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opmclimited
24-08-2006, 11:42 AM
As of Tuesday night / Wednesday morning, it appears as though Xtra has blocked our hosting services for their customers.

We have a hosting facility in Prague, in the Czech Republic and have about half our customers using Xtra as their ISP. Then overnight those Xtra customers could no longer use our services. The reason?

Well, after speaking with Xtra's Complex Technical Team we are now at the stage where their DNS people are "looking into it". If you do a dig on our domains at Xtra, they all come up blank - error - no result.

Try it yourself: "dig @alien.xtra.co.nz ns1.jtw.cz" or "dig @alien.xtra.co.nz ns2.jtw.cz" (our name servers). Or try our website "dig @alien.xtra.co.nz www.opmc.co.nz" and you will get the same result.

I know of no-one else who has been "removed" or blocked in this way. Xtra originally told us it might be our problem, but after seeing for example that all major ISP's DNS servers in NZ find the information without a problem, it has led me to believe - as also suggested by Xtra's CTS team this morning - that it is Xtra's fault. They cannot tell me what the problem is yet, but they have said there is absolutely no reason why this should be happening.

I am now considering this as potentially anti-competitive behaviour by Telecom, as it is affecting our customers who are on Xtra, Xtra has not fixed it and and looks as though we are providing a bad service!

Does anyone have any ideas/thoughts about this? I have had a few technies on the case, but they just come back to the same conclusion - it's a problem at Xtra's end. We've just updated the SERIAL for our DNS servers, as Xtra thinks that might help, but other than that we haven't made any changes at our end for at least a month.

Cheers

rogerp
24-08-2006, 11:46 AM
I had an exact problem with my website when I had it hosted in the USA, and was unable to acccess my website through XTRA for a week, due to problems they had with their carriers. Due to this, I moved the website to a NZ hosting company. Far less trouble. I would recommend hosting your website in NZ if it is critical for your business.

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Thanks for your reply. It is actually an entire hosting facility that has been removed from the Xtra DNS system. We host a number of websites, and all of them have been knocked off the grid. Any Xtra customer can no longer user our services essentially, website or e-mail or otherwise!

No other NZ company is having these issues, just Xtra. And they are only having issues with us, no-one else by the sounds of things.

rogerp
24-08-2006, 12:07 PM
Yes same situation, it was the entire NAC datacentre in New York that was unable to be accessed by anyone who used Xtra as their ISP. They evetually received enough compliants from other clients unable to access the NAC datacentre, that eventually the issue was fixed, however they never admited to any problem, but 'they were aware of it'. You will also find that some other ISPs that xtra resell to are also affected. My website is critical for my business so I decided that the small amount I was saving on hosting it in the US, that I would get a dedicated server setup in the Maxnet datacentre in Auckland and managed by a NZ web host. So far in 2 years I have not had any similar problems.

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 12:09 PM
Thanks for that - very interesting. That sounds good, but we do go through 50-100TB a month of traffic so I'm not sure whether little old NZ would be affordable for us! I might check out pricing, however.

superuser
24-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Probably just a routing problem rather than Xtra actively blocking you. This can be an occasional problem with servers hosted offshore. Do a tracert and see where the connection is dropped, may not be Xtra.

Czech Republic sounds like a completly unintuitive place for NZ websites to be hosted though to be honest.

stu161204
24-08-2006, 12:57 PM
Thanks for that - very interesting. That sounds good, but we do go through 50-100TB a month of traffic

Donít you mean GB? As I have yet to seen a web host that offers TB of traffic.

stu161204
24-08-2006, 12:58 PM
Probably just a routing problem rather than Xtra actively blocking you. This can be an occasional problem with servers hosted offshore. Do a tracert and see where the connection is dropped, may not be Xtra.

Czech Republic sounds like a completly unintuitive place for NZ websites to be hosted though to be honest.

