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View Full Version : Best Self-Priming Exterior Acrylic?



pctek
28-09-2006, 09:09 PM
Solarguard
or
British Paints 4 Seasons Exterior?

Both are self-priming and both have a 10yr guarantee. This is going on weatherboards.

Can't decide. The 4 Seasons is cheaper....

bob_doe_nz
28-09-2006, 09:37 PM
Ask the supplier if they have done any recent houses. Go to them and see what they look like. As they say, the proof is in the pudding

Poppa John
28-09-2006, 09:41 PM
Also ask the supplier if it will stand up to sub-zero temperatures for six months of the year, in the deep south !!!! PJ :) :)

Greg
28-09-2006, 09:47 PM
British Paints have an excellent reputation.

somebody
28-09-2006, 09:56 PM
I've personally painted a house with British Paints 4 Seasons Acrylic, and it's been great. This was done in late 2002, and to this date the paint is still showing no signs of peeling or anything like that (as one would hope). The exterior is stucco finished, and already had some existing (peeling) paint on it.

A previous house we painted with Dulux (the equivalent of their X10 product, but whatever it was called back in 1996), and that lasted very well too.

One thing I would like to say is to make sure you use the proper paint for the job. We were cheap, and bought some British Paints Steelite (designed for corrugated iron roofs), to do our steel guttering and our timber windows. The paint on the windows is already beginning to peel off, 4 years down the track, while the timber trim at the bottom of the window which we painted with British Paints 4 Seasons is still stuck solidly.

godfather
28-09-2006, 10:21 PM
The best I have used is Dulux Timbacryl, or Resene Lustacryl, followed by Wattle Solarguard, then Taubmans Timbertop. British Paints follows those.

The above are all semigloss.

If you want gloss, go for Wattle Solarguard, but I believe the semigloss will last better.

Have used all the above, and Timbacryl has done 13 years with no flaking or peeling, just a clean down and another coat or two.

There is an exact corelation between price and quality, and when you have a very large 1890's weatherboaed villa, you want quality.

I researched this in the 90's and opted for Timbacryl, but used other brands in some places. The British Paints had a much shorter life.

SolMiester
29-09-2006, 12:09 AM
Godfather, I think the gloss will last longer than the semi, as it will relect the heat/sun better. I agree with your list of paint order though. Did some commercial painting for a number of years with the old man.

mikebartnz
29-09-2006, 01:59 AM
Agrippa paints Thunder Gloss is the best paint for its price. I get it for just under $90 a 10Ltr. Lasts very well. Very similar to Solarguard. It is limited to tints from a white base though.

beama
29-09-2006, 07:44 AM
Ring a local painter and ask them, they know the climate and which paint preforms best in those conditions.

When you are finished I have house that needs painting too ;)

pctek
29-09-2006, 08:50 AM
Budget is a consideration which is why we want to get it right first.
Can't afford to fix it. But we have hestitated - as Godfather says, quality is important too. Don't want cheap and lasts 5 minutes either. Our weatherboards are in good condition and we'd like to keep them that way.

Very interesting comments so far. Husband wanted to do it in gloss, I have no idea....is it usual to have gloss outside? Does it matter?

One other thing, "everyone says" the windows themselves should be done in oil based. However I read a datasheet on BPs website last night and it says no, use acrylic - it is less subject to peeling and flaking later.
I notice everyones windows round here are peeley, including ours.

It did say open and shut them often for a bit afterwards to prevent sticking, which is one reason we were originally going to do the windows in oil.

Rob99
29-09-2006, 09:32 AM
The main differience is the thickness of each coat when dried fully. You will find Dulux, Resene etc will be more durable because you will have more paint on your house when dried.

The cheaper brands when dried will leave a thinner coat on the house, which means you are left with a less durable finish, or meaning a few extra coats are required cancelling out any cost saving.

somebody
29-09-2006, 09:44 AM
Most exterior paints tend to be gloss, regardless of brand. Semi-gloss is also available in most brands, but not as popular.

