructions that came with the mb...

Strommer
19-02-2007, 02:37 PM
Leaving the BIOS settings as this (have not changed anything):

IDE Channel 0 Master = Maxtor (with the hd alphanumeric)

IDE Channel 1 Master = CD-RW

Drive A 1.44M 3.5in ....there is no power to the floppy but I did connect the ribbon of wires.

RAM - seems OK, near enough to 512 Mb

Now going into HD settings. May need help here....

Strommer
19-02-2007, 02:44 PM
Maxtor HD seems OK. It lists capacity, etc.

Still looking for boot priority sequence....

Adding the mb drivers from the CD provided: I assume this can only be done after WinXP is working, so I won't try booting from this CD.

Eventually I will try booting straight from the Maxtor hd, but not placing much hope on this. Then will try putting in the Recovery CD that came with the PC, which accesses the Recovery partition on the hd, but not placing much hope on this either.

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 03:02 PM
Maxtor HD seems OK. It lists capacity, etc.

Still looking for boot priority sequence....

Adding the mb drivers from the CD provided: I assume this can only be done after WinXP is working, so I won't try booting from this CD.

Correct mobo drivers are installed after installing XP. Mobo drivers, then the LAN/Sound etc. If you're going to install SP2 on it, if the mobo cd has USB drivers on it, theyre not needed. Altho some mobos with SATA are pretty fussy, if the SATA is connected and isnt recognised, the mobo cd may have drivers for it. You have to extract them to floppy and put the disk in by pressing F6 during the XP install. This doesnt apply to ALL SATA's tho.


Eventually I will try booting straight from the Maxtor hd, but not placing much hope on this. Then will try putting in the Recovery CD that came with the PC, which accesses the Recovery partition on the hd, but not placing much hope on this either.

This MAY or MAY NOT work

Hey hey hey - I am in the BIOS settings now - NO BIG BANG OR SMOKE when I turned it on!!!


Both fans are going. Quiet too.

Thats a good sign at least its going!

So whats in the case now? The Maxtor, the SATA the cd and the floppy?

The Maxtor is the old hdd right? Not the SATA?

What does the BIOS detect the SATA as? Is the SATA getting detected?

Strommer
19-02-2007, 03:16 PM
So whats in the case now? The Maxtor, the SATA the cd and the floppy?

I put back the old Maxtor hd. The CDwriter is connected and detected. The floppy is in the case (never removed it) but no power, so it comes up as Floppy Failed on one of the boot up screens.

I tried booting from the Maxtor, but no go. No surprise here.
Looking for the Recovery CD - somewhere in the mess - not placing much hope on this.

The Maxtor is the old hdd right? Not the SATA?
Yes the Maxtor is the old hdd. I may have led you wrong about having a SATA hdd as there is only the Maxtor in this office pc that I am upgrading. In my desktop are two SATA hdd's.

What does the BIOS detect the SATA as? Is the SATA getting detected?
If you are referring to SATA as something other than the hdd, I am lost here. Speedy, I have taken a bunch of BIOS screen shots. I hope you don't mind me uploading them. I only have changed the boot sequence to try the Maxtor but will change it back to boot 1st from the CD (and I disabled the floppy from booting). The other change I made was to select a warning if the CPU goes over 65 degrees (it was the middle of 3 choices, I think it is 65).

Thanks for 'standing alongside me'.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 03:30 PM
Image F1 is down. Cannot upload screenshots. Will try later.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Image F1 OK now. Uploading 13 screenshots (my guess is that most all of the BIOS settings can be left as is so hopefully this will not be too onerous for you).

Instead of listing each URL, try going here:
http://imagef1.net.nz/?page=list
...and start with the first screenshot that I posted.

Look for my user name (Steve_L) and the date (2007-02-19).

The first screenshot is labeled Boot_

All other are labeled BIOS_

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Ah ok then. Gotcha now.

From your previous post

IDE Channel 0 Master = Maxtor (with the hd alphanumeric)

IDE Channel 1 Master = CD-RW

That looks ok to me.

Check the boot menu.... See if the hdd is the default... Altho if it isnt and there's no cd in the cd, it should "go down" to the next drive which should be the hdd (thats if the hdd appears in the boot menu).

You may have to do a system repair if u can find out how to.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 04:17 PM
Using the Recovery CD that came with the PC.
Please see this screenshot:
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/recovery.jpg

When asked for the Admin password I just pressed Enter. If there ever was a password I have no idea what it is, and we never have been prompted for it.

You can see where I am at the prompt. Hitting Enter just returns to the same command line.

Now what?

(Of course the other option is to choose:Set Up WinXP,
and bypass the Recovery Console.)

Strommer
19-02-2007, 04:22 PM
Searching my desktop hd, I found a html file from the MS Knowledge Base.
Dunno.... I have used the Recovery Console (with other computers) before but have not been asked for a password.