Good point you have there superuser :)

stu161204
24-08-2006, 01:04 PM
opmclimited, do you know if any of the users trying to access your site have the 222.15*.***.*** ip address? As if your web host has had a DoDs attack they may have blocked the 222 ip address range.

stu161204
24-08-2006, 01:11 PM
One more thought on this:

For about a week or two Xtra users could not access www.ihug.co.nz website, but it looks like thatís now been fixed.

Also take a look at these posts:

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=4039&LastModified=4675586324689937801

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=3975&LastModified=4675582290475239622

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=4023

As a few of those people are having the same problem as you.

I Hope this helps

martnz
24-08-2006, 01:22 PM
Hi Guys,

When I search for: opmc.co.nz

Using: http://www.dnsstuff.com/

I get:
No A records exist for opmc.co.nz. [Neg TTL=21600 seconds]

Details:
ns1.jtw.cz. (an authoritative nameserver for opmc.co.nz.) says that there are no A records for opmc.co.nz.
The E-mail address in charge of the opmc.co.nz. zone is: admins@jtw.cz.

This search seems to have found it's way to the nameserver OK - perhaps this means the issue lies further afield than Xtra?

Regards, Martnz

stu161204
24-08-2006, 01:53 PM
Martnz, which test did you use?

martnz
24-08-2006, 02:07 PM
Hi Stu...

"DNS Lookup" at top right of page.

The default "A" record is (as I understand this internet stuff...) the one that converts/resolves the "name" address keyed into a browser into the correct numeric address that is actually used. At the risk of teaching everyones grandmother's etc, if this is missing, similar effect to finding someone's name in the ph book, but with no number listed!

Regards, Martnz

superuser
24-08-2006, 02:58 PM
Cant tracert the domain either:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch?ip=opmc.co.nz

Same for the domain that provides the opmc.co.nz nameservers:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch?ip=jtw.cz

This is not an Xtra issue.

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 03:16 PM
Probably just a routing problem rather than Xtra actively blocking you. This can be an occasional problem with servers hosted offshore. Do a tracert and see where the connection is dropped, may not be Xtra.

Czech Republic sounds like a completly unintuitive place for NZ websites to be hosted though to be honest.

haha, yes Czech Republic does sound a bit unintuitive, but we have a sister company over there and have not had a problem since day one - everything goes smoothly every day, and we've certainly had a fraction of the problems of Xtra and Paradise in the last few years. In saying that of course we do not have 100,000's of customers so it's a bit easier to maintain :) and our customers wouldn't know the difference where it is located as e-mails go in and out just as quick as an NZ service.

Thanks for the ideas about a routing problem, etc, this is something I certainly have never encountered but it makes sense.

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Donít you mean GB? As I have yet to seen a web host that offers TB of traffic.
This is the traffic that our customers chew through. Whether it's e-mail, changing their websites or customers viewing their websites. We have a number of customers who have their own servers so it adds up to quite a lot of traffic. 5GB a month per customer would be pretty standard.

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 03:23 PM
opmclimited, do you know if any of the users trying to access your site have the 222.15*.***.*** ip address? As if your web host has had a DoDs attack they may have blocked the 222 ip address range.


Thanks, this is a good point and I checked one of them remotely and yes they do have this IP. Could you tell me why specifically that IP range? It makes sense they could have blocked 222.... but when we have changed customers over to different DNS servers their services start working immediately. So would that go against the IP address blocking theory? Ie, they have different DNS, but their IP address remains the same, and they can access all our services fine? I am using Paradise Cable here and I am having no problems + I can do a tracert - don't know whether that is good or not....