In terms of windows, it is absolutely essential that you prepare them properly. Buy a heat gun, and strip all the paint off them, sand smooth, and then prime/paint properly.

smithie 38
29-09-2006, 10:32 AM
I agree with somebody - prepare windows, or any area for that matter, properly prior to painting. I am doing my windows at the moment and a painter friend advised using Resene paint. There are two, Resene Enamacryl (Gloss) or Lustacryl (Semi-Gloss) - waterbased enamels. These products perform like solventbased paints with the added benefits of non-yellowing, fast drying and low odour when compared to solventbased paint. I am using Lustacryl inside and out on my windows and I am very impressed with the finish provided. As for lasting qualities, well time will tell, but I hope I dont have to do them for another 10 years.

Good preparation, good undercoat and two top coats is the answer.

godfather
29-09-2006, 10:32 AM
Semi-gloss does need an occasional hose-down (but in Southland that's a natural event anyway?) to keep it clean, as compared to gloss.

The painters (several, and all very experienced) that I consulted all had the same view that the semigloss tended to last longer in this area. One commented "the day they put the high gloss into paint was the day they stuffed it", (words paraphrased for a family forum). Also advised strongly against spraying, as unless followed with a brushing it tends to fall off after a few years.

All I can say is that at 13 years all that was needed was a good brush down and a couple of more coats, but it would still have been OK for another year or two. No other surface prep was needed. So I was very happy with the choice made years ago. I used a hot air gun originally to take the (many layers of) paint back to bare (rimu) weatherboards.

Now using it again on the country cottage, as past experience has shown it to be good. The cottage was painted with Resene gloss, which now needs attention after 10 years.

Your main concern is that the temperature must be above 10C for painting. That probably limits you to about 3 days in the year in Invertartica?

somebody
29-09-2006, 12:47 PM
I would like to emphasise how effective a heat-gun can be to strip paint. I have used chemical strippers, sanding, and the heat-gun technique before, and I have to say that without a doubt, the heat-gun is the quickest, easiest, and (perceived to be) the safest.

Chemical strippers get quite dodgy with fumes, sometimes need extra time to "dry out" of the timber, otherwise painting over the top will cause problems. Sanding takes forever, not to mention constantly clogging the sandpaper, and the dust which is generated. We used a cheap Black&Decker heat gun (I think about $60 or thereabouts), which would soften the paint within seconds, and could be scraped off very easily with a putty knife - taking off all layers of old paint. Then a light sanding afterwards does the trick.

pctek
29-09-2006, 12:54 PM
haha funny, 3 days of the year....today is hot and sunny and the other day we had 27 degrees. In the shade.

Anyway Solarguard has won due to being $128.70 for 10L as opposed to Timbacryl at $153.

I'll go with semi-gloss Godfather. After all your house is gorgeous.
I'll come back in 10 years and let you know how its lasted.

I have a heatgun, works well on some paints and not others.
Its very good on stuff that wasn't painted on properly in the first place and paint thats been put over varnish.
Its hopeless on the rest.

We also have a belt sander which is excellent on large flat bits.
The rest is being done with hands and small pieces of sandpaper, and yes we are sanding the windows back. Just not all of the weatherboards.

godfather
29-09-2006, 02:52 PM
Some advice re stripping the paint. A Warehouse 115mm angle grinder and paint stripping disks ($16.90 for 2 disks) makes an amazing job, but not on lead based paint (dust...).

The old lead based paint comes off well with a heat gun, but the fumes....?

Billy T
29-09-2006, 05:37 PM
I did a full strip back and primed with a oil based paint for better keying to the substrate. Then I finish coated with British Paints acrylic in a "darker than ivory" colour. That was still going strong after 12 years, even of the northern side of the house when Mrs T decided a change of colour was needed. She wanted a white house again!

I tried Wattle Solaguard and it was like painting with milk, it gave no coverage and was going to need 3 coats at least so I sent it back and got Resene instead. That is now a few years down the track and still looking good.

I'd be reluctant to put primerless paint onto bare wood, I just don't think the compromise is worth the risk. If the coating fails, you have a huge job ahead to strip it back before you can start again.