The Recovery Console provides system repair and recovery functionality.
Type EXIT to quit the Recovery Console and restart the computer.

1: C:\WINDOWS

Which Windows Installation would you like to log on to
(To cancel, press ENTER)?
After you enter the number for the appropriate Windows installation, Windows will then prompt you to enter the Administrator account password.

Note If you use an incorrect password three times, the Windows Recovery Console quits. Also, if the Security Accounts Manager (SAM) database is missing or damaged, you cannot use the Windows Recovery Console because you cannot have correct authentication. After you enter your password and the Windows Recovery Console starts, type exit to restart the computer.

When you use Windows XP Professional, you can set group policies to enable automatic administrative logon.

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Yer I've never used the recovery console so wouldnt know how to fix it.

Only other thing u could do (but I dont think u can) as stated here (http://www.alegsa.com.ar/N/i70/Recovery%20console%20password.php)

The password is sometimes blank. So, try just pressing enter when you are asked for a password, it may help.

Or, if you can get into XP, even safe mode, you can arrange to bypass
the password by the following registry change:

Instead, just run REGEDIT (Start Run Regedit)

Navigate to

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsNT\Cu rrentVersion\Setup\Recover
yConsole

Set the DWORD SecurityLevel value to 1

Strommer
19-02-2007, 04:49 PM
Well, "blank" does not work so either there was a password once, or it may be on the CD which I cannot remove now, or trying to Repair just will not work. So I'll try the other option.

Stay tuned... ;)

Strommer
19-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Installing WinXP now. Using the Recovery CD, I simply chose Install WinXP and then chose Repair. The serial number from COA sticker on the side panel works so all seems fine so far. Will do the mb drivers, then will check this thread to see if any BIOS settings need changing. After that this thread should taper off!

Strommer
19-02-2007, 05:56 PM
Repair worked perfectly. All data retained exactly as it was before the old mb fizzled. Sweet!

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 06:06 PM
Cool good stuff ! :thumbs:

All u have to do in the BIOS really, is set it to its default settings, make sure USB is on hispeed (480 not 11 for USB 1.1), (I take it the mobo has USB 2 ports)?

Change the date/time to today. Umm put it on PATA, since you're only using ATA not SATA (if the option is there). Put PnP on Y.

Enable the floppy, if you want to use it (after u connect it that is).

Also make sure (with the floppy and hdd the blue/red stripe (on one side of the cable) is connected to pin one of the floppy and pin 1 of the hdd (obviously the hdd is right), since the BIOS detects it.

Otherwise neither will work.

People do put the cable on the floppy the wrong way round, and wonder why its not going !

Thats about it really.

Then change the boot disk to the hdd save the settings. And reboot!

Also make sure to turn off the boot virus option before u save the settings.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 08:05 PM
This is the closest I came to adjusting USB 2.0 (to enable high speed, not just USB 1.0):
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_bios__001.jpg
....and....
http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/usb_bios__002.jpg

I went into Device Manager and saw a long list under the USB Controllers. No yellow flags. Right clicked on a couple to update driver while the mobo drivers CD was in place but it would not update. Auto update would not work from CD - instead a Notepad text said to go to Device Mgr, etc.

Is there any way to see if USB 2.0 is working?
I tried transferring about 50 Mb to/from a USB mem stick and it seemed OK but it has been so long since I used USB 1.0 that I am not sure.

put it on PATA, since you're only using ATA not SATA (if the option is there). Put PnP on Y

In the BIOS settings I disabled "SiS Serial ATA Controller". Snapped a screen shot but figured that I am loading too many images for you.

All in all the PC boots up and shuts down A-OK.
And all the data is there so I did not have to transfer the backed up data off the 4 CDs. Very pleased about this, and of course that the PC did not blow up when first switched on!!

All drivers are now updated, via the mobo CD (except USB 2.0).

Last concern: the old case does not seem to have many vents for cooling. And the CPU fan is half covered (with a 1 or 2 cm gap) by the PSU. I'll just have to replace the side panels and see how hot things get. I reset the CPU temperature warning to the lowest setting, 60 degrees. It is a midi case, not as tall as my desktop case (3G P4 with a separate air funnel thing from the CPU fan to side panel). Do you think the Sempron will overheat?

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Is there any way to see if USB 2.0 is working?

All drivers are now updated, via the mobo CD (except USB 2.0).

Install SP1/2 if it wasn't slipstreamed or part of whatever you used to reinstall/repair XP. Or if it wasnt on the hdd before u did the repair.

Press the windows key and pause (if the kb has a windows key to see if an SP is installed).

That way u wont need the USB 2 drivers from the mobo cd. Once SP2 is installed (if it isnt already), go to the USB controller entry in device manager and delete whats under it, then reboot. Sometimes, this has to be done for USB 2 to work properly.