3 218.101.61.50 (218.101.61.50) 16.651 ms 10.463 ms 10.256 ms
4 218.101.61.45 (218.101.61.45) 21.701 ms 20.173 ms 21.682 ms
5 jcore2-ge-0-2-0-927-acld.auckland.clix.net.nz (218.101.61.14) 21.872 ms 21.607 ms 24.350 ms
6 ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstraclear.net (203.98.50.251) 20.645 ms 22.382 ms 31.922 ms
7 so.jb.wils.telstraclear.net (203.98.42.66) 148.018 ms 147.931 ms 145.647 ms
8 gigabitethernet3-0.gw1.lax1.alter.net (157.130.245.21) 147.684 ms 145.530 ms 149.403 ms
9 0.so-0-0-0.xl1.lax1.alter.net (152.63.112.218) 146.866 ms 150.447 ms 148.165 ms
10 0.so-7-0-0.xl1.sjc1.alter.net (152.63.55.106) 178.581 ms 157.099 ms 156.998 ms
11 0.so-6-0-0.gw6.sjc1.alter.net (152.63.56.173) 165.511 ms 163.047 ms 168.683 ms
12 teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net (63.65.130.46) 209.296 ms 212.204 ms 214.718 ms
13 nyk-bb1-link.telia.net (213.248.80.2) 265.386 ms 256.489 ms 262.144 ms
14 ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.249.248) 343.791 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (213.248.65.97) 319.910 ms ldn-bb1-pos7-1-0.telia.net (213.248.65.89) 312.445 ms
15 hbg-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.249.11) 328.861 ms adm-bb1-pos6-0-0.telia.net (213.248.65.150) 334.114 ms hbg-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.249.11) 342.195 ms
16 prag-b1-pos2-0.telia.net (213.248.65.2) 379.321 ms 388.433 ms 357.783 ms
17 casablanca-101464-prag-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.79.94) 363.322 ms 348.652 ms 356.022 ms
18 casablanca-101464-prag-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.79.94) 361.600 ms 360.137 ms 362.097 ms
19 holly.cas.ip-anywhere.net (217.11.224.239) 343.579 ms gw.jtw.cz (82.208.38.222) 344.987 ms 334.227 ms
20 gw.jtw.cz (82.208.38.222) 328.804 ms 329.650 ms 324.598 ms

opmclimited
24-08-2006, 03:26 PM
One more thought on this:

For about a week or two Xtra users could not access www.ihug.co.nz website, but it looks like thatís now been fixed.

Also take a look at these posts:

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=4039&LastModified=4675586324689937801

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=3975&LastModified=4675582290475239622

http://groups.msn.com/XtraHelp/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=4023

As a few of those people are having the same problem as you.

I Hope this helps


Thanks for this and all the other interesting and helpful messages. However it just adds to the frustration really - half our customers can be brought down because of some error in the pipe somewhere - temporary or not...

rogerp
02-09-2006, 12:00 AM
Did you ever get this fixed?

personthingy
02-09-2006, 01:19 PM
Sounds not unlike the problem webuy.co.nz are/were having with xtra, users of other ISPs saw a growing fast served website, xtra users had issues. IIRC correctly, webuy were hosted on an American server. It seems xtra are getting more and more messed up:(

handya
02-09-2006, 02:49 PM
this offen happens to me, but im not sure if its on my end as i just reset me router SEVERAL times and its ok

i think Xtra should ******* and ***** and then **********

personthingy
02-09-2006, 03:01 PM
For reference:

www.opmc.co.nz

no problems here at telstra-paradise-cable land, this site is loading well, although opmc.co.nz (no "www") can't be found......

Fishy
02-09-2006, 03:03 PM
I'm on xtra and I can see www.opmc.co.nz

stu161204
02-09-2006, 05:05 PM
Same here on Xtra I can see www.opmc.co.nz fine :) Note: you need www to access opmc.co.nz as opmc.co.nz does not work.

opmclimited
03-09-2006, 07:29 PM
Yes, it is now working. After us doing some investigation at our end, and confirming to Telecom that it was in fact absolutely not our fault (they asked us to check if we had blocked them on our firewall (when half our customers use Xtra), the problem magicially fixed itself (.......) about 2 hours after I left that message with their Complex Technical Support team. It was also at that point that I told them our first customer would be leaving us on Tuesday if the problem wasn't resolved.