Never buy paint on price alone.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Edit: Neighbours across the road have just painted their entire house in 2 coats of black acrylic with minimal prep. I'll bet the northern and north-western walls will need a repaint inside of 5 years! That's if the weatherboards don't warp right off the walls before then.

smithie 38
29-09-2006, 08:20 PM
Godfather - Does the angle grinder and the paint stripping disks do a better and faster job than an orbital sander? Also can the angle grinder "dig in" and cause gouge marks on the weatherboard if not held correctly.

mikebartnz
30-09-2006, 01:52 AM
The painters (several, and all very experienced) that I consulted all had the same view that the semigloss tended to last longer in this area. One commented "the day they put the high gloss into paint was the day they stuffed it", (words paraphrased for a family forum). Also advised strongly against spraying, as unless followed with a brushing it tends to fall off after a few years.

Your main concern is that the temperature must be above 10C for painting. That probably limits you to about 3 days in the year in Invertartica?
I find the above in bold amusing because most of the finishing paints 30 > 40 years ago after lead based were all Gloss.
When it comes to temperature Resene have a waterbased paint out that you can go down to 5C but remember that that is for the drying time as well. The drying time thing applies to most waterbased paints.
I am a great fan of Thunder Gloss for the walls and Resene APU and Enamacryl for the windows and doors. Using Enamacryl as against oiled based paints the doors and windows don't stick as much. When using Enamacryl the use of some hot weather thinners can often give a better flow to the paint.

mikebartnz
30-09-2006, 02:09 AM
I'd be reluctant to put primerless paint onto bare wood, I just don't think the compromise is worth the risk. If the coating fails, you have a huge job ahead to strip it back before you can start again.

Never buy paint on price alone.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Edit: Neighbours across the road have just painted their entire house in 2 coats of black acrylic with minimal prep. I'll bet the northern and north-western walls will need a repaint inside of 5 years! That's if the weatherboards don't warp right off the walls before then.
Thunder Gloss all in one paint is perfectly alright without a seperate primer and for iron roofs Flakaproof (which is enhanced with linseed oil) is a great one paint roof paint. What I like about them is that I don't end up with a whole lot of part pails of paint left over in the same way as you do when using two paint types as you can use left over colours as a primer on the next job.
I can't see the neighbours paint job lasting for 2 years. It will not even last 2 months if there was any oil based underneath as it will just bubble as soon as the sun hits it. Are they trying to cook their house.

pctek
30-09-2006, 09:00 AM
We are stripping the windows back. Not the weatherboards. Except a few spots that are peeling.

Billy T
30-09-2006, 01:58 PM
When stripping windows and/or window frames I use a hot air gun and a silicon-carbide scraper. I use Linbide blades in a Sandvik scraper and it produces a finish that is virtually paint-ready. best investments I ever made!

To avoid cracking the glass I have a piece of aluminum sheet that I use as a screen to keep the heat away from the glass so that I can get the paint bubbling. It also works well for cooking old putty to make it easier to remove.

I have tried the rotary disks as suggested by GF but found clogging was a major problem on acrylics and poisonous dust containment was the problem with oil-based paints. Gouging was also an issue so you had to take extra care.

I finally used heaps of heat plus the scraper and could remove paint faster than the sander if you also allow for the reduced cleanup time. A random orbit sander finished the job.

This was all a "back to the wood" job for badly deteriorated paint and on the southern side I didn't need to do much more than wash it down and do a light run-over with the random orbit sander. I also tried a belt sander but that was no use either.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Murray P
30-09-2006, 07:45 PM
Edit: Neighbours across the road have just painted their entire house in 2 coats of black acrylic with minimal prep. I'll bet the northern and north-western walls will need a repaint inside of 5 years! That's if the weatherboards don't warp right off the walls before then.
__________________

It'll be lucky to last that long Billy if it is black or close to it, low relflective index paints are very susceptible to UV and movement through heat and also put the acid on the sbstrate due to increased heat. The warranty on that colour will be severely reduced.

Goddy, it's a rule of thumb that the higher the % of gloss in a paint/coating, the more durable it is. Unforttunately, I spend most of my investigating and writing remedial works specs fo correcting the mistakes of ingnorant blowhard tradesmen.

PCtek, what timber are the weatherboards. Cedar, redwood and totara require particular primers/sealers. Oil based or the new breed of "enamacryls" are best on opening sashes and frames, basically due to the strong attraction acrylics have to themselves they tend to stick together like the proverbial.

As always, preparation is king. A good paint will not make up entirely what is lost in poor prep.

pctek
30-09-2006, 08:42 PM
PCtek, what timber are the weatherboards. Cedar, redwood and totara require particular primers/sealers. Oil based or the new breed of "enamacryls" are best on opening sashes and frames, basically due to the strong attraction acrylics have to themselves they tend to stick together like the proverbial.

As always, preparation is king. A good paint will not make up entirely what is lost in poor prep.

Uh, yeah. The house was built sometime in the first half of the1920s.
I doubt its any of the 3 you mentioned.
Nor is it pine.
Yeah I know about the sticking thing. But everything I've read suggests enamels don't last as well as acrylics and judging by the state of most windows including ours round here, that seems to be right.

We know about the prep, the windows have to come back to wood, they are the worst. The boards are mostly ok, just a few odd patchy spots.

Murray P
03-10-2006, 11:56 PM
The weather boards could be any of the above mentioned or most likely, matai or rimu with an outside chance of kauri or some other more easily procurred local native, such as kahikatea. Matai, IIRC, requires a sealer/primer.

The window sashes are likely to be cedar/redwood, totara (NZ's equivalent) or rimu. Cedar and redwood can be identified by the more prominent late wood bands, totara is fine grained and even coloured (darkish, sometimes reddish, brown).

One thing oil based paints do for old dry timber, is replenish it by replacing lost oils, probably more important in respect of windows and other areas where movement and cracking is unsightly and not likely to be taken up by acrylics flexibilty/crack bridging abilities (i.e. narrower widths, where joints are relatively close). Acrylic has no ability that I know of to do this.

Be very careful removing old lead based paints, especially if you have young ones around. Wear decent face masks, not those pissy paper ones that give piece of mind but little else. Bag and Dispose of coveralls after the job is done. Put down disposable drop clothes to collect any paint/paint particles as the lead will not break down in the soil. It's also great stuff for making pets seriously ill.

Have fun.

pctek
04-10-2006, 07:39 AM
We tried the heat gun on the windows, worked well, finished with sanding. Primed first.

It looks like Oak (several neighbours thought Oak too) except the grain is wrong, the grain is more like Pine. Which it also isn't. Not cedar or redwood.

The wood is in excellent condition, it was just the rubbish paint job from last time - some windows have also been painted shut. We freed them and took them down to do it properly.

Laura
04-10-2006, 11:43 AM
Now while you "timber people" are here - can I sneak in an allied question?

Suggestions, please, for preserving very old & very cruddy window surrounds & sills in a pioneer cottage - but not an expensive restoration...
The wood itself is "various" & was probably low-grade even when new more than 100 years ago. Freezing Central Otago winters & sizzling summers have removed almost all the paint. It is bleached grey.
Indeed, it's so tinder-dry with such deep cracking that replacement would be the obvious choice if it was a newer building. But as its construction method is now part of history, that's not an option.

No doubt expensive oils would work wonders. How about cheap ones?
If I say "cooking oil" do you recoil in horror?

Metla
04-10-2006, 12:00 PM
A match
Insurance
New house.

Laura
04-10-2006, 01:22 PM
A match
Insurance
New house.

Haha..
Luckily this one's not the actual residence (Cottage alongside) or I might be tempted.
This one shows what resourceful gold miners could do before building suppliers existed...

Billy T
04-10-2006, 03:21 PM
No doubt expensive oils would work wonders. How about cheap ones? If I say "cooking oil" do you recoil in horror?

:horrified I'm still recoiling :horrified Why on earth would you use that muck on a windowsill?

The best product is Epiglass Everdure, a two pack epoxy that will seal and harden any deteriorated wood. I restored badly rotted cedar french doors by gouging out the worst of the rot, sealing with Everdure then filling with builders' bog. I used two four litre tins of bog on the doors plus several windows, but that was 18 years ago and they are still as good as the day I finished them. Better actually, they can never rot!

Everdure is still on the market, but it is quite expensive. There's bound to be an (inferior) equivalent as well, just look in a hardware or marine hardware store for Everdure or something similar. You have to buy thinners/brush cleaner as well though, or look and see how many brushes you can buy from the $2 shop for the price of the thinners.

Seal, fill, paint. If you don't want to paint, just seal, fill the cracks with coloured wood filler, sand and seal again. You'll be probably be dead before it needs its next treatment.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Billy T
04-10-2006, 03:30 PM
Inexplicable double post. :confused:

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Laura
04-10-2006, 08:25 PM
Why would I use cooking oil, Billy?

Easy - Because I've got 3 litres of canola that's surplus to requirements, that's why.
I thought it'd do no harm - even if not much good?
And it's cheap. And otherwise it'll just get thrown out.
But you've reacted in the way I suspected you purists might, alas.

As for your suggestion - it sounds very classy.
In fact, it could be a bit too classy for what's now a historic building. Basic though it is, there's charm in its simplicity.
Filling with wood filler takes it a step too far into modernity.
I want to preserve it as is - not tart it up to look 20th century.

I guess cheap & easy isn't going to cut it, eh? .

Billy T
04-10-2006, 09:31 PM
I'm no purist Laura, I'm a "do it once and do it right" type because i'm fundamentally lazy and don't want to revisit a job every few years.

By all means use the canola oil, but you'll probably be buying oil for years to come to keep it from deteriorating.

Give it a try, but if it doesn't work you may have to let it weather for a few seasons before you can try anything else.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Laura
04-10-2006, 10:02 PM
Well, it was just as a stopgap I was thinking, Billy..
( Can't see anything full-scale happening for a good while - what with more urgent tasks to do) but am wondering now about your prediction.

How likely is it to hamper future efforts?
Any additive to help it soak in better?

Billy T
05-10-2006, 10:58 PM
How likely is it to hamper future efforts? Any additive to help it soak in better?
You probably wouldn't be able to get paint to stick until it was weathered back to dry wood. A good wash down with turps followed by a heavy-duty oil-based primer might get you back in action though, if you wanted to do it sooner.

If you have to oil it, why not use linseed oil. I'm not sure whether you'd need raw or boiled, but I think the latter. In my mind the key thing to do is protect it from further weathering until you have the time, patience and money to do something about it. Keep the canola for cooking, or use it to fill your whale-oil lamps.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Roy Hollick
14-10-2006, 03:25 PM
hi all
Im new to all
The best product in my opinion is Taubmans Sunproof 12 year guarantee
Can be applied in temps down to 5 deg C.
It is self priming but the best jobs are always primed first to suit the substrait (the surface)
My expierence is 19 years working with and selling Wattyl, Taubmans, Dulux and British Paints . I now own my own paint and decor store in Chch called Colourplus Christchurch.

Cheers Roy

Roy Hollick
14-10-2006, 03:28 PM
You wouldnt use raw as it stays tacky and doesn't contain driers as in the boiled linseed oil. Raw is for cricket bats.

pctek
14-10-2006, 03:54 PM
We have done one half of one wall.
Primed the bare parts, Solarguard on the rest. 2 coats. Looks good.
As I have said, I'll let you all know in 10 years or so........

Its using way more then its says coverage is...but we expected that.
I have paint in my hair, paint between the toes.....the cat has developed spots.

I got the Solarguard at...Colourplus! But not in Ch/ch...

godfather
14-10-2006, 09:24 PM
I will put this thread on my watch list for 10 years time, or more.

I find 3 coats minimum are required.

The paint is meant to be applied to the house, not the body or the pets...