Last concern: the old case does not seem to have many vents for cooling. And the CPU fan is half covered (with a 1 or 2 cm gap) by the PSU. I'll just have to replace the side panels and see how hot things get. I reset the CPU temperature warning to the lowest setting, 60 degrees. It is a midi case, not as tall as my desktop case (3G P4 with a separate air funnel thing from the CPU fan to side panel). Do you think the Sempron will overheat?

Not sure, I've never had an AMD or Sempron CPU, so dont know how hot they can get. BUT, if it does, hopefully it should turn the system off if it does get hot.

The BIOS settings looks OK to me, but whoever owns this PC, if they decide to install a SATA later, the Sis SATA mode option in the 1st pic needs to be enabled. So, it'll work.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 08:45 PM
Install SP1/2 if it wasn't slipstreamed or part of whatever you used to reinstall/repair XP. Or if it wasnt on the hdd before u did the repair. Press the windows key and pause (if the kb has a windows key to see if an SP is installed).

That way u wont need the USB 2 drivers from the mobo cd. Once SP2 is installed (if it isnt already), go to the USB controller entry in device manager and delete whats under it, then reboot. Sometimes, this has to be done for USB 2 to work properly.

SP1 is installed but not SP2. I am reluctant to install SP2 - it causes some systems to be slower, and we do not need the security features (use Zone Alarm and Avast but not on internet anyway). The office PC sometimes has a transfer of photos to/from a USB mem stick and if people complain that it is too slow I will change things.

BTW, I am getting that "Reactive in 3 days or we at MS will death ray you and your PC" message. I will either use a friend's dial up account (might still have their p/w etc) or will ring MS and see how friendly they are.

Thanks for your patience. Jen and others have been very helpful as well. I have learned a great deal. People coming over to our house and seeing PC guts spewed on the table were very impressed and to them I am a 'puter expert or at least :nerd: Geek Supreme. :lol:

Some of the questions I have had now seem so basic. Its been a good challenge.

:thumbs: Could not have done it without PF1. :thumbs:

Strommer
19-02-2007, 08:46 PM
Not sure, I've never had an AMD or Sempron CPU, so dont know how hot they can get. BUT, if it does, hopefully it should turn the system off if it does get hot.

Generally speaking do most CPU's shut down if they get too hot?

Greven
19-02-2007, 09:00 PM
Not sure, I've never had an AMD or Sempron CPU, so dont know how hot they can get. BUT, if it does, hopefully it should turn the system off if it does get hot.

Generally speaking do most CPU's shut down if they get too hot?

Most modern ones. I'm fairly sure it is a motherboard feature - it monitors the CPU temp & shuts down if it gets too hot.

Jen
19-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Well done on the motherboard swap Steve. Good to hear you got the OS to repair OK with the recovery disk and managed to retain your data. :)

Now that you had a taste of it, how long will it be before you decide to assembly a new PC completely from scratch for yourself? :p


Good work as well Speedy with the assistance. :)

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 09:09 PM
Not sure, I've never had an AMD or Sempron CPU, so dont know how hot they can get. BUT, if it does, hopefully it should turn the system off if it does get hot.

Generally speaking do most CPU's shut down if they get too hot?

AFAIK the more recent CPU's do.


SP1 is installed but not SP2. I am reluctant to install SP2 - it causes some systems to be slower

SP2 only really plays up if there's Spyware/malware on a system, and u dont get rid of it, BEFORE u install SP2.

Dont know if you'll be updating this system, BUT quite a few updates/fixes require SP2. BUT, since its not on the net, it may not matter. Altho, there's no point in having Avast either, as it needs the net to update.

As it'll be out of date.


Thanks for your patience. Jen and others have been very helpful as well.

No worries :) HTH. I'm not doing anything else lol. So, might as well help someone.

Speedy Gonzales
19-02-2007, 09:10 PM
Good work as well Speedy with the assistance. :)

Thanx Jen :)

Strommer
19-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Now that you had a taste of it, how long will it be before you decide to assembly a new PC completely from scratch for yourself? :p

This thought did cross my mind. ;)

But is it really that much cheaper to build a pc yourself?
Prices seem so low these days and they come with the OS installed and a warranty.

What is more likely is for me to fix a friend's pc or to upgrade someone's pc that has a blown hd, or needing more RAM, etc.

I have put in modems and a CD Writer (in other's pc's) but if I did anything major I think I would have them beside me, maybe even getting them to unscrew things, etc. That way if it blows up :lol: they will be part of the blame.

Joking aside, this truly has been a great learning experience for me. Surely Speedy, GF, Metla, et. al., could have upgraded this office pc blindfolded with one arm tied behing their back, in about an hour or less. I decided to take it slow and careful (and had other non-pc projects to do at the same time).