Advice I received from another message group was that Xtra apparently has some problems. I was told there are multiple choke points between the 3rd party person who was assisting me (overseas) and the Xtra system - most seeming to include "xtra" in the name. They start from "xtra-int.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.245.158]" and go inwards from there.

martnz
03-09-2006, 07:58 PM
Hi Guys,

The test results from a week or so ago via dnsstuff.com indicated the cause was way outside of Xtra, probably relating to an issue with domain name servers at jtw.cz

Regards, Martnz

superuser
03-09-2006, 08:54 PM
Cant tracert the domain either:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch?ip=opmc.co.nz

Same for the domain that provides the opmc.co.nz nameservers:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch?ip=jtw.cz

This is not an Xtra issue.

I am available to consult, although I don't come cheap. :badpc:

personthingy
03-09-2006, 09:02 PM
whats the DNS servers???? i'll try to traceroute them from my telstra connection

opmclimited
05-09-2006, 08:12 AM
Hi Guys,

The test results from a week or so ago via dnsstuff.com indicated the cause was way outside of Xtra, probably relating to an issue with domain name servers at jtw.cz

Regards, Martnz


Hi Martnz, thanks for your comment about that but the reason you're not getting a result is because there is nothing located at "opmc.co.nz". Do the same search but with "www.opmc.co.nz" and you will get an answer.

The cause was with Xtra, and they have admitted this and taken responsibility to fix it. Heck, it "mysteriously" fixed itself two hours after I told them our firewall was not blocking them (and reminded them that every other ISP on earth didn't have the problem). And to answer the other question, our DNS servers are ns1.jtw.cz and ns2.jtw.cz.

For future reference - for the next poor person who has this issue here is what you need to know. Remember, this is for if you have already done testing to determine that your hosted website(s) do not have problems through other DNS servers, and you have the experience to be confident the problem lies with Xtra (ie your customers are with Xtra and they can access other websites that do not go through the same DNS as your websites, but can't access sites through your DNS)...

1. Call Xtra's Complex Technical Team on 0800 268 070.

2. Explain the problem you are having, and that you are aware of it happening to someone else in late August 2006. Tell them that if that is the case that the problem might lie with:

Xtra DNS servers

202.27.184.3
202.27.184.5

Xtra caching servers

202.27.158.40
202.27.156.72

3. Get a case number from them. They might try to do a ping or tracert to your DNS server, and it will probably be fine. This team uses a different DNS than Xtra customers, which explains the problem. What you might suggest is that they do testing through the Xtra DNS servers, then through other IP's. They will find that Xtra's DNS servers have problems, whereas other internal IP's work fine within Telecom. They might then be able to narrow it down to the DNS and caching servers. Note that the next "hop" after the caching / DNS servers is the same computer for all of this Telecom office, so if it works on other Telecom IP's it can be narrowed down to these 4.

4. They will probably tell you they will look into it and call you back. Ask them when they will call you back -what day/time. If they can't commit to that ask them why - you have customers too and you can't help them until Xtra looks into the problem! They might suggest you change the SERIAL on your DNS to effect a change in their system. My experience is that doesn't make a difference to this problem, but is worth a shot anyway.

5. After 24 hours, call them back again. They are open in the weekends.

6. Follow up the issue religiously until it has been fixed. If you feel you are going nowhere, ask to escalate the issue and you might be put through to a senior technician on call.

7. If you are still 100% confident the issue lies with Xtra, I would recommend investigating your options for media coverage of the problem - the issue has happened but if it is not being resolved effectively and the only problem is at their end then there is only one person who can fix it.


In saying that, the Xtra Complex Technical Team was very helpful and I would highly recommend them when you experience this type of issue. Please note that this team is there to help people /businesses who are up on the technology and are experiencing complex networking, etc, problems. If you are not experiencing the issue described above then I would recommend trying the normal 0800 numbers first. They can then direct your problem appropriately where necessary.

Cheers