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Billy T
22-12-2006, 10:11 PM
Hi Team

I am currently assembling a moderately complex report and am staggered by the rapidly escalating size of the file.

At the moment it is just one and a half pages of text including four small JPG images totalling 304KB at source.

The images were processed and annotated in MS Photodraw, reduced in physical and data size, then inserted into the document using Paste Special>Picture, which MS claims to give the smallest resultant file size.

I looked a few minutes ago and the file was a staggering 6,267KB! I have shuffled the images around a few times and removed and reinserted for editing reasons, but surely this shouldn't create that much dross?

I opened a new Word Doc then copied and pasted the contents of the monster, and the file size immediately shrank to 2,186KB, which still seems far too big but is a vast improvement.

A blank doc starts at 19KB so even allowing for various overheads (and there is no special formatting going on) IMHO the file should not exceed 500KB or so.

I did a test and deleted all of the content of a copy of the huge doc, and it dropped in size but was still multiple MB. This for a blank page. :eek:

I opened another blank page (19KB) pasted in a 72KB image and the end result was 459KB (19 +72 = 459, I wish my bank accrued my deposits like that!) I dragged the image to 25% of its original size and the file increased by 21KB. I then deleted the image completely and the file size dropped to just 469KB.

I saved the 2,168KB file as RTF, and it jumped to 11,850KB, then I saved the same file as WP 5.1 and it dropped to 809KB, which seems about right to me. I then saved it back as a Word doc and it climbed back up to 2,185KB, a whole KB smaller than the original!

What on earth is going on here?

Please don't bother simply posting messages slagging MS, it seems clear enough that it is a code problem or some such in Word 2000. An explanation and possibly a solution if such exists would be much more helpful to me right now.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :confused:

zqwerty
22-12-2006, 10:36 PM
A while since I have used Word and it is on my old computer but what I remember is that one should import pictures rather than copy/paste them into a Word doc.

Look for something like "import" on one of the sections on the Word menu bar.

If you are intending to print the doc and if you have indicated that to Photodraw it will be upping the dpi in an attempt to make it correct for printing.

winmacguy
23-12-2006, 06:43 AM
If you want to minimise your problems and frustration when creating a word doc keep it to text only with NO images and very limited formating. All I can say is if I had a choice of Word, Quark, InDesign or Freehand for my next formated document with imported images my choice would be either of the latter 2 with Quark if I had to. I would touch Word with a 40 ft barge pole and a gun to my head for formated docs. It is the most annoying pain the a**. Recently I was involved with editing and formating a number of fairly complex forms and docs for printing and internal intranet use for a large well known client who refused to use html formated docs on their intranet because the would not work...go figure. All I can say is that the whole process was a right royal Pain in the A**!

My advice: go with a program that is best suited to the task. For what it is worth, my co-worker who has many more years of experience than myself in the design profession had several frustrating months learning how to set up formated Word docs from scratch.

FoxyMX
23-12-2006, 08:17 AM
Billy, what happens if you copy and paste just the text into a new Word document without the images? I assume that the text itself isn't highly formatted?

I remember having a similar issue a few years back but I can't remember the explanation for it now, unfortunately. I do remember that the more the document was formatted the larger the file size got. It also has something to do with how the images are imported into Word, as zquerty says, but again, I can't remember the recommended method. Pretty sure I asked here about it but search only goes back two years so it has probably vanished into the cybersphere by now.

winmacguy, Billy specifically mentioned that he wasn't interested in opinions on what people thought of Word or what program he should be using.

Edit: This page (http://www.officearticles.com/word/avoid_document_corruption_and_bloating_in_microsof t_word.htm) might help.

pctek
23-12-2006, 08:31 AM
Yes, insert the pic, don't paste.

A long time ago when Word viruses where all the rage, a way to tell if you had one (without an AV) was if the file size suddenly got bigger.

Billy T
23-12-2006, 11:06 AM
Winmacguy: Foxy's post sums it up much more politely than I might have done. Word gives me no problems at all, except when I need to do a particularly long report AND file size is an issue. If file size isn't an issue it doesn't matter a toss to me how big it gets.

Moving on, I have tried "importing" pictures and yes, that does give a significantly smaller file size. One pix in a blank doc is 91KB and 2 pix makes it 161KB, but I find it much harder to position images exactly how I want them using that method. I am not a Word maven so some of the subtleties may escape me, but "Paste Special" give infinite control over positioning and if the Alt key is held down while dragging it is even more precise. The latter tip works in many other programs as well.

File size with text only is normal & Normal.dot is OK as well. At the moment I am splitting the doc into three parts, main text and two appendices which will give me three manageable sized documents for emailing.

Further constructive comments would be welcomed.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

A Mac will never appear in my office until, or unless, my cold dead fingers have been prised off my PC.

winmacguy
23-12-2006, 11:31 AM
My apologies for that Billy T, I do use OpenOffice for simple docs periodically rather than word. Being a designer I word have to say that for formating or designing any decent sort of layout I prefer to use industry standard software and in so doing probably look down on Word mainly because it tries to do more than it was designed for and it doesn't tend to do that very well, Excel on the other hand despite being bloated, I respect.

I hope you solve your image and document size issues. As an affordable alternative you might want to give MS Desktop Publisher a try ( I cringe as a suggest it) I understand it is better suited to more complexly formated docs/layouts which is great for the user (less frustration) at it doesn't cost the earth. Just don't send a MS Publisher file to a commercial printer.

Unfortunately I can be a bit opinionated at times although I do endeavour to mean well it does come across as offensive.:badpc:

PS: I just noticed your signature ;)

zqwerty
23-12-2006, 11:56 AM
As I remember, once you have inserted the picture/s into the doc, right click the pic and you will get a box with plenty of options to left/right/centre allign as well as wrapping and a few other pic/text integration features I can't remember.

I seem to remember that you can also lock the position of the pic which is a good idea.

IMHO Freehand is the best for doing this but a reasonably steep learning curve.

winmacguy
23-12-2006, 12:03 PM
IMHO Freehand is the best for doing this but a reasonably steep learning curve.

Amen to that!
On PC or Mac. I became a recent FreehandMX convert from Illustrator about 4 months ago. Despite the learning curve it is well worth it in the end.

Billy T
23-12-2006, 03:28 PM
As I remember, once you have inserted the picture/s into the doc, right click the pic and you will get a box with plenty of options to left/right/centre align as well as wrapping and a few other pic/text integration features I can't remember.
Nope, no options appear on a right click, however I have negotiated an equitable truce between flexibility and file sizes that will let me get the job done.

Images that are difficult to place get paste-specialed, and those that fit easily are inserted. It works out that a little over 60% can be inserted, and that's enough to keep things reasonable and to hold my blood-pressure down.

Now, where did I leave my happy pills? :confused:

Thanks for the help, and Merry Christmas to all.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :thumbs:

Dreamboat
24-12-2006, 03:04 AM
Hi, Billy. Here's some tips:
--don't resize AFTER inserting (Word keeps BOTH original and resized graphics!)
--right-click and format picture, then layout tab. I always use inline with text.
--I always paste special as a jpg if possible
--as my article says: save as rtf, close, reopen and save as Word. THEN check the size. RTF will be large, but when back in Word again it should be smaller.

Billy T
24-12-2006, 06:51 AM
--as my article says: save as rtf, close, reopen and save as Word. THEN check the size. RTF will be large, but when back in Word again it should be smaller.
Hi Dreamboat.

Where can I find your article? It sounds like it may have some more useful tips in it. I wasn't aware that Word actually saved both the original and the resized image (why for heavens sakes?) but I had guessed that the original image data and other unwanted dross was staying in the file, hence the evolution of my "copy and paste into new doc" technique.

I tried the doc>rtf>doc switcheroo but it only took 21kb off a 3361kb doc. That had been 6250kb doc before I copied and pasted it into a new Word doc so maybe there wasn't much fat left to shed.

Seems to me that there are several techniques required to be applied sequentially to obtain best results, and resizing to the required dimensions before pasting or inserting is one of the key requirements.

I have been reducing image sizes (in kb) by resetting resolution and adjusting compression in Photodraw, which has given me good image quality, but perhaps I should also befinishing off by setting the required dimensions. The key parameter for me is image height because I often insert images side by side, and they are technical photos so definition is important, especially when printed in monochrome. My biggest problem (other than file size) has been getting consistent resolution. Small file size usually meant poor resolution, but moving to Photodraw seems to have fixed that.

What hurts most is that saving as WordPerfect produces a sub-MB file with no apparent loss of quality. I haven't seen the end result myself, but I've sent WP versions of large docs to the US without complaint. Unfortunately it reverts to its bloated size when converted back to Word. :mad:

Cheers

Billy *<8-{)=

Edit: I don't seem to have the right-click options you mention either. This is Word 2000 so that could be a clue.

Jen
24-12-2006, 07:06 AM
Where can I find your article? It sounds like it may have some more useful tips in it. The link that FoxyMX gave is the article in question.

FoxyMX
24-12-2006, 08:29 AM
The link that FoxyMX gave is the article in question.

I had been wondering whether Billy actually went to that page or not. Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

I guess next time I had better highlight the link to make it more obvious. :nerd:

Billy T
24-12-2006, 09:12 AM
I had been wondering whether Billy actually went to that page or not. Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

You are right Foxy, gosh darn dang it! I missed that link. :mad:

I have been working long hours for weeks and (self imposed) deadline after deadline has slipped by while I struggled with a variety of issues related to this project. Plus of course the daily minutae, the never-ending telephone interruptions, plus other clients wanting "must be done now or never" work whom I could charge 3 arms and 4 legs for the privilege of queue jumping, and the requirements of Mrs T, which of course have top priority at all times. :rolleyes:

On looking at it though, I fear that my venerable old Word 2000 may not be able to supply all the purported benefits so I'll have to investigate further once this job is finished. One thing I would never have thought of was composing images in Powerpoint then transferring to Word. I've cross-bred from Publisher, Works, Paint, Irfanview and various other imaging programs, but never Powerpoint.

Cheers

Billy *<8-{)=

Ho Ho Ho (the three wise ladies, I couldn't find a virgin)

Merry Christmas