Everyone who posted on my 2 threads have been terrific. With over 800 page views (not counting my other thread preceeding this one) surely other novices have learned a few things.

Strommer
19-02-2007, 10:11 PM
SP2 only really plays up if there's Spyware/malware on a system, and u dont get rid of it, BEFORE u install SP2.Dont know if you'll be updating this system, BUT quite a few updates/fixes require SP2.

What I may do is to make an Acronis Image, then install SP2.
Not sure if a simple WinXP System Restore or Uninstall would get rid of SP2 and back track to where it is now, so Acronis would solve that.

Speedy Gonzales
20-02-2007, 07:50 AM
This thought did cross my mind. ;)

But is it really that much cheaper to build a pc yourself?

Prices seem so low these days and they come with the OS installed and a warranty.

So is a system you make yourself. You still get receipts.

It depends on, what kind of system you build, (of course), on how much it'll cost. Even with known brands like Dell/HP etc, well they usually put a load of crap on their systems (like Nortons, their own kind of software, which can clog up a system).

And make things even slower. At least you can put whatever software u like on it, if u build it, and remove it if you dont like/want it. And it'll still be pretty fast.

Strommer
20-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Finally decided to install WinXP SP2, but cannot find the PCW disk. I have just about every single cover CD/DVD for the last few years but that one. Anyone know what month it was? My guess would be April or July 2006 because I cannot find them.

Speedy Gonzales
20-02-2007, 03:25 PM
Finally decided to install WinXP SP2, but cannot find the PCW disk. I have just about every single cover CD/DVD for the last few years but that one. Anyone know what month it was? My guess would be April or July 2006 because I cannot find them.

Cant help ya on that one, I dont buy PCworld mags.

Jen
20-02-2007, 04:22 PM
This thought did cross my mind. ;)

But is it really that much cheaper to build a pc yourself?
Prices seem so low these days and they come with the OS installed and a warranty.They can be more expensive to build yourself because you get picky on what parts to use in it. But the whole exercise is not to save $, but the satisfaction of researching (and learning at the same time) all the different components and then picking what brands/models you wish to use from an informed decision. I hand-picked every single component in my case (including the case) and never regretted any of the decisions. If you then buy your parts from one or two local suppliers it is easy to return the parts if you have problems.

The only thing that has matched the pure satisfaction of building your own PC and having it boot up for the first time, is building your own operating system from total scratch and having it boot into a full desktop environment for the first time. :)

Strommer
20-02-2007, 05:46 PM
They can be more expensive to build yourself because you get picky on what parts to use in it. But the whole exercise is not to save $, but the satisfaction of researching (and learning at the same time) all the different components and then picking what brands/models you wish to use from an informed decision. I hand-picked every single component in my case (including the case) and never regretted any of the decisions.

So true. Its not all about the total $$ cost.
Sort of like getting veggies out of your own garden rather than the supermarket.

The only thing that has matched the pure satisfaction of building your own PC and having it boot up for the first time, is building your own operating system from total scratch and having it boot into a full desktop environment for the first time.

I must be on another wavelenght here. Your don't happen to be the sister of Linus Torvalds, are you???

Jen
20-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Ah, no :p . Just did a stage one install of Gentoo which is an amazing learning experience. Stage one begins with only the basic files to bootstrap the PC and you take it from there to download and compile every file, service or application you choose to have on your computer. :)

Strommer
20-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Speedy - BTW, regarding USB 2.0... I read the it wrong when I was loading the drivers from the mobo CD. The instructions in the text file was for Win2000. Re-reading the instructions today I believe it said SP1 was OK for USB 2.0. In any case the transfer rate using a USB mem stick is fine.

Speedy Gonzales
21-02-2007, 08:05 AM
Speedy - BTW, regarding USB 2.0... I read the it wrong when I was loading the drivers from the mobo CD. The instructions in the text file was for Win2000. Re-reading the instructions today I believe it said SP1 was OK for USB 2.0. In any case the transfer rate using a USB mem stick is fine.

Yup SP1 or 2 should be fine for USB 2. But it may still pay to update to SP2 since SP1 (updates for it), is no longer supported and the more recent updates, need SP2 installed, before the update will install.

Strommer
21-02-2007, 10:02 AM
A floppy disk came with the mobo, labelled "SiS 964 RAID Installation Disk". Can I ignore this? Isn't RAID for running two hdd's in parallel?

Speedy Gonzales
21-02-2007, 10:47 AM
A floppy disk came with the mobo, labelled "SiS 964 RAID Installation Disk". Can I ignore this? Isn't RAID for running two hdd's in parallel?

Ignore it thats most probably for SATA Raid, unless the mobo supports IDE RAID too. In which case, you'll need 2 IDE or SATA hdd's the same brand and size to work.

And thats usually installed during the install of XP not